Biblical support of Eternal Hellfire?

[donfish06]

 

 

Question (and maybe I missed it) for those who claim there is no eternal punishment do some people get saved after dying? Or do they simply cease to exist... Or what do you believe then and where is this found in Scripture?

 

I believe at some point they will cease to exist. I believe hell is very real, but it was also created. Nothing created can be eternal, as eternity is outside of time. There is no beginning to anything in eternity, it always was. By that alone hell cannot be eternal.

 

I don't know if people will burn or 100, 1000, or 1000000 years in hell before it is destroyed, but Eze 18:4 and 20 say that a soul that sins shall die. I personally find it ridiculous that everybody tries to make die mean not die. A dead soul cannot be tormented forever. I see a common thing in your questions on my threads is to ask questions that I have already addressed earlier lol. I have a lot more already typed that shows why I think the souls in hell will be destroyed at some point.

 

If you are swayed by Scripture then you surely understand that death as you see cessation of existence

is not so as this verse indicates

Rev 20:10

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone

where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and

night forever and ever.

NKJV

Notice the duration of the lake of fire is constant forever! That it is torment specific!

Rev 20:13-14

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up

the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

NKJV

Love, Steven

 

 

For ever does not mean eternity. I'm not going to go over this any more as I have said it probably 15 times on here. For ever is used throughout scripture referring to a specific period of time. If you want such scriptures, feel free to read the thread.

[enoob57]

For ever does not mean eternity. I'm not going to go over this any more as I have said it probably 15 times on here. For ever is used throughout scripture referring to a specific period of time. If you want such scriptures, feel free to read the thread.

emphasis is on forever AND ever because it reiterates this truth

Mark 9:42-48

42 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble,

it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he

were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It

is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands,

to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched — 44 where

'Their worm does not die

And the fire is not quenched.'

45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter

life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that

shall never be quenched — 46 where

'Their worm does not die

And the fire is not quenched.'

47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter

the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell

fire — 48 where

'Their worm does not die

And the fire is not quenched.'

NKJV

Love, Steven

[ProphecyKid]

Question (and maybe I missed it) for those who claim there is no eternal punishment do some people get saved after dying? Or do they simply cease to exist... Or what do you believe then and where is this found in Scripture?

 

Psa 37:10  For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. 

Psa 37:20  But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. 

 

Mal 4:1  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 

Mal 4:2  But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 

Mal 4:3  And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. 

 

Mat_10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 

 

They cease to exist. Ashes is what is left after something cannot burn anymore. 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

No, I am saying that your exegesis is not based on sound interpretative principles.

 

What you consider sound interpretative principles, you mean.

 

No, sound interpretative principles refers to the rules of hermeneutics.  I am referring to universally established and accepted rules of literary analysis.   These are objective rules that apply to any text, not just the Bible.

 

The problem is that you want to interpret the Bible on your own terms.  I am not doing that.   It's like thinking that you can simply flaunt the rules of English grammar and do your own thing and still expect to be speaking English.   Biblical interpretative rules are establshed as the rules of grammar in English.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Question (and maybe I missed it) for those who claim there is no eternal punishment do some people get saved after dying? Or do they simply cease to exist... Or what do you believe then and where is this found in Scripture?

 

Psa 37:10  For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. 

Psa 37:20  But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. 

 

Mal 4:1  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 

Mal 4:2  But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 

Mal 4:3  And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. 

 

Mat_10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 

 

They cease to exist. Ashes is what is left after something cannot burn anymore. 

 

Have you ever heard of context???  Psa. 37 isn't talking about burning in hell.  You are mixing contexts and Matt 10:28 isnt even talking about annihilation.  

[donfish06]

No, sound interpretative principles refers to the rules of hermeneutics.  I am referring to universally established and accepted rules of literary analysis.   These are objective rules that apply to any text, not just the Bible.

 

 

The problem is that you want to interpret the Bible on your own terms.  I am not doing that.   It's like thinking that you can simply flaunt the rules of English grammar and do your own thing and still expect to be speaking English.   Biblical interpretative rules are establshed as the rules of grammar in English.

 

Show me where the Bible sets establishes interpretative rules. I am sure that the Pharisees followed the best "rules" ever, and they missed the coming of the Messiah. Your intellect doesn't get you anywhere in Christianity. Its called faith. 

[other one]

 

No, sound interpretative principles refers to the rules of hermeneutics.  I am referring to universally established and accepted rules of literary analysis.   These are objective rules that apply to any text, not just the Bible.

 

 

The problem is that you want to interpret the Bible on your own terms.  I am not doing that.   It's like thinking that you can simply flaunt the rules of English grammar and do your own thing and still expect to be speaking English.   Biblical interpretative rules are establshed as the rules of grammar in English.

 

Show me where the Bible sets establishes interpretative rules. I am sure that the Pharisees followed the best "rules" ever, and they missed the coming of the Messiah. Your intellect doesn't get you anywhere in Christianity. Its called faith. 

 

actually the pharisees used the same kind of logic that you seem to be using.....   didn't work for them either.

[enoob57]

No, sound interpretative principles refers to the rules of hermeneutics.  I am referring to universally established and accepted rules of literary analysis.   These are objective rules that apply to any text, not just the Bible.

 

 

The problem is that you want to interpret the Bible on your own terms.  I am not doing that.   It's like thinking that you can simply flaunt the rules of English grammar and do your own thing and still expect to be speaking English.   Biblical interpretative rules are establshed as the rules of grammar in English.

Show me where the Bible sets establishes interpretative rules. I am sure that the Pharisees followed the best "rules" ever, and they missed the coming of the Messiah. Your intellect doesn't get you anywhere in Christianity. Its called faith.

The very fact that is in written form! God desires to reason with us through the Scripture

Isa 1:18-20

"Come now, and let us reason together,"

Says the Lord,

"Though your sins are like scarlet,

They shall be as white as snow;

Though they are red like crimson,

They shall be as wool.

19 If you are willing and obedient,

You shall eat the good of the land;

20 But if you refuse and rebel,

You shall be devoured by the sword";

For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

NKJV

2 Tim 2:14-15

14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not

to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who

does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

NKJV

2 Tim 3:15-17

15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures,

which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which

is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God,

and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for

instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete,

thoroughly equipped for every good work.

NKJV

Our job is to meet with God in reason through written format as only the born of God through the

Holy Spirit can! Love, Steven

[Guest shiloh357]

 

No, sound interpretative principles refers to the rules of hermeneutics.  I am referring to universally established and accepted rules of literary analysis.   These are objective rules that apply to any text, not just the Bible.

 

 

The problem is that you want to interpret the Bible on your own terms.  I am not doing that.   It's like thinking that you can simply flaunt the rules of English grammar and do your own thing and still expect to be speaking English.   Biblical interpretative rules are establshed as the rules of grammar in English.

 

Show me where the Bible sets establishes interpretative rules. I am sure that the Pharisees followed the best "rules" ever, and they missed the coming of the Messiah. Your intellect doesn't get you anywhere in Christianity. Its called faith. 

 

The Bible is a piece of literature and it follows the rules of literature.  It uses genres of literature that we are familiar with because God uses them as a vehicle to communicate his truth.   The rules of literary analysis can be used to interpret Scripture because Scripture lends itself to them.   God is meeting us where we are and communicating to us in a way we can understand and search out.

 

The study of Scripture is as much an intellectual process as it is a spiritual one.  God created our mind and we are commanded to in Deut. 6:4 to love God with our all of our mind.   So to apply the intellect to the study of God's word isn't anti-thetical to being a Christian.  It is an act of worship and obedience to God to apply ourselves intellectually to God's word.   Faith isn't opposed to the intellectual pursuit of the truth of Scripture.  Faith is the foundation of that pursuit.

 

The Pharisees missed the Messiah precisely because they mishandled the Bible and put their traditions OVER the Scriptures.  Jesus exposed how they were wrongly interpreting the Bible.   Jesus' sermon on the mount set out to correct the gross misinterpretations of the Pharisees and other religious leaders:  "You have heard it said... but I say  unto you..."     Jesus showed the Pharisees how they were misintpereting the text and missing Him in the process.   So despite your claim, it is YOU who are misinterpreting the Scriptures and up to this point, can't provide any substantive refutation.  

 

All you can do is complain that someone has the courage to stand up to your misinterpretations.

[JohnMenthol]

Hell is a real place of course but it's not like people think it is. Most importantly, it's not eternal. The real horror of it most people can't even comprehend. Horror is a very reflexive term to begin with. Some people simply couldn't have any quality of life if they lost their sight; for them, that would be horror. Still to others, the horror of hell is in knowing you had a chance to get right, and seeing far off in the distance the saints all having a wonderful time and knowing they will never get a chance to be a part of it. The popular image of hell with devils and pitchforks, lava and torment and pain and suffering, is just a circus type way of viewing it. What hell literally is the last stop on a person's journey. It's where they go to die. If you just sit and contemplate what it means you'll see it to be more horrifying than anything imaginable.