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JustinM

Marriage

48 posts in this topic

Another point that you are missing, is the church has become an institution and not a unified spiritual body, it is cold, isolated and unfullfilling.

 

That's not the christian couple's fault and they shouldn't be castigated for it. Demanding that they become a member of your church before they are allowed to be united in holy matrimony is denying them their God given rights. Yes they can go elsewhere to have the marriage ceremony performed, but unless they bow to the stipulations of the church, their marriage in said church will never be recognized.

 

How exactly does that bring unity to the Body? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I won't explain myself again, man.  I have repeated myself more than I needed to.

 

 

That's fine. 

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I didn't say that should apply to every marriage.  I said, if a couple, that are members of a church, refuses to marry on it's terms, and gets married elsewhere, then they shouldn't expect that church to recognize their marriage.  And to add to that, what I meant, and thought you would have understood, is that the couple's marriage shouldn't be recognized by the church body until their relationship has conformed to that church's requirements. 

 

 

Then your marriage wouldnt be recognized by a church that approves of gay marriage since you dont conform to their requirements. And your marriage wouldnt be recognized by a mormon church or mosque. Although you would not attend them, the members would also not recognize your marriage. Really its a slippery slope towards chaos with that view.

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quote man:  " Demanding that they become a member of your church before they are allowed to be united in holy matrimony is denying them their God given rights."

 

Oh, brother. . .

 

No one is telling they can't be wed, they just can't be wed in that church.

 

In the US, the church doesn't even matter, for all intents and purposes, the state is the highest authority required to acknowledge and recognize a marriage.  And, as we are seeing, the state will soon recognize every form of marriage you can imagine.

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Personally,I think you should be allowed to get married in church without a license,everything the State needs to know could be recorded when you present your certificate of marriage to them,but I guess then they would lose out on the $25.00 license fee for revenue-lol

   

 

In my state, there are mormon polygamists. Some of them get around the law by marrying all but one of their wives only in the church without a marriage license. So to the law, they are not married but to their community they are married. They also get welfare for their other wives since they are not legally married and technically living on a poverty level. 

 

The point is, the example so far of being married only within a church is a cult. I do not wish to follow their example. I dont see why it is difficult for a Christian to follow the law and get married in a way that appeases the law (marriage license).

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I didn't say that should apply to every marriage.  I said, if a couple, that are members of a church, refuses to marry on it's terms, and gets married elsewhere, then they shouldn't expect that church to recognize their marriage.  And to add to that, what I meant, and thought you would have understood, is that the couple's marriage shouldn't be recognized by the church body until their relationship has conformed to that church's requirements. 

 

 

Then your marriage wouldnt be recognized by a church that approves of gay marriage since you dont conform to their requirements. And your marriage wouldnt be recognized by a mormon church or mosque. Although you would not attend them, the members would also not recognize your marriage. Really its a slippery slope towards chaos with that view.

 

It's not, the state already recognizes marriages as long as you have a marriage license.

 

My point in all of this is, you don't need the church to be married, you can marry on your own terms anywhere you want to right now.  In Las Vegas, they have every type of theme you can imagine for a wedding.  But, is it holy matrimony?

 

Holy matrimony used to mean something.  People lived and died by that commitment.  Holy Matrimony was intended to be something more than a pointless, spiritually dead utterance at the end of a cermony.

 

If matrimony was truly holy, it would never end.

 

Sure, there are anecdotes and even circumstances in scripture to show when matrimony became unholy and could be dissolved on Earth and in Heaven.

 

Matrimony hasn't been holy in a very long time, why's that?

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Personally,I think you should be allowed to get married in church without a license,everything the State needs to know could be recorded when you present your certificate of marriage to them,but I guess then they would lose out on the $25.00 license fee for revenue-lol

   

 

In my state, there are mormon polygamists. Some of them get around the law by marrying all but one of their wives only in the church without a marriage license. So to the law, they are not married but to their community they are married. They also get welfare for their other wives since they are not legally married and technically living on a poverty level. 

 

The point is, the example so far of being married only within a church is a cult. I do not wish to follow their example. I dont see why it is difficult for a Christian to follow the law and get married in a way that appeases the law (marriage license).

 

No, that's not true.   My grandparents were married in their church and whole church was there.  That was how marriages were done at that time in their community.  There was nothing cultic about it. 

 

Now they still did the marriage license.   I don't think that Justin suggesting anything like what the Mormons do.  I think that is pretty apparent from his comments.

 

The way I am reading his comments is that a church should be able to set the rules for how marriages are done in their congregation.  If couple wants to get married in that church, they need to plug in to that body of believers and be a part of them for a set number of months or years that the church requires in order to get to know them and watch their conduct.   This might very well be the brides home church, or the groom's home church.

 

They would be expected demonstrate their fitness to be married to that congregation.  No pastor wants to marry a couple when he knows the marriage isn't going to work and this couple is not fit for marriage either because of maturity issues, or because of religious/moral differences that are simply going to be a stumbling block to a successful marriage.    The couple demonstrates that they are mature enough for the marriage covenant, and are suitable for each other and are married to one another in the presence of the entire congregation.

 

The congregation commits itself to doing whatever it can to nurture and support the commitment they have made to each other.   There is nothing cultic about that.  If the couple demonstrate that they are not fit for marriage, have engaged in sexual immorality are not good for each other and have a poor chance at a successful marriage and choose to go elsewhere to get married, then this church is not required to add its blessing to that union under those conditions.

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I didn't say that should apply to every marriage.  I said, if a couple, that are members of a church, refuses to marry on it's terms, and gets married elsewhere, then they shouldn't expect that church to recognize their marriage.  And to add to that, what I meant, and thought you would have understood, is that the couple's marriage shouldn't be recognized by the church body until their relationship has conformed to that church's requirements. 

 

 

Then your marriage wouldnt be recognized by a church that approves of gay marriage since you dont conform to their requirements. And your marriage wouldnt be recognized by a mormon church or mosque. Although you would not attend them, the members would also not recognize your marriage. Really its a slippery slope towards chaos with that view.

 

It's not, the state already recognizes marriages as long as you have a marriage license.

 

My point in all of this is, you don't need the church to be married, you can marry on your own terms anywhere you want to right now.  In Las Vegas, they have every type of theme you can imagine for a wedding.  But, is it holy matrimony?

 

Holy matrimony used to mean something.  People lived and died by that commitment.  Holy Matrimony was intended to be something more than a pointless, spiritually dead utterance at the end of a cermony.

 

If matrimony was truly holy, it would never end.

 

Sure, there are anecdotes and even circumstances in scripture to show when matrimony became unholy and could be dissolved on Earth and in Heaven.

 

Matrimony hasn't been holy in a very long time, why's that?

 

 

Ok, you bring up something which I think could be a very interesting discussion.

 

Marriage is holy, in my view, because it is established by God for a purpose. Others may have better and/or different ideas on this.

 

Is a marriage forbidden by God, holy? I would say no, as God defined what marriage should be. A son can not marry his mother, that is forbidden. etc etc etc So, if that happened, it would not be holy matrimony.

 

Does the marriage ceremony or the location of the ceremony or who performs the ceremony make a marriage holy? I would say no, as scripture does not put any requirements on the ceremony (except those general prohibitions such as not invoking another god), or where or who officiates. Now, if a marriage is done between a man and women, who can be married, but in the name of another god, is the marriage then not holy? I am looking to see what makes a marriage holy.  

 

Scripture says a believer and an unbeliever should not marry, but then says, if a unbelieving person who was married to an unbeliever and then becomes a believer, the unbelieving spouse has the choice to stay or leave. When one becomes a believer and the other does not, what is the state of that marriage? Was it holy when both were unbelievers, and potentially became unholy when they were no longer of like spirit?

 

What qualifies a marriage as holy? And can that marriage change status from unholy to holy, or holy to unholy? Of course this is based on the idea that a holy marriage should last forever.   

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Blessings Jade...

    I am really not quite sure if I am the"Christian" you are suggesting that has a difficult time following the law,since you have quoted one sentence from my post,if I am that"Christian" that you are referring to then I would say,"Why did you choose  to quote that particular sentence & leave the one out where I say "but the Bible tells us we are to OBSERVE & OBEY the law"....

    I usually ignore these type of insinuations but sometimes it does get to be a bit much......I do my best to live according to Gods Word & have no difficulty in following the laws of the land because that is what God says I ought to do & I am sure the same goes for many other Christians that also feel the same way I do because all the information that is on the marriage license is also on the certificate of marriage....just because a person does not think a law is necessary does not mean they do not follow it.

     Cult?????I won't even entertain that statement...

                                                                                     Praise & Glory to God=-Kwik

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What qualifies a marriage as holy? 

 

That the two people getting married acknowledge that marriage is a three way covenant and not a two way contract, and that they do everything in their marriage to honor God.

 

Then it doesn't matter where you get married or by who, as long as it is a legal marriage in  terms of the red tape,

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Hi Qnts2, I think we are starting to understand each other better now.

 

I believe something cannot be holy if it is done in a sinful manner. 

 

With that premise, many churches have been direlect by marrying couples that are living sinfully and calling it holy matrimony, and I believe that is why Christian marriages are failing.  Whether that sinfulness stems from their behavior with each other, or from their relationship or lack of a relationship with God, doesn't matter, it cannot be holy matrimony so long as they are living sinfully.

 

I believe a church is completely sanctified in making that a condition before granting holy matrimony to any relationship.

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