I am reading the Bible for the first time, what are some useful compan

[gdemoss]

I think I should clarify.

 

I am not trying to interpret the Bible, I am trying to learn more about Christianity.  I respect that you believe I will not be able to understand the message with my approach.  Though I will seek to understand what I can with my approach, what I am really interested in is you, and what you believe.

 

I will not be comparing religious belief.  I will not be promoting, defending or criticizing any particular belief.  My goal is to explore the shared experience of being misunderstood or misrepresented.

 

You asked a question earlier about what we thought Ham may have done.  Your looking to explore the shared experience of being misunderstood or misrepresented and ask questions that probe the imagination of the reader to speak about things that are not written.  To talk about things not presented in the text.  To fill in the blanks and color the story a bit with the aid of the imagination or power of thought.  Great way to probe for misunderstanding or misrepresentation of what is written.

 

The text does not say what he had done in a clear manner.  Now whether or not the details of the text can be drawn out through maturity and understanding developed over the course of learning concepts and nuances about the things spoken of as one is seasoned in studying is another matter altogether.  There are biblical concepts such as marriage one can take into consideration when it pertains to the text in question that offer realistic logical possibilities but afford no actual proof of their being absolute.  For the text in question one can draw a conclusion that it is possible that Ham was actually looking upon his mothers naked body.  How is this accomplished?  By taking into consideration that the bible teaches a man and woman who are married are one flesh.

 

Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

 

The law explains it plainly as such.  Our text says:

 

Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

 

The law goes further to say:

 

Lev 20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

 

The text appears to be saying that merely looking upon the nakedness of the other is a sin worthy of being cut off of their people.

 

But we cannot be absolutely dogmatically certain of the text for other reasons.  The word translated 'see' in see her nakedness can also be translated as 'enjoy' as seen in the book of Ecclesiastes.

 

• Ecc 2:1 I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy  pleasure: and, behold, this also is vanity.
• Ecc 2:24 There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.
• Ecc 3:13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.
• Ecc 5:18 Behold that which I have seen:  it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him: for it is his portion.

Each one of the red colored words above is the same Hebrew word translated to either saw, seen or enjoy.  It has to do with the fullness of the array of usage of the word in question and definition thereof.  Being a writer you probably understand this concept well.  When reading anything there is a general issue surround what is being said based upon all the possible usage and meanings of the words involved in any given passage or work.  There is an inherent danger of seeking to read deeper that the simple straight forward understanding but as I stated before it is something that is quite possible with the aid of the Holy Spirit of God.  Here is an example of that process at work in the bible itself:

 

2Pe 2:4 ¶ For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Treasury of Scripture KnowledgeConcordance and Hebrew/Greek LexiconList Audio, Study Tools, Commentaries

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Treasury of Scripture KnowledgeConcordance and Hebrew/Greek LexiconList Audio, Study Tools, Commentaries

2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.

 

Peter wrote his epistle and was able to discern by the Holy Spirit that Lot was a righteous man as seen in verse 2:8.  Most people I have encountered will read the account in Genesis concerning Lot and come away with quite the opposite conclusion about Lots character.  The missing element is the interpretation of the text by the Spirit of God instead of the carnal mind which is enemy of God.

 

Consider the following:

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

 

Peter explains that their is a relationship that takes place between the men and the Spirit of Christ inside of the man where an information exchange occurs.  I am simply presenting to you for your consideration the most likely reason for the disagreements and misunderstandings that exist between various factions within biblical religious groups.

 

Here is another consideration:

Eze 14:3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?

Eze 14:4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;

 

According to the text God stopped answering these men according to who he was in truth but instead according to the false image of him in their hearts.  These men had access to Torah as well.  There is more.  Much more.  There is a deep seated reason and thoughtful consideration behind the words penned by Paul in the New Testament:

 

Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

Peace upon you and blessings of truth if you choose to obey and take head of what your reading on your journey to better understand.

[WebFisher]

As you are admittedly not a Christian, might I suggest that along with the Bible you pick up a copy of "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" (there's a part 1 and 2 available, but part 1 should suffice). The book was actually written as a means to disprove the Bible, and as such has a lot of similar takes on the Scriptures from the eyes of an "outsider looking in".

[soForgiven]

Regarding the "Curse on Ham":

 

". The youngest son of Noah (Genesis 5, 32; comp. 9:24). B.C. post 2618. Having provoked the wrath of his father by an act of indecency towards him, the latter cursed him and his descendants to be slaves to his brothers and their descendants (Gen 9:25). B.C. cir. 2514. To judge, however, from the narrative, Noah directed his curse only against Canaan (the fourth son of Ham) and his race, thus excluding from it the descendants of Ham's three other sons, Cush, Mizraim, and Phut (Gen 10:6). How that curse was accomplished is taught by the history of the Jews, by whom the Canaanites were subsequently exterminated. The general opinion is that all the southern nations derive their origin from Ham (to which the Hebrew root חָמִם, to be hot, not unlike the Greek Αἰφίοπες, lends some force)...." - Cyclopedia of BIblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature; James Strong & John McClintok 

 

* You might be interested in "theWord Bible Study Software": theWord.net  I love it! It can enhance your productivity, save you some serious money, and, most importantly, easily dig down and extract a much fuller meaning, as the text intends. Just hover over the Strong's #s, and up will pop the Hebrew or Greek word, respectively, with the Lexical entry in English. You can take notes, create lists, print them, etc. One feature you might find very useful is the "Clipboard Monitor: It can be used anywhere online that you see a Scripture reference. Highlight, then right-click on any verse, choose 'copy' and immediately you are reading it. You can even choose to only highlight the chapter number, ignoring the verse, and the whole chapter will pop up! If there are multiple verses in the highlight block, it will bring you all of them (and you can paste/print them). There is also an option to run theWord off a thumb drive. Did I mention it's free?   

 

* I just discovered this short article yesterday. It briefly outlines a traditional Hebrew wedding, bringing to light all the Biblical significance of God's  beautiful plan from Genesis to Revelation. I truly found it very eye opening . Betrothal

 

Shalom in your home!

 

Beth

 

 

 

[Willa]

You can understand who Jesus was as a human by starting to read in Genesis as you have done. But to understand Christians you need to start reading in Matthew, about 2/3 the way through the Bible. This is where it starts talking about Jesus' birth, life and teachings. The old testament explains who the Jews are and Jesus was born Jewish. The new testament tells about the beliefs of Christians.. So, it makes more sense to me to start reading in Matthew. The book of John tells who Jesus claimed to be. Then go back and start reading in Genesis afterward and read it clear through, because you get more meaning out of the New testament the next time you read it, after reading the old testament.

Genuine Christians believe that the Bible is the Word of God, directly inspired by God the Holy Spirit. So a person who quotes the Bible is not expressing his own opinion, but the opinion of his Creator.

We believe that God is eternal. He existed before creation, and will always exist.. In Genesis He tells Moses His name is "I AM". It means the state of being, eternally existing One. Jesus claims to be I AM in the book of John. That is why the Jews tried to stone Him to death. God is in 3 persons but exists as one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. No one can adiquitly understand this concept.

You will never understand Christians unless you also get to know our God..

You can ask God, (if there is a God) to reveal Himself to you personally. His revelation will never contradict the Bible but will be better understood by the Bible.

All of us who are Christians have had our lives changed dramaticly by receiving our God into our lives. Many have died rather than renounce our God because our lives were not worth living by comparison before we asked Him to be our Director and final Authority, our Savior and Lord. We believe that Jesus purchased us from the clutches of satan by dying on the cross for our sins.

We care for you because we understand how much God loves you and to what lengths He went to, to save all of us. And His love lives in us.

I hope this might help to give you a place to start. But the fact is that I know men who became pastors who could not understand genuine Christians either. They themselves had never come to personally know our God. So they didn't understand the Bible and they didn't understand us by their own admission. And it is God's desire for us to personally and intimately know Him. The main thing that is needed to to that is HUMILITY.

I want to thank you for you quest to better understand us, and am praying that God enable you to do this.

Willa

[a-seeker]

Hey Justin,

 

I am new to this forum (and to all forums!) and joined it only because the weather has kept me in for the last couple days and I am getting cabin-fever: whether I continue to participate depends on my laziness (a major vice of mine).  You asked for a better understanding of a religion which you do not necessarily adhere to, and it seems (this is NOT a criticism) that many of the replies given above devoted more energy to promoting Christianity rather than explaining it. I can sympathize with this approach; but it is not my own, for I am a very bad evangelist.  Whether your question will lead to your conversion, I leave that to the Holy Spirit.  I will try the less important task (though not unimportant) of explaining Christianity....or rather the Bible?  For you say you have begun your "reading" and will tell of "what verses" are particularly interesting.  I take it you are or have read the beginning of Genesis.  To give an explanation of the Bible is not the same as giving a definition of Christianity.  But it is certainly important.

 

A couple of points: Genesis was written years and years ago and will have behind it all sorts of cultural influences that are completely foreign to our own.  The gist of the creation narrative is that YHWH created the world and all that exists in it with a purpose in mind.  This would've been polemical for ancient readers who believed in "the gods" and held myths about gods giving birth to and warring with other gods, and fashioning man mainly for reasons of service (the gods need to eat, afterall!).

 

AS you read the 6 days of creation you will no doubt notice that days 1-3 correspond to days 4-6.  It is intentional.  God creates places, and then fills them with life.  All of this is a process of bringing order out of chaos, for the earth was without form (no place to live) and void (nothing living in it).  God corrects this problem through these 6 days.

 

Why 7 days?  I don't wish to step on toes (of the 100's there are 10 belonging to 6 day creationists and 10 belonging to symbolists) and so I will dodge the question of whether God created in 7 days or the author described it so for other reasons.  One can ask, "why did He literally create it in 7 days?"  Or, "why present it as a 7 day operation?".  I attempt an answer....

 

In the ancient world temples were constructed for the residency of gods and typically involved a 7 day dedication.  On the 7th day an idol (representing and in some sense imbibed with its god) was brought into the temple.  At this point it was thought that the god had "rested" or "taken up sovereignty" over the land.  In the Bible it says that God rested on the Sabbath day.  The image here is not of a God "tuckered out", but of the creator ruling the world--the proper image would be of "descending upon a throne".  It is also no accident that God makes man "in his own image".  The term "image" here appears elsewhere in the Bible (we are talking about the Hebrew of course) but it almost always has a negative connotation and is associated with idols.  This too is no accident.  The idea is that Man (and woman!  But I am old fashioned in my English) is God's representative over the world.  

 

In other words the Bible takes basic themes from its day but completely modifies it in the interest of a new (but really the only and original) God.

 

All of this would've been radical in those days (1400 B.C.?  that is, when it was written, not when the narrative actually took place): to assign all of creation to ONE God??  To have man as such (not merely Kings) God's representative on earth!!

 

Anyhow, there is so, sooo much more even in this chapter.  But that is probably too much.

 

I don't know if any of this will be helpful in your reading.  

 

God bless,

 

clb

[Guest]

....narrative is that YHWH created the world and all that exists in it with a purpose in mind..... myths about.... gods need to eat....

 

~

 

Dear One

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

You Mock The LORD Jesus Of The Bible

 

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

 

Showing None, Zero, Nada Belief In His Holy Words

 

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, Deuteronomy 34:10

 

Nor Do You Understand His Power

 

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night:

 

he made the stars also.

 

And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:14-19

 

Or His Grace

 

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

[Shar]

I'm doing research for a book, and as part of this I am reading the Bible. It is my goal to understand the message as fully as possible. In pursuit of that goal, I am reaching out to a number of communities to ask about potential resources to help me in that understanding.

I purchased the NIRV Bible, but will probably pick up a KJV as well to get the full picture.

What resources do you suggest?

I hope this is the right subforum for this question.  Thank you very much for your time.

 

Edit - I am still interested in any resources you may suggest, but I will now be using this thread to post updates from time to time discussing my reading of The Bible.

I like the New International Version Study Bible.  It has good references and notes.  Particularly good for a person new to reading the Bible.  It was put together by a panel of over 100 Bible scholars from all across the world and without any particular dominational bias.  Its translation goes down to the original manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls.  No translation is absolutely perfect, but this team of scholars formed committees where it was necessary for the greatest majority in each committee to agree to the translation of each passage.  It then had to pass through several committees of exacting standards before a final agreement.  Hope this helps.