Proof of GOD, (without attacking Old Earth or evolution)

[Enoch2021]

 

 

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No disrespect intended but I'm done with this.

 

Have a Nice Day 

[Tolken]

Enoch2021 - No disrespect intended but I'm done with this.

 

None taken.......

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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Okay, I am trying to understand your point here.  Faith is the hupostasis (assurance, reality, evidence) of things hoped for, which is opposite of hypothesis (educated guess).  So this means that because I have faith, I am not guessing or theorizing about the promises of God (things hoped for), I am assured of them.

 

 

Yes, opposite of Hypothesis.  Well it's not Blind Faith "Substance" is evidence.

 

 

A few verses later, different men and women of the past were mentioned.  God made them a promise or delivered a warning, they believed without physical evidence, and their faith is rewarded.

 

Are you saying:  Abel, Enoch , Abraham, Noah, and Sarah had no Evidence ??  You may want to re-think that or look those individuals over 1 more time.

 

 

note also that one definition on Missler's page says "faith is the essence of a future reality",

 

Yes, because Faith is based on Substance.

 

 

I am curious what the topic of Missler's discussion was here.  Is there a title for this teaching?

 

WOW....you would have to ask me that LOL.  I Haven't the first clue and has been in "My Pics" for a while.  That may take some time.

 

 

Our faith is sustained by the Word, not by looking for physical evidence or logical arguments.

 

You had to have FAITH FIRST to Sustain it.  Where did it come from?......Substance?

 

 

If one is convinced of God only by clever arguments and physical evidence, then they can be unconvinced the same way.  Is that true faith?

 

There's only Indirect Physical Evidence @ this point "Specific Complexity" is Overwhelming.  Don't know about the clever arguments....doesn't fit. 

 

Unconvinced from "Specific Complexity" the same way??  Is Non-Sequitur.

 

Tell you what, ask EnochBethany concerning this "Faith" Issue...I seemed to recall him posting quite alot on it.

 

Let me know if you find out any more.

[jerryR34]

 

Are you saying:  Abel, Enoch , Abraham, Noah, and Sarah had no Evidence ??  You may want to re-think that or look those individuals over 1 more time.

Are you saying faith requires evidence?

[jerryR34]

 

Well, argument from incredulity is a subset of argument from ignorance. From reading your posts, Connor, I would never insinuate that you are ignorant, on the contrary you seem sharper than I. I only say ignorance in that we have not found the answers yet. I think that if we would have stopped at God-did-it, we would have missed a lot of wonder - think telescopes, Hubble, LHC etc...Science is the search for God. We will never find him by natural means, but we will only harm ourselves by stopping the search. There are still a lot of us who believe in the bible no matter what we think the evidence tells us. If Enoch can't grasp that well...that's an argument from ignorance. GB.

Understood....

 

You know, part of the problem is your status as an "unbeliever".  Is that a self-assigned status? I began with that status and it threw off a lot of people (so they bumped me up to Seeker! I should've thrown a party at my church). 

 

I absolutely agree that we must continue to exploring the natural world.  But Philosophically I cannot account for its or our origins and our experiences apart from a supernatural power that is self-existent (uncaused).  Now if you agree with that, we are probably on the same page.

 

clb

I was assigned "Nonbeliever". I think we are close to being on the same page, except I don't think science and nature cares a fig about our philosophy. Nature goes on no matter how eloquent our philosophical spewings.

[Enoch2021]

 

Are you saying:  Abel, Enoch , Abraham, Noah, and Sarah had no Evidence ??  You may want to re-think that or look those individuals over 1 more time.

Are you saying faith requires evidence?

 

 

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Faith is the Substance.  Yes, that's what I'm saying....it's not "Blind".

 

If it were "Blind", then you could go believing in anything.....evolution, is a perfect example.

[jerryR34]

 

Are you saying:  Abel, Enoch , Abraham, Noah, and Sarah had no Evidence ??  You may want to re-think that or look those individuals over 1 more time.

Are you saying faith requires evidence?

 

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Faith is the Substance.  Yes, that's what I'm saying....it's not "Blind".

 

If it were "Blind", then you could go believing in anything.....evolution, is a perfect example.

Nice to know we can count on you for bright, large, bold, text and a way of working evolution into any conversation. It feels like debating with someone face to face who thinks they have a point because they talked louder and said more than you...

[Sheniy]

I want to reply to more in your post, but I don't have time. We'll just start with this.
 

 

Our faith is sustained by the Word, not by looking for physical evidence or logical arguments.

 
You had to have FAITH FIRST to Sustain it.  Where did it come from?......Substance?

 

Remember, I said I quoted a previous post that explained this?  The part I quoted here was just the last few lines.
 
Here is the majority of it, posted below.  I am using the Word of God to back up my statements. If you disagree, please explain how I'm interpreting the text incorrectly instead of just dismissing it with no explanation. 

 

 
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  If we're seeking God, we look to His Word.  I paraphrased last time, but here is the actual verse.
 
Romans 10:17 "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ."
 
Hearing the Word doesn't magically save us, but it does have power. 
 
Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."
 
James 1:18 "In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures."
 
The Holy Spirit calls each of us to faith.  The Bible is the message of that faith, but we can't accept it without the work of the Holy Spirit.
 
 1 Corinthians 2:10-14  "For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."
 
Our faith is sustained by the Word, not by looking for physical evidence or logical arguments.
 
1 Corinthians 2:5 "so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God."
 
2 Corinthians 5:7 "for we walk by faith, not by sight--"
Hebrews 11:1-3  "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."
 
If one is convinced of God only by clever arguments and physical evidence, then they can be unconvinced the same way.  Is that true faith?
 
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How we get saved (quick summary - I can connect each of these to verses later)
 
0. we are lost in sin. Our spirit is dead and our flesh nature lives. Spiritual things are impossible to know.
1. God/Holy Spirit draws us
2. We hear the Word/Gospel, Holy Spirit + Living Word ignites something in our spirit
3. We accept His saving grace and we are alive in Christ, flesh nature dies daily  (or we don't accept it and remain lost)
4. We grow as believers, and are sustained by the Word of God/Bread of Life/Jesus Christ
 
Looking for evidence of God in nature may help us understand Him and His creation, but it should never be a foundation for our faith.  It shouldn't be the SUBSTANCE of our faith.  I don't believe because it is entirely logical (sometimes it doesn't seem to be).  I don't believe because I have a theory about the possibility of Him.  I believe because I KNOW HIM.  My faith in God is rock solid (substance) without physical evidence.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

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Nice to know we can count on you for bright, large, bold, text and a way of working evolution into any conversation. It feels like debating with someone face to face who thinks they have a point because they talked louder and said more than you...

 

 

And this is what you do on every single thread:  Divert, Divert, Baseless Unsupported Assertions, Divert, then divert some more.  It's often the result of Holding Deuce-Seven Off Suit.  I don't get distracted.......I will always CALL...................ALL IN!!!  As you have witnessed on many occasions (Like every single time)

 

I guess you can come up with unimaginable scenarios without dealing with the subject.

 

And evolution was the perfect example to hammer my point.

 

 

Oh, I was reading some posts yesterday and you had mentioned Hawking and somebody else.  It may be a good idea, When I Release "The Kracken".....if you plan on viewing,  that you Prepare Yourself:  Crash Helmet/ Advil Super Strength/Crying Towel ect.... cause it's gonna get ugly QUICK!!

 

Now don't come back and call me the Bad Guy for not warning You 

[jerryR34]

haha...you crack me up Enoch...You do know the Kracken is mythical right?

I challenge you to unleash your Kracken on an actual science forum. I will repost your Kracken on a science board and report back to you the responses and laughter if you chose to duck my challenge.

Edited March 20, 2014 by jerryR34