Tongues Evidence?

[Butch5]

 

 

 

It's not speaking you speaking in a language. It's the gift that was given in the early church. We do know what languages were spoken because in Act 2 it says we all here them in our own tongue.

 

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (Act 2:4-11 KJV)

 

These were known languages.

 

 

Butch5 I think the point Other One is making is this. The foreigners heard their own language come from the mouth of the same person ie. each speaker spoke a language able to be understood by everyone.

 

Act 2:8  And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

 

 

Interesting; I'm not sure if I agree with this but it would be quite amazing if the different languages were understood from one "language" don't you think.  Hmm I wonder if this is phonetically possible.

 

I can tell you that people multiplex reverse speech with their normal voice all the time when they get excited....   so it might be possible to speak more than one language at a time   That's something to ponder.

 

wrong post.

 

Edited December 22, 2013 by Butch5

[Butch5]

 

 

 

What do you mean by unknown. The speaking of tongues was of known languages. They likely weren't known to the speaker but they were real languages spoken by people.

 

I would disagree with that.......   what language could I possibly speak that people could hear me in German, French, English and Chinese all at the same time.

 

We have no idea of what actually came out of their mouths,

 

It's not speaking you speaking in a language. It's the gift that was given in the early church. We do know what languages were spoken because in Act 2 it says we all here them in our own tongue.

 

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (Act 2:4-11 KJV)

 

These were known languages.

 

Yes, but was the miracle the speaking or the hearing....  God seemed to make the people able to hear what was being spoken in their native language....  So was Peter actually speaking seven languages at once or did the lord touch the ears of those listening.....     although I don't think it really matters in the long run, but it's something to wake up in the middle of the night to ponder.

 

Hi Other One,

 

The miracle was in the speaking. It says in the text that they spoke in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

KJV  Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Act 2:1-4 KJV)

 

It appears that there were approximately 120 people there. This would be plenty if each man spoke in a different tongue. It would also explain how each man heard them in his own tongue.

[other one]

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by unknown. The speaking of tongues was of known languages. They likely weren't known to the speaker but they were real languages spoken by people.

 

I would disagree with that.......   what language could I possibly speak that people could hear me in German, French, English and Chinese all at the same time.

 

We have no idea of what actually came out of their mouths,

 

It's not speaking you speaking in a language. It's the gift that was given in the early church. We do know what languages were spoken because in Act 2 it says we all here them in our own tongue.

 

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (Act 2:4-11 KJV)

 

These were known languages.

 

Yes, but was the miracle the speaking or the hearing....  God seemed to make the people able to hear what was being spoken in their native language....  So was Peter actually speaking seven languages at once or did the lord touch the ears of those listening.....     although I don't think it really matters in the long run, but it's something to wake up in the middle of the night to ponder.

 

Hi Other One,

 

The miracle was in the speaking. It says in the text that they spoke in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

KJV  Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Act 2:1-4 KJV)

 

It appears that there were approximately 120 people there. This would be plenty if each man spoke in a different tongue. It would also explain how each man heard them in his own tongue.

 

I can't see that or why would it be such a wonder.  There isn't anything unusual about three different people speaking three different languages.   The text seems to demand that it was some kind of miracle in the minds of those hearing that they heard it in thier native tongue at the same time.

[Butch5]

 

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by unknown. The speaking of tongues was of known languages. They likely weren't known to the speaker but they were real languages spoken by people.

 

I would disagree with that.......   what language could I possibly speak that people could hear me in German, French, English and Chinese all at the same time.

 

We have no idea of what actually came out of their mouths,

 

It's not speaking you speaking in a language. It's the gift that was given in the early church. We do know what languages were spoken because in Act 2 it says we all here them in our own tongue.

 

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (Act 2:4-11 KJV)

 

These were known languages.

 

Yes, but was the miracle the speaking or the hearing....  God seemed to make the people able to hear what was being spoken in their native language....  So was Peter actually speaking seven languages at once or did the lord touch the ears of those listening.....     although I don't think it really matters in the long run, but it's something to wake up in the middle of the night to ponder.

 

Hi Other One,

 

The miracle was in the speaking. It says in the text that they spoke in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

KJV  Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Act 2:1-4 KJV)

 

It appears that there were approximately 120 people there. This would be plenty if each man spoke in a different tongue. It would also explain how each man heard them in his own tongue.

 

I can't see that or why would it be such a wonder.  There isn't anything unusual about three different people speaking three different languages.   The text seems to demand that it was some kind of miracle in the minds of those hearing that they heard it in thier native tongue at the same time.

 

There were Galileans and didn't speak all of those languages.

 

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? (Act 2:7-8 KJV)

 

The Spirit gave them utterance to speak those languages.

[other one]

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by unknown. The speaking of tongues was of known languages. They likely weren't known to the speaker but they were real languages spoken by people.

 

I would disagree with that.......   what language could I possibly speak that people could hear me in German, French, English and Chinese all at the same time.

 

We have no idea of what actually came out of their mouths,

 

It's not speaking you speaking in a language. It's the gift that was given in the early church. We do know what languages were spoken because in Act 2 it says we all here them in our own tongue.

 

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (Act 2:4-11 KJV)

 

These were known languages.

 

Yes, but was the miracle the speaking or the hearing....  God seemed to make the people able to hear what was being spoken in their native language....  So was Peter actually speaking seven languages at once or did the lord touch the ears of those listening.....     although I don't think it really matters in the long run, but it's something to wake up in the middle of the night to ponder.

 

Hi Other One,

 

The miracle was in the speaking. It says in the text that they spoke in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

KJV  Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Act 2:1-4 KJV)

 

It appears that there were approximately 120 people there. This would be plenty if each man spoke in a different tongue. It would also explain how each man heard them in his own tongue.

 

I can't see that or why would it be such a wonder.  There isn't anything unusual about three different people speaking three different languages.   The text seems to demand that it was some kind of miracle in the minds of those hearing that they heard it in thier native tongue at the same time.

 

There were Galileans and didn't speak all of those languages.

 

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? (Act 2:7-8 KJV)

 

The Spirit gave them utterance to speak those languages.

 

Or the hearers to hear in their languages...

[Reformed Baptist]

 

 

Good point...I love to have my mind opened to greater possibilities...

 

 

Well that immediately separates you from the crowd nowadays, good man! 

[Reformed Baptist]

 

Or the hearers to hear in their languages...

 

 

 

I am sorry but I cannot see any ambiguity in the text at all:

 

Acts 2:4  And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Act 2:4 NKJ)

 

Clearly then, they were speaking in other tongues (languages that were not their own) as the Spirit gave them utterance. Later in the text we do read that the listeners heard the message in their own language, v8, but surely in the light of what has already been said the only explanation for that is that the speakers where speaking in those languages. 

[other one]

 

 

Or the hearers to hear in their languages...

 

 

 

I am sorry but I cannot see any ambiguity in the text at all:

 

Acts 2:4  And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Act 2:4 NKJ)

 

Clearly then, they were speaking in other tongues (languages that were not their own) as the Spirit gave them utterance. Later in the text we do read that the listeners heard the message in their own language, v8, but surely in the light of what has already been said the only explanation for that is that the speakers where speaking in those languages. 

 

or the speakers were speaking in a heavenly tongue and God was having the listeners interpret what was being said in their own language.

 

We are told that we should not use tongues in the church to make prophecy unless there is someone there to interpret what is being said.....  it really doesn't say anything about what language someone is speaking, just that someone would understand it......   and I would seem simple to me that the person would hear it in their native language and different people from different places would hear the same sounds but put them to words in their native tongue.

[Reformed Baptist]

 

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven (obviously not every single nation that exists but Greeks, Parthians, etc.).

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.(It does not imply they repeated the message in each of these languages)

 

Thanks for the other perspective regarding the other point (no man understands) but this one is correct according to the word...the Lord bless.

 

No, but it does state that those who heard, heard people speaking in these languages. So, the languages the crowd heard where the languages that the speakers were speaking. As for the idea that the message was repeated, I really do not know where that comes from. Acts 2 begins with 'all' gathered in one place - who is that 'all' is it just the apostles, or it it the fledgling church of Jerusalem - which is the antecedent? You see there could have 120 people speaking in tongues that morning. Remember there must have been something phenomenal about this occurrence for it to attract a crowd.    

 

So we have a large group of people praising God in various languages, ones that are recognizable by the visitors to Jerusalem, and those people listen they are further amazed to note that the languages of every nation represented are being spoken, v8. The miracle is in the speaking, not in the hearing. 

[Reformed Baptist]

 

 

 

Or the hearers to hear in their languages...

 

 

 

I am sorry but I cannot see any ambiguity in the text at all:

 

Acts 2:4  And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Act 2:4 NKJ)

 

Clearly then, they were speaking in other tongues (languages that were not their own) as the Spirit gave them utterance. Later in the text we do read that the listeners heard the message in their own language, v8, but surely in the light of what has already been said the only explanation for that is that the speakers where speaking in those languages. 

 

or the speakers were speaking in a heavenly tongue and God was having the listeners interpret what was being said in their own language.

However, to understand Acts 2 in that way requires one reads a whole lot into the text that simply isn't there, and doesn't have to be their either. We are told in v4 that they were speaking in tongues ( γλώσσαις) not heavenly tongues ( φθέγγομαι) ​surely therefore the simplest reading is as I suggest. 

 

 We are told that we should not use tongues in the church to make prophecy unless there is someone there to interpret what is being said.....

 

Actually Paul tells his readers that they shouldn't use tongues unless there is someone to interpret, and then only a handful should sue the gift and they should allow interpretations to be given, and they must give precedence to others. Now, to say Paul is saying that to us is an exegetical leap my friend. 

 

it really doesn't say anything about what language someone is speaking, just that someone would understand it......

 

Wrong again in my opinion - Acts 2 as the only detailed example of tongue speaking cannot be ignored, and Acts 2 has a lot to say about the languages that where spoken, and therefore heard. Furthermore, Paul has a lot to say about the languages employed when one speaks in tongues, again (as everyone seems to be glossing over) he relies on terms like γλώσσαις never once using  φθέγγομαι why is that if he meant heavenly tongues all along? 

 

Furthermore, he uses 'tongues of Angels' as hyperbole, by that exegaration he demonstrates that even he (who had the gift more then any of his readers) was not able to speak in heavenly tongues. 

 

And, as I have said before he points out that tongues are a sign to the unbelieving Jews that the word of God is now taught in languages that are not theirs. 

 

So, Paul and Luke both actually have a lot to say what these tongues were my friend.

 

 and I would seem simple to me that the person would hear it in their native language and different people from different places would hear the same sounds but put them to words in their native tongue.

 

That might seem simple and, of course, God has the power to do that if he so chooses. However isn't equally as simple to say that a handful of people were speaking a handful of different languages so everyone was able to here what was being said in their own language. Isn't that also simple, and doesn't that fit perfectly with the reading of Acts 2?