If men got the Titus 2 Treatment…

[Guest Butero]

 

 

IMHO:

Interesting how much Bible is ignored or rejected because it advocates something not politically correct.

 

Vague objections (to clear Bible-teaching readily understandable) are put forth, like:

 

"typically extrapolated from a single biblical text without regard to literary or historical context and followed by a parenthetical string of additional unrelated and out-of-context Bible verses for support."

 

Just a wave of the hand to justify disobedience.  A little shuckin & jivin.

 

As to perspiring (hey now, it is against the rules to use explicit language here), the curse was lifted after the flood.

 

Ethics is hierarchical in the Bible. A man is not to gross out another man in a society where men kissing men is loathsome.  Now Russia is another matter.

 

Now let me tell you that there was this huge mob of persons gathered at the Pearly Gates, seeking entrance.  St. Pete came forth & told the mob:

Now I want all you men who were forced by your wives to do their will to go to my left.  All the men who did what they wanted, go to my right.

 

There was considerable hubbub & dust raised.  But when it was over every single man except one little schnook man was on the left, & schnook was on the right. 

 

St Pete said to him, "Why are you on the right?"

Schnook: "I don't know, but my wife told me to stand here."

If the curse was lifted as you claim, people wouldn't die, women wouldn't have pain in child bearing, and men wouldn't have to earn a living by the sweat of their brow.  The curse continues to effect this world and everything in it.  It is taught in the New Testament that the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.  The New Testament uses the example of Abraham and Sarah, and how Sarah called Abraham Lord. 

 

I really don't believe there is any need to return to the custom of kissing each other, but there are churches that still practice it.  To me, a handshake is fine, and all of this is just the work of a woman who got an attitude because of things being taught about women she doesn't like.  You can't make one thing null and void by showing that people are ignoring other scriptures.  It doesn't work that way. 

 

"The curse continues to effect this world and everything in it. It is taught in the New Testament that the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church."

 

The only curse which IMHO was lifted was the special curse on the ground.  It is not a curse on the woman that she should be under the headship of her husband, no more than it is a curse that the Church is under the headship of Christ.  It is a curse when a husband lords it over his wife (or vice versa nowadays!)  And BTW, how many women have any intention, whatsoever, of obeying their husbands today -- even in the Church?

 

The Bible actually gives Abraham and Sarah as examples, and how Sarah called Abraham Lord.  That is New Testament scripture.  The husband is Lord over his wife, whether he "lords it over her" or not.  But you do have a point.  Few women in this American culture do obey their husbands.  It is just another example of another teaching that is ignored, and excuses are made.  That is why I am saying all this complaining by women is silly, like they are somehow being mistreated and their is a double standard against them.  If anything, it is the other way around.  I gave examples of that already. 

 

The way I look at it, women aren't to blame for men's lot in life.  God set the system up as is, so I don't get mad at women that I have to earn a living by the sweat of my brow.  It is just my place to do so.  I find it silly when women want to complain about the role God gave them.  I didn't write the Bible, and I didn't set the order.  I just accept it.  When people don't follow God's order, they are in rebellion, which is as the sin of witchcraft. 

[EnochBethany]

 

 

 

IMHO:

Interesting how much Bible is ignored or rejected because it advocates something not politically correct.

 

Vague objections (to clear Bible-teaching readily understandable) are put forth, like:

 

"typically extrapolated from a single biblical text without regard to literary or historical context and followed by a parenthetical string of additional unrelated and out-of-context Bible verses for support."

 

Just a wave of the hand to justify disobedience.  A little shuckin & jivin.

 

As to perspiring (hey now, it is against the rules to use explicit language here), the curse was lifted after the flood.

 

Ethics is hierarchical in the Bible. A man is not to gross out another man in a society where men kissing men is loathsome.  Now Russia is another matter.

 

Now let me tell you that there was this huge mob of persons gathered at the Pearly Gates, seeking entrance.  St. Pete came forth & told the mob:

Now I want all you men who were forced by your wives to do their will to go to my left.  All the men who did what they wanted, go to my right.

 

There was considerable hubbub & dust raised.  But when it was over every single man except one little schnook man was on the left, & schnook was on the right. 

 

St Pete said to him, "Why are you on the right?"

Schnook: "I don't know, but my wife told me to stand here."

If the curse was lifted as you claim, people wouldn't die, women wouldn't have pain in child bearing, and men wouldn't have to earn a living by the sweat of their brow.  The curse continues to effect this world and everything in it.  It is taught in the New Testament that the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.  The New Testament uses the example of Abraham and Sarah, and how Sarah called Abraham Lord. 

 

I really don't believe there is any need to return to the custom of kissing each other, but there are churches that still practice it.  To me, a handshake is fine, and all of this is just the work of a woman who got an attitude because of things being taught about women she doesn't like.  You can't make one thing null and void by showing that people are ignoring other scriptures.  It doesn't work that way. 

 

"The curse continues to effect this world and everything in it. It is taught in the New Testament that the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church."

 

The only curse which IMHO was lifted was the special curse on the ground.  It is not a curse on the woman that she should be under the headship of her husband, no more than it is a curse that the Church is under the headship of Christ.  It is a curse when a husband lords it over his wife (or vice versa nowadays!)  And BTW, how many women have any intention, whatsoever, of obeying their husbands today -- even in the Church?

 

The Bible actually gives Abraham and Sarah as examples, and how Sarah called Abraham Lord.  That is New Testament scripture.  The husband is Lord over his wife, whether he "lords it over her" or not.  But you do have a point.  Few women in this American culture do obey their husbands.  It is just another example of another teaching that is ignored, and excuses are made.  That is why I am saying all this complaining by women is silly, like they are somehow being mistreated and their is a double standard against them.  If anything, it is the other way around.  I gave examples of that already. 

 

The way I look at it, women aren't to blame for men's lot in life.  God set the system up as is, so I don't get mad at women that I have to earn a living by the sweat of my brow.  It is just my place to do so.  I find it silly when women want to complain about the role God gave them.  I didn't write the Bible, and I didn't set the order.  I just accept it.  When people don't follow God's order, they are in rebellion, which is as the sin of witchcraft. 

 

Of course the husband's primary job, as the head, is to be a servant to the wife.  As to the perspiration of a brrow, I use the A/C as much as possible if the situation should produce perspiration.

[nebula]

 

 

How many women follow the example of Sarah, calling their husbands Lord?   I would say there are more women ignoring scripture on obedience than there are men who don't love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it.

 

Can you actually give me any evidence that anything I said is wrong?  How did Christ love the church?  He certainly didn't give up his place of authority.  What he did was lay down his life for the church.  Men loving their wives as Christ loved the church would mean following his example, and making sure their wives are cared for, to the point of defending them to the death if necessary. 

 

I was responding to your claim that:

 

"I would say there are more women ignoring scripture on obedience than there are men who don't love their wives as Christ loved the church."

 

"Laying down your life" isn't about defending your wife's physical life to the death. After all, Jesus did not die to protect our physical lives from harm.

 

Laying down His life meant that He gave up His glory with the Father, led by being a servant and ministering rather than lording His authority over anyone (Matt. 20 - 25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said , Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto , but to minister , and to give his life a ransom for many.),  and gave Himself to cleanse and purify us.

 

How many husbands lay down their pride for their wives? How many husbands seek to serve their wives rather than seeking the wife to serve them? How many husbands lay down their wants and desires for the building up of their wives?

 

That is what it means to love his wife as his own body (Eph. 5:28).

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

 

IMHO:

Interesting how much Bible is ignored or rejected because it advocates something not politically correct.

 

Vague objections (to clear Bible-teaching readily understandable) are put forth, like:

 

"typically extrapolated from a single biblical text without regard to literary or historical context and followed by a parenthetical string of additional unrelated and out-of-context Bible verses for support."

 

Just a wave of the hand to justify disobedience.  A little shuckin & jivin.

 

As to perspiring (hey now, it is against the rules to use explicit language here), the curse was lifted after the flood.

 

Ethics is hierarchical in the Bible. A man is not to gross out another man in a society where men kissing men is loathsome.  Now Russia is another matter.

 

Now let me tell you that there was this huge mob of persons gathered at the Pearly Gates, seeking entrance.  St. Pete came forth & told the mob:

Now I want all you men who were forced by your wives to do their will to go to my left.  All the men who did what they wanted, go to my right.

 

There was considerable hubbub & dust raised.  But when it was over every single man except one little schnook man was on the left, & schnook was on the right. 

 

St Pete said to him, "Why are you on the right?"

Schnook: "I don't know, but my wife told me to stand here."

If the curse was lifted as you claim, people wouldn't die, women wouldn't have pain in child bearing, and men wouldn't have to earn a living by the sweat of their brow.  The curse continues to effect this world and everything in it.  It is taught in the New Testament that the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.  The New Testament uses the example of Abraham and Sarah, and how Sarah called Abraham Lord. 

 

I really don't believe there is any need to return to the custom of kissing each other, but there are churches that still practice it.  To me, a handshake is fine, and all of this is just the work of a woman who got an attitude because of things being taught about women she doesn't like.  You can't make one thing null and void by showing that people are ignoring other scriptures.  It doesn't work that way. 

 

"The curse continues to effect this world and everything in it. It is taught in the New Testament that the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church."

 

The only curse which IMHO was lifted was the special curse on the ground.  It is not a curse on the woman that she should be under the headship of her husband, no more than it is a curse that the Church is under the headship of Christ.  It is a curse when a husband lords it over his wife (or vice versa nowadays!)  And BTW, how many women have any intention, whatsoever, of obeying their husbands today -- even in the Church?

 

The Bible actually gives Abraham and Sarah as examples, and how Sarah called Abraham Lord.  That is New Testament scripture.  The husband is Lord over his wife, whether he "lords it over her" or not.  But you do have a point.  Few women in this American culture do obey their husbands.  It is just another example of another teaching that is ignored, and excuses are made.  That is why I am saying all this complaining by women is silly, like they are somehow being mistreated and their is a double standard against them.  If anything, it is the other way around.  I gave examples of that already. 

 

The way I look at it, women aren't to blame for men's lot in life.  God set the system up as is, so I don't get mad at women that I have to earn a living by the sweat of my brow.  It is just my place to do so.  I find it silly when women want to complain about the role God gave them.  I didn't write the Bible, and I didn't set the order.  I just accept it.  When people don't follow God's order, they are in rebellion, which is as the sin of witchcraft. 

 

Of course the husband's primary job, as the head, is to be a servant to the wife.  As to the perspiration of a brrow, I use the A/C as much as possible if the situation should produce perspiration.

 

We do serve one another, in that we need to meet each other's needs.  I use the A/C as much as I can too, but they haven't found a way to keep the back of a trailer cool yet, and by the time I get done unloading in the heat of the summer, my shirt is soaking in sweat.  I am all for making things as easy as possible with today's technology, just as I am for women having as little pain as possible in child bearing.  I don't believe they are sinning if they don't opt for natural child birth. 

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

How many women follow the example of Sarah, calling their husbands Lord?   I would say there are more women ignoring scripture on obedience than there are men who don't love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it.

 

Can you actually give me any evidence that anything I said is wrong?  How did Christ love the church?  He certainly didn't give up his place of authority.  What he did was lay down his life for the church.  Men loving their wives as Christ loved the church would mean following his example, and making sure their wives are cared for, to the point of defending them to the death if necessary. 

 

I was responding to your claim that:

 

"I would say there are more women ignoring scripture on obedience than there are men who don't love their wives as Christ loved the church."

 

"Laying down your life" isn't about defending your wife's physical life to the death. After all, Jesus did not die to protect our physical lives from harm.

 

Laying down His life meant that He gave up His glory with the Father, led by being a servant and ministering rather than lording His authority over anyone (Matt. 20 - 25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said , Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto , but to minister , and to give his life a ransom for many.),  and gave Himself to cleanse and purify us.

 

How many husbands lay down their pride for their wives? How many husbands seek to serve their wives rather than seeking the wife to serve them? How many husbands lay down their wants and desires for the building up of their wives?

 

That is what it means to love his wife as his own body (Eph. 5:28).

 

How many wives fulfill their role as a help meet and willingly obey their husbands as they would Christ?  Jesus made it clear that he was Lord over his disciples, but he showed them how their Lord was willing to wash their feet.  He never gave up his Lordship.  The disciples obeyed Jesus, and he never once told them they were wrong to do so.  As a matter of fact, he stated in John's gospel that they were his friends, if they did whatsoever he commanded them.  Jesus is our example. 

[nebula]

As to perspiring (hey now, it is against the rules to use explicit language here), the curse was lifted after the flood.

Where do you see this mentioned in Scripture?

 

It is in the start of the blessed Noahic Covenant of Gen 9

 

" And Noah builded an altar unto Jehovah, and took of every clean beast, and of every clean bird, and offered burnt-offerings on the altar.  21 And Jehovah smelled the sweet savor; and Jehovah said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s  sake, for that the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more everything living, as I have done.  22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease."

 

I disagree.

 

This does not say the curse of Adam is lifted. Rather it states the the ground will not be cursed again. The implication is that the Flood was a new cursing of the ground, since the ground was destroyed.

 

This interpretation fits in with the rest of the passage, for God speaks of those things which the Flood affected directly.

 

And by the way, the ground still produces thorns and thistles, which was a part of Adam's land curse.

[nebula]

How many wives fulfill their role as a help meet and willingly obey their husbands as they would Christ?

About the same number of husbands who love their wives as they love themselves as I described above.

[Guest Butero]

 

As to perspiring (hey now, it is against the rules to use explicit language here), the curse was lifted after the flood.

Where do you see this mentioned in Scripture?

 

It is in the start of the blessed Noahic Covenant of Gen 9

 

" And Noah builded an altar unto Jehovah, and took of every clean beast, and of every clean bird, and offered burnt-offerings on the altar.  21 And Jehovah smelled the sweet savor; and Jehovah said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s  sake, for that the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more everything living, as I have done.  22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease."

 

I disagree.

 

This does not say the curse of Adam is lifted. Rather it states the the ground will not be cursed again. The implication is that the Flood was a new cursing of the ground, since the ground was destroyed.

 

This interpretation fits in with the rest of the passage, for God speaks of those things which the Flood affected directly.

 

And by the way, the ground still produces thorns and thistles, which was a part of Adam's land curse.

 

On this point, I tend to agree with you.  There is no way the curse was lifted, and it won't be till there is a new heaven and a new earth.  There will be some restoration in the millennial reign, but not complete restoration. 

[Guest Butero]

 

How many wives fulfill their role as a help meet and willingly obey their husbands as they would Christ?

About the same number of husbands who love their wives as they love themselves as I described above.

 

Since there is no way to know for sure, I will concede the point.  There will always be some obedient men and women and disobedient men and women. 

[The_Patriot21]

@ butero, perhaps then it is different in your area then where I am-often where I am and from what I observe women are expected to be more Godly. For example, if a man sleeps around no one says anything-a woman does it, and she gets called all kinds of names. Thats an extreme example, but I think there maybe some cultural differences. 

 

Anyway, you asked what I got out of it, thats what I got out of it.