The Fossil Record

[ARGOSY]

I believe creationism needs a better explanation for the geological/fossil stratigraphy than the current flood model.

 

Here is a brief summary of an alternative explanation for the fossil layers:

 

God created land out the ocean, this was a small continental landmass in Siberia. God seeded the land and the ocean with life, this is the Cambrian Explosion. The oceans were largely anoxic and sulfuric and so trilobites were everywhere, they coped with that environment. Due to massive lifespans compared to today, its the bacteria that died off in large quantities for many years before the first trilobites even died. This explains why all life was created at the same time, yet bacteria precedes trilobites in the fossil record.  As the world got colder, ice caps grew and more land appeared. As the land appeared, shoreline fossils were the first to appear and so amphibuous fish/insects etc are always found above trilobites. This means that the sea receded, but does not infer that the shoreline animals evolved from the sea creatures as evolution assumes. Then the continental landmass was formed through continuous lowering of sea levels due to growing ice caps and glaciation and terrestrial animals could migrate from the garden of Eden (island of Siberia) into a growing continent. The world favored amphibians because of the repeated transgression/regression cycle, and the climate over most of the continental landmass. 

 

Mammals/birds and grasses and humans were largely restricted to eco-systems more suitable in the far northern highlands of the island of Siberia, northern Gondwana. Here they were not threatened by the larger insects/amphibians of the southern wetlands, mammals/birds/grasses were suited to the lower oxygen, colder, lower air pressure northern highlands of Siberia. (alpine biome - see links below)

 

The Siberian Traps exploded, the greatest volcanic activity the world has known. This occurred during a magnetic reversal which seeded the thick misty air causing widespread rainfalls. The volcanic activity also contributed towards these rainfalls by seeding the air with dust and rapidly rising hot air contributing towards rainfalls and the land experienced flooding in the wide Permian flood plains. At the same time the Permian ice caps and glaciation melted, raising sea levels throughout earth. Due to the flat Permian landscapes, land surfaces were rapidly and completely covered by the worldwide flood. After the flood, the ark landed in Arabia, before that subcontinent collided with Asia. Animals and humans spread along Arabia, the Levant and into Africa. This is why the highest concentrations of early mammal species are found in Egypt/Ethiopia. In the meantime, marine reptiles similar to shell-less turtles discovered entire continents of recovering vegetation and no competition. They adapted rapidly to terrestrial lifestyles before the ark animals could spread out from Arabia/Egypt. These previously amphibuous/marine  reptiles flourished in the hot dry sandy (Triassic) post-flood world. The greenhouse effect of the Siberian Traps created a new high air-pressure world, which enabled these marine reptiles to grow into immense sizes as they adapted to terrestrial conditions.  The spreading mammals from the ark were no match for these dinosaurs, only the smallest mammals could live among the dinosaurs.   The mammals spread to northern climes better suited to them, and too cold for reptile dominance. 

 

Then a huge meteor collided with earth, large reptiles could not handle the cooler temperatures. The restricted light from the dust prevented bone growth and they died off en masse, with only a few surviving that cold and rapid ice age. This ended what is known as the Holocene Climate optimum. The Old Kingdom of Egypt abruptly terminated. Mammals then  spread throughout the earth with the more suitable climate and without the threat of dinosaurs. 

 

This dear friends is the simplified version of the fossil record which co-incides with human civilization. Scientists agree that there could be an "alpine biome" from before the PT boundary (the Great Extinction) that contains traces of modern flora.  I surmise there will be more than just modern flora discovered there:

 

http://www.gigantopteroid.org/html/systematics.htm
There is growing consensus among some molecular systematists and paleobotanists on the existence of a 160 million year old angiosperm ghost lineage rooted at the angiosperm-gymnosperm split roughly 300 MYA, prior to the end-Permian extinction

 

http://www.gigantopteroid.org/html/systematics.htm
Stebbins (1974, 1984) thought that alpine biomes of northern latitudes might have been the center of early radiation of angiosperms. A similar idea, the eastern Asian centers hypothesis, was put forth by G. Sun et al. (2001). Based on the recovery and study of fossil pollen casings (palynomorphs) recovered from deep-sea drill holes, Hochuli and Feist-Burkhardt (2004) suggested that early flowering plants might have evolved in a boreal cradle.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

Other than "indian legend"   where are you getting your information for the notion that life began in Siberia?

[ARGOSY]

Other than "indian legend"   where are you getting your information for the notion that life began in Siberia?

 

Carboniferous fossils have been discovered all around the world, but nothing like today's fuana/flora.  Recently they have been discovering some modern plants (angiosperms) in the carboniferous layers of the Siberian regions. This proves that there was an area in the world with a climate similar to ours, and would logically contain the types of animals we have today (under creationist assumptions that they were there). In addition there was massive volcanic activity over a massive region which covered the entire region with a layer of hard rock. Which explains why those fossils are not easily found, but other types of extinct fossils are found everywhere else in the world.

 

http://www.gigantopteroid.org/html/systematics.htm

There is growing consensus among some molecular systematists and paleobotanists on the existence of a 160 million year old angiosperm ghost lineage rooted at the angiosperm-gymnosperm split roughly 300 MYA, prior to the end-Permian extinction

 

http://www.gigantopteroid.org/html/systematics.htm

Stebbins (1974, 1984) thought that alpine biomes of northern latitudes might have been the center of early radiation of angiosperms. A similar idea, the eastern Asian centers hypothesis, was put forth by G. Sun et al. (2001). Based on the recovery and study of fossil pollen casings (palynomorphs) recovered from deep-sea drill holes, Hochuli and Feist-Burkhardt (2004) suggested that early flowering plants might have evolved in a boreal cradle.

 

I find the theory of a missing "boreal cradle"  or "alpine biome" more believable to explain creationist missing fossils, than the evolutionist excuses for their lack of transitional fossils among literally millions of species.

[ARGOSY]

Summary of this thread:

 

A lost ecosystem in the northern areas of Gondwana during the Paleozioc is a better explanation for the sudden appearance of mammals/humans/birds and angiosperms than evolution. Regarding angiosperms, this is already a common view among scientists.

 

The lack of abundant fossils of these types in the Palaezioc is more palatable than the lack of transitional fossils for millions of species as per the theory of evolution. So the fossil record favors creationism over evolution.

[ARGOSY]

I've just noticed the "dinosaurs and dino poop" thread. I agree with spock, the one year flood cannot explain most of the fossil record. This is the reason I created this thread, to show that there are alternative creationist models that explain the fossil layering better than "the flood did it all" model.

If you place the flood at the PT boundary, incorporating some late Permian and early Triassic layers as flood layers, the entire fossil record fits well into the limited information we have from the bible. (assuming compressed timeframes of course - for this refer to my "Radiometric Dating" thread)

Precambrian bacteria = those billions of creation week bacteria that died off in the multiple generations of bacteria that existed before the first animal died.

Cambrian explosion = the first dead animals after creation week

The transition from marine to coastal to land fossils doesn't mean that fish evolved into mudfish and then evolved into land animals

The transition from marine to coastal to land fossils means that the landmass grew, marine fossils were covered by coastal fossils and then land fossils.

Many of the more dry land animals will most likely be found in the more stable cool highlands of Siberia, these regions have not been properly examined for Cambrian/carboniferous/Permian fossils. they need to be, but the region is remote, and the fossils are covered by a few miles of Siberian basalt formed when lava fountains of the great deep burst forth in the most dramatic volcanic activity the earth has known.

After this lava activity, the ice caps/glaciation melted, the earth was flooded, and all terrestrial life disappeared. Turtles and sea crocodiles survived the flood, crawled onto the land, and dominated earth until the meteor wiped them out. Then the ark animals could safely spread throughout earth.

That my friends, is the fossil record explained in biblical timeframes. No dino poop problems.

[Guest shiloh357]

I've just noticed the "dinosaurs and dino poop" thread. I agree with spock, the one year flood cannot explain most of the fossil record. This is the reason I created this thread, to show that there are alternative creationist models that explain the fossil layering better than "the flood did it all" model.

If you place the flood at the PT boundary, incorporating some late Permian and early Triassic layers as flood layers, the entire fossil record fits well into the limited information we have from the bible. (assuming compressed timeframes of course - for this refer to my "Radiometric Dating" thread)

Precambrian bacteria = those billions of creation week bacteria that died off in the multiple generations of bacteria that existed before the first animal died.

Cambrian explosion = the first dead animals after creation week

The transition from marine to coastal to land fossils doesn't mean that fish evolved into mudfish and then evolved into land animals

The transition from marine to coastal to land fossils means that the landmass grew, marine fossils were covered by coastal fossils and then land fossils.

Many of the more dry land animals will most likely be found in the more stable cool highlands of Siberia, these regions have not been properly examined for Cambrian/carboniferous/Permian fossils. they need to be, but the region is remote, and the fossils are covered by a few miles of Siberian basalt formed when lava fountains of the great deep burst forth in the most dramatic volcanic activity the earth has known.

After this lava activity, the ice caps/glaciation melted, the earth was flooded, and all terrestrial life disappeared. Turtles and sea crocodiles survived the flood, crawled onto the land, and dominated earth until the meteor wiped them out. Then the ark animals could safely spread throughout earth.

That my friends, is the fossil record explained in biblical timeframes. No dino poop problems.

You weave a fancy tale.

[ARGOSY]

I've just noticed the "dinosaurs and dino poop" thread. I agree with spock, the one year flood cannot explain most of the fossil record. This is the reason I created this thread, to show that there are alternative creationist models that explain the fossil layering better than "the flood did it all" model.

If you place the flood at the PT boundary, incorporating some late Permian and early Triassic layers as flood layers, the entire fossil record fits well into the limited information we have from the bible. (assuming compressed timeframes of course - for this refer to my "Radiometric Dating" thread)

Precambrian bacteria = those billions of creation week bacteria that died off in the multiple generations of bacteria that existed before the first animal died.

Cambrian explosion = the first dead animals after creation week

The transition from marine to coastal to land fossils doesn't mean that fish evolved into mudfish and then evolved into land animals

The transition from marine to coastal to land fossils means that the landmass grew, marine fossils were covered by coastal fossils and then land fossils.

Many of the more dry land animals will most likely be found in the more stable cool highlands of Siberia, these regions have not been properly examined for Cambrian/carboniferous/Permian fossils. they need to be, but the region is remote, and the fossils are covered by a few miles of Siberian basalt formed when lava fountains of the great deep burst forth in the most dramatic volcanic activity the earth has known.

After this lava activity, the ice caps/glaciation melted, the earth was flooded, and all terrestrial life disappeared. Turtles and sea crocodiles survived the flood, crawled onto the land, and dominated earth until the meteor wiped them out. Then the ark animals could safely spread throughout earth.

That my friends, is the fossil record explained in biblical timeframes. No dino poop problems.

You weave a fancy tale.

Its more consistent with the fossil record than various categories of animals dying at different depths as per the mainstream christian flood model. Geologists themselves confirm widespread flooding at the PT boundary. What I am suggesting takes into account the following:

1)1700 years of sedimentation prior to the flood.

2) that the flood was only for 1 year

3) Matches the great death event of history with that of the bible

If my proposal fits in better with the bible, and fits in better with the fossil record/geology, on what basis is it more of a fanciful tale than the current flood model? I need bible verses or geological facts to back up your statement.

[Guest shiloh357]

Uh, you are the one needing to provide some more evidence.  Your post was littered witih assumptions, not the least of which is sea crocodiles and turtles getting wiped out by a meteor.  Honestly, the one needing to provide evidence is you.    It appears your view is a mixture of unproven scientific claims and your own speculations. 

[ARGOSY]

Uh, you are the one needing to provide some more evidence.  Your post was littered witih assumptions, not the least of which is sea crocodiles and turtles getting wiped out by a meteor.  Honestly, the one needing to provide evidence is you.    It appears your view is a mixture of unproven scientific claims and your own speculations.

If you study the fossil anatomy of the earliest Triassic reptiles you will see that they are the same reptiles that had a previously marine habitat. This is fact. If you would like to contradict this, kindly look up early Triassic reptiles. After what is known as the Permian extinction (the great death) the world was a dry and silted up environment, this is historical fact. Reptiles flourished then. It is also fact that the demise of the dinosaurs is clearly associated with the iridium layer of a meteor impact. this is scientific fact.

Rather than just write off what could be scientific truth, and what could point towards the bible and not away from it, kindly be more investigative in your approach. Its possible that you are able to learn more about creationism, is it not?

[chrisstavrous]

Well I think its just neat, creation theory needs more than just (god did it and thats it) but you need to keep working on it.

Edited February 17, 2014 by chrisstavrous