THE WORD OF GOD IS IRREVOCABLE

[Jerry1023]

O Lord,for ever your word is settle in heaven.psalm 119:89" the bible said in psalm 135:6" whatsoever the Lord pleased,that did he in heaven, and in earth,and we all know that God is not a man that he should lie,numbers 23:19" the question i want to ask and i desire to know more about is,the agreement between God and Abraham,in Genesis 15:13" God said to Abraham,know of a surety that your descendants shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs,and shall serve them,and they shall afflict them,"400" four hundred years."my question base on Genesis 15:13" A friend of mine,invited me to their church revival,the hosting pastor said with confidence and boldness of mind,that the reason why the four hundred years,was estended to 430yrs" was because the children of Israel refuse to pray,at the appointed time and date,to remind God of his promise,infact he said they prayed very late,and at that time,they where no prophet to stand as a mediator,between them and God,that means no prayer no answer,even when God promise to bless us at a particular season,we must remind God of his promise, my question is Do you guys think the pastor is right,Do you guys think what he said is biblical, my bible tells me that in the multitude of counsellors there is safty,your opinion can be of help,that very day i search my bible,to know if what the pastor said is written in the word of God,Acts 17:11" these were more noble than those in thessalonica,in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,and search the scripture daily,whether those things were so,I know and I believed,All Christian Race is based and centre on the word of God,"SCRIPTURE" God bless you all"

[Guest ninhao]

Hello Jerry,

 

 

Gen 15:13  Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there.
 

 

The Israelite had a blessed life for the first 30 years they were in Egypt because of Josephs favour recall. They were in Egypt a total of 430 years as you say. The 400 years represents the time they were mistreated. 

 

 

Gen 41:41  So Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt."

 

Gen 47:5-6  Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Your father and your brothers have come to you,  (6)  and the land of Egypt is before you; settle your father and your brothers in the best part of the land. Let them live in Goshen. And if you know of any among them with special ability, put them in charge of my own livestock."
 

 

It wasn't until after Joseph died that a new King subjugated the Israelite.

 

 

Exo 1:8-11  Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt.  (9)  "Look," he said to his people, "the Israelites have become far too numerous for us.  (10)  Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country."  (11)  So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh.

 

 

 

In light of this I suggest the Pastor is wrong and he is confusing the first 30 years the Israelite spent in Egypt as part of the bondage.
 

[Jerry1023]

Hello Jerry,

Gen 15:13 Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there.

The Israelite had a blessed life for the first 30 years they were in Egypt because of Josephs favour recall. They were in Egypt a total of 430 years as you say. The 400 years represents the time they were mistreated.

Gen 41:41 So Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt."

Gen 47:5-6 Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Your father and your brothers have come to you, (6) and the land of Egypt is before you; settle your father and your brothers in the best part of the land. Let them live in Goshen. And if you know of any among them with special ability, put them in charge of my own livestock."

It wasn't until after Joseph died that a new King subjugated the Israelite.

Exo 1:8-11 Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt. (9) "Look," he said to his people, "the Israelites have become far too numerous for us. (10) Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country." (11) So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh.

In light of this I suggest the Pastor is wrong and he is confusing the first 30 years the Israelite spent in Egypt as part of the bondage.

Hello ninhoa

thanks for looking into my post ,may the good Lord bless you, I will like to point out or to correct a comment that you make,for a better understanding,the scripture said,Not me,they spend 430 years,Exodus 12:40-41 and Genesis 15:13 and Acts 7:6" indicated 400 years, if you think or you suggested that the pastor is wrong,that means neither you or the pastor are right,that means i disagree with both of you, base on what my bible tells me,from my own understanding and point of view,i think the exactly lenght of the Israelites sojourn,has been in the pass,and remins today a matter of some controversy,base on some biblical passges, any body is free to disagree with me and prove me wrong,i desire to learn, to the glory of God,

[desi2007]

hello Jerry, To me personally, I think that what is important here is if the people of Israel had given up on God then the retelling of the story means nothing. I see more in depth of the whole story of 400 yrs or 430 yrs....It represents darkness and stagnation in their places on their journey. The people had doubts and they weren't engaged actively involved learning from God. 

Past encounters that God had done for them. This retelling of the story of the Israelites keeps a connection with Our God. It only carries power as long as we are in a relationship with God. The testimony of the ongoing relationship with God is what keeps Hope alive. And the Lord wants  to celebrate in our journey. It is the very thing to overcome our problems with, it is the Word of God, it comes alive.

blessings.

 

 

[Dak]

Hi Jerry.

As you say, the actual length of time that the Israelites had spent in Egypt is a controversy. So let's not talk about it. Instead I want to address your real question, and that is if the Pastor was right in saying, because the Israelites had been negligent in their prayers, their slavery in Egypt was extended for 30 years.

I think the pastor is right, Jerry. Because even if God has promised to bless us, we must still continue to pray, to keep on asking, to keep on hoping, to keep on waiting for his answers. Isn't this what we do ourselves in our daily prayer lives, when we are asking for God's favors? We keep on praying until God answers. This is called, I think, prevailing in our prayers, when God finally pours out his blessings because of our perseverance in praying.

You can find an example of this persistent praying in Psalm 55:

But I call to God, and the LORD will save me. Evening and morning and at noon I utter my complaint and moan, and he hears my voice. He redeems my soul in safety from the battle that I wage, for many are arrayed against me. (Psalm 55:16-18, ESV, emphasis mine)

So yes, the Israelites shouldn't have forgotten to pray. In fact, because they were in slavery, they should have been praying day and night, and without ceasing.

And yes, I do believe that, for some reasons, God does delay his promises and blessings, say, because we have been disobedient, have turned back to our old sinful ways, or have not exercised enough faith.

You can find these in the Scriptures to support these claims:

Behold, the cry of the daughter of my people from the length and breadth of the land: "Is the LORD not in Zion? Is her King not in her?" "Why have they provoked me to anger with their carved images and with their foreign idols?" "The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved." ...Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? Why then has the health of the daughter of my people not been restored? (Jeremiah 8:19-20,22, ESV, emphasis mine)

Come and hear, all you who fear God, and I will tell what he has done for my soul. I cried to him with my mouth, and high praise was on my tongue. If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened. But truly God has listened; he has attended to the voice of my prayer. (Psalm 66:16-19, ESV, emphasis mine)

And they took in their hands some of the fruit of the land and brought it down to us, and brought us word again and said, 'It is a good land that the LORD our God is giving us.' "Yet you would not go up, but rebelled against the command of the LORD your God. And you murmured in your tents and said, 'Because the LORD hated us he has brought us out of the land of Egypt, to give us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us.... Then I said to you, 'Do not be in dread or afraid of them. The LORD your God who goes before you will himself fight for you, just as he did for you in Egypt before your eyes.... Yet in spite of this word you did not believe the LORD your God.... "And the LORD heard your words and was angered, and he swore, 'Not one of these men of this evil generation shall see the good land that I swore to give to your fathers...' [except for Caleb and Joshua] (Deuteronomy 1:25-27,29-30,32,34-35, ESV, emphasis mine)

In short, the Israelites, while still in slavery and waiting for the promised deliverance, should not have forgotten their God. They should have been praying and seeking him with all their hearts.

I hope these answer your questions to your satisfaction

God bless you, Brother!

~

[Jerry1023]

Hello desi and Dakilang,God bless you guys for looking into my post,you guys thought is good as mine,I just want to be sure,so that when ever I'm speaking in public,i will be bold as a lion,because the scripture says that,the righteous shall be bold as a lion.

[Dak]

Hello desi and Dakilang,God bless you guys for looking into my post,you guys thought is good as mine,I just want to be sure,so that when ever I'm speaking in public,i will be bold as a lion,because the scripture says that,the righteous shall be bold as a lion.

[Guest ninhao]

Hello ninhoa

thanks for looking into my post ,may the good Lord bless you, I will like to point out or to correct a comment that you make,for a better understanding,the scripture said,Not me,they spend 430 years,Exodus 12:40-41 and Genesis 15:13 and Acts 7:6" indicated 400 years, if you think or you suggested that the pastor is wrong,that means neither you or the pastor are right,that means i disagree with both of you, base on what my bible tells me,from my own understanding and point of view,i think the exactly lenght of the Israelites sojourn,has been in the pass,and remins today a matter of some controversy,base on some biblical passges, any body is free to disagree with me and prove me wrong,i desire to learn, to the glory of God,

 

 

Jerry notice Exodus says the Israelite spent a total length of time in Egypt of 430 years.

 

Exo 12:40-41  Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years.  (41)  At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the LORD's divisions left Egypt.

 

 

The prophecy given to Abraham in Genesis concerned the period the Israelite would be enslaved and mistreated in Egypt.

 

 

Gen 15:13  Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there.

 

 

We know when the family of Israel first arrived in Egypt they were treated favourably because of Joseph and they weren't mistreated until after Joseph died. This period of freedom and blessing in Egypt was 30 years which was followed by 400 years of slavery before emancipation.

 

 

Exo 1:8-11  Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt.  (9)  "Look," he said to his people, "the Israelites have become far too numerous for us.  (10)  Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country."  (11)  So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh.

 

 

There wasn't an extension of the 400 years but simply the first 30 years in Egypt weren't in slavery.

[Jerry1023]

Hello ninhoa

thanks for looking into my post ,may the good Lord bless you, I will like to point out or to correct a comment that you make,for a better understanding,the scripture said,Not me,they spend 430 years,Exodus 12:40-41 and Genesis 15:13 and Acts 7:6" indicated 400 years, if you think or you suggested that the pastor is wrong,that means neither you or the pastor are right,that means i disagree with both of you, base on what my bible tells me,from my own understanding and point of view,i think the exactly lenght of the Israelites sojourn,has been in the pass,and remins today a matter of some controversy,base on some biblical passges, any body is free to disagree with me and prove me wrong,i desire to learn, to the glory of God,

Jerry notice Exodus says the Israelite spent a total length of time in Egypt of 430 years.

Exo 12:40-41 Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years. (41) At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the LORD's divisions left Egypt.

The prophecy given to Abraham in Genesis concerned the period the Israelite would be enslaved and mistreated in Egypt.

Gen 15:13 Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there.

We know when the family of Israel first arrived in Egypt they were treated favourably because of Joseph and they weren't mistreated until after Joseph died. This period of freedom and blessing in Egypt was 30 years which was followed by 400 years of slavery before emancipation.

Exo 1:8-11 Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt. (9) "Look," he said to his people, "the Israelites have become far too numerous for us. (10) Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country." (11) So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh.

There wasn't an extension of the 400 years but simply the first 30 years in Egypt weren't in slavery.

Hello ninhoa. Just agree with me that,the lenght of the Israelites sojourn in Egypt,has been in the pass,and remins today a matter of controversy,base on some biblical passages,Jacob was 130 years when he came down to Egypt,and he stays in egypt for 17 years,if you check the age of moses grandfather,Kohath, who live 133 years before he died,came down to dgypt with is grandfather,Jacob,his father is Levi,the 3rd son Jacob,the father of Moses is Amram,whom was born in egypt,his age 137 years,moses was 80 years,133+137+80=350 years, take a look at this chapters and verses in the bible,Exodus 6:16-20" Genesis 46:1-34"Genesis 47:8-9"Genesis 47:28" Above all God doesn't make mistake,psalm 135:6" says" Whatsoever the Lord pleased,that did he in Heaven,,and in earth,in the seas,and all deep places,God bless you,wishing you a wonderful and a blessful new month,

[Dak]

Jerry notice Exodus says the Israelite spent a total length of time in Egypt of 430 years.

Exo 12:40-41 Now the length of time the Israelite people lived in Egypt was 430 years. (41) At the end of the 430 years, to the very day, all the LORD's divisions left Egypt.

The prophecy given to Abraham in Genesis concerned the period the Israelite would be enslaved and mistreated in Egypt.

Gen 15:13 Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there.

We know when the family of Israel first arrived in Egypt they were treated favourably because of Joseph and they weren't mistreated until after Joseph died. This period of freedom and blessing in Egypt was 30 years which was followed by 400 years of slavery before emancipation.

Exo 1:8-11 Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt. (9) "Look," he said to his people, "the Israelites have become far too numerous for us. (10) Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country." (11) So they put slave masters over them to oppress them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh.

There wasn't an extension of the 400 years but simply the first 30 years in Egypt weren't in slavery.

I just want to point out some errors in your calculations and argument:

Joseph was 30 years old when he came to power in Egypt (Gen 41:46).

After this came the seven years of plenty and the seven years of famine. Joseph then would be 44 years old after this period of time.

The Israelites settled into Egypt during the first years of the famine. Therefore, Joseph would be around 40 when this happened.

You are insisting that for the first 30 years of their stay in Egypt, the Israelites were treated favorably because of Joseph, and that their slavery began right after Joseph died. According to this timeline then, Joseph would have died when he was only about 70.

Joseph > 40 yrs > arrival of the Israelites in Egypt > good reception

Joseph > 70 yrs > death > start of the slavery

This is what you're saying, right?

However, the Bible says that Joseph died when he was 110 years old, not 70! (Gen 50:26). How then do you explain this?

The only possible answer is that the Israelites received favor from the Egyptians for much more than 30 years!

Here's another point: You are wrong in assuming that the slavery of the Israelites began right after Joseph died.

The people of Jacob/Israel was only a tribe when they arrived in Egypt (Gen 46), and it would have taken them more than 70 years -- the entire time that Joseph was alive with them, 110 minus 40 -- for them to have become the multitude that they were when they were enslaved (Exo 1:7), the mighty multitude that the enslaving pharaoh feared. In fact, verses 6 and 7 of the first chapter of Exodus state that even though the generation of Joseph and his brothers had already died, the people of Israel continued to be fruitful, and they increased greatly, and they became mighty.

To further solidify my case: The contributions of Joseph to Egypt's history were too great to be easily forgotten. The Bible says that the slavery of the Israelites began only when Joseph's influence was no longer known (Exo 1:8-10).

This then is my own estimate: 70 years of favor for the Israelites while Joseph was still alive, and at least another 70 years of favor while the people increased in number and Joseph's name decreased in influenced. So that is 140 years, at least, of good living in Egypt before the Israelites experienced slavery.

So how then do I reconcile all these with what God had said to Abraham about his decendants being strangers and afflicted servants on a foreign land for four hundred years (Gen 15:13)? I DON'T HAVE TO. And that is because "living good" in Egypt didn't mean that those 400 years of affliction hadn't already started -- it didn't mean that the clock hadn't already begun counting. After all, the Israelites were still strangers there in Egypt, weren't they, foreigners in a strange land? And they were still servants there, weren't they, serving the Pharaoh (Gen 47:3-4)? It's just that their sufferings increased a thousandfold when they were finally enslaved by the Egyptians many years later.

~