The SUN (lets take a look see)

[jerryR34]

 

 

Temp Minimum in the Chromosphere ??  What in the World?  If you have heat generated @ the core (from Thermo-Nuclear Reactions) , the Temp should get lower and lower the further you move from the source.  What actually happens?....Why yes, the Exact Opposite...... of Logarithmic Magnitudes!!  Guess they forgot about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (Heat Doesn't Flow UpHill !!!) 

 How do you figure this violates the 2nd law? 

[Enoch2021]

 

Temp Minimum in the Chromosphere ??  What in the World?  If you have heat generated @ the core (from Thermo-Nuclear Reactions) , the Temp should get lower and lower the further you move from the source.  What actually happens?....Why yes, the Exact Opposite...... of Logarithmic Magnitudes!!  Guess they forgot about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (Heat Doesn't Flow UpHill !!!) 

 How do you figure this violates the 2nd law? 

 

 

 

 

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I already explained this in the OP and it's in my explanation which you quoted above:

 

(Heat Doesn't Flow UpHill !!!)

 

 

So the Temperature from the Surface of the Sun (PhotoSphere) on it's way to the Chromosphere dips a bit then slowly rises through the ChromoSphere and then GOES PARABOLIC when nearing the Corona.  

 

Practical example.......

 

That's like standing near a Wood Stove then moving back 100 meters because it's too hot and then you Spontaneously Combust!!!!!

 

In other words...... "Heat" doesn't get "Hotter" the further you move away from the source, it get Colder.

[jerryR34]

You explained nothing.  The corona has been measured to be hotter than the surface.  Just because you can't wrap your head around it does not mean it violates the second law.  Energy takes many forms. 

 

Let me give you a practical example.  Say you have a space heater at the end of an extension cord.  Even though the area near the heater will be warmer, there is more energy where the cord plugs into the wall than when it reaches the heater (copper is not a perfect conductor).  There you have it…hotter further from the source of energy and no breaking the LAW.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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Just because you can't wrap your head around it does not mean it violates the second law.

 

Are you kidding with a statement like this?  I will forgo comment because I'd like to keep this thread open

 

The Space Heater example    You need to review 2LOT.

 

 

Let me explain it:

 

The Standard Model of the Sun Says that there are Thermo-Nuclear Reactions inside the Sun that powers it with Massive Convection (another very serious problem...see Reynolds Number). 

 

Therefore:  If that's the Case; THEN Core (Hottest)-------> PhotoSphere (Less Hot)----------> ChromoSphere (Lesser Hot) ---------> Corona (Least HOT).  The further away from the source the less HOT.....HEAT FLOWS DOWNHILL......................... it's Basic 2LOT and it's Intuitive.

 

It's Like a Wood Stove Jerry; the further away you get.....the Less Heat you feel.

 

What do we Find in the Sun's Temp Profile......THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

THEREFORE:  it's in Violation of 2LOT and......................

 

“If your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics, I can give you no hope; there is nothing for [your theory] but to collapse in the deepest humiliation.”

[Arthur S. Eddington, The Nature of the Physical World (1930), p. 74.]

 

This is really the Bare Bones of it.

[jerryR34]

 

 

 

 

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Just because you can't wrap your head around it does not mean it violates the second law.

 

Are you kidding with a statement like this?  I will forgo comment because I'd like to keep this thread open

 

The Space Heater example    You need to review 2LOT.

 

 

Let me explain it:

 

The Standard Model of the Sun Says that there are Thermo-Nuclear Reactions inside the Sun that powers it with Massive Convection (another very serious problem...see Reynolds Number). 

 

Therefore:  If that's the Case; THEN Core (Hottest)-------> PhotoSphere (Less Hot)----------> ChromoSphere (Lesser Hot) ---------> Corona (Least HOT).  The further away from the source the less HOT.....HEAT FLOWS DOWNHILL......................... it's Basic 2LOT and it's Intuitive.

 

It's Like a Wood Stove Jerry; the further away you get.....the Less Heat you feel.

 

What do we Find in the Sun's Temp Profile......THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

THEREFORE:  it's in Violation of 2LOT and......................

 

“If your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics, I can give you no hope; there is nothing for [your theory] but to collapse in the deepest humiliation.”

[Arthur S. Eddington, The Nature of the Physical World (1930), p. 74.]

 

This is really the Bare Bones of it.

 

It does not violate the second law.  My example is perfectly valid.  Heat dissipation of energy is what causes entropy.  Your stove example is invalid, because the only energy it give off is heat.  By your stove example, it should be hotter 200,000 miles out in space from earth in the direction of the sun.  It's not is it?  Care to tell me why since that space is closer to the energy source (the stove/sun) than we are, and there is less energy reaching us than at that point?  Think the same mechanics could be going on in the sun since the energy passes through different media? 

 

My example is valid because the energy passed through a more conductive medium (copper) gives off less heat energy than when it passes through the more resistant coils.  The sun gives off many forms of energy - gamma, x-ray, light, uv etc. 

 

Your stove example is too simple.

[Enoch2021]

 

It does not violate the second law.  My example is perfectly valid.  Heat dissipation of energy is what causes entropy.  Your stove example is invalid, because the only energy it give off is heat.  By your stove example, it should be hotter 200,000 miles out in space from earth in the direction of the sun.  It's not is it?  Care to tell me why since that space is closer to the energy source (the stove/sun) than we are, and there is less energy reaching us than at that point?  Think the same mechanics could be going on in the sun since the energy passes through different media? 

 

 

My example is valid because the energy passed through a more conductive medium (copper) gives off less heat energy than when it passes through the more resistant coils.  The sun gives off many forms of energy - gamma, x-ray, light, uv etc. 

 

Your stove example is too simple.

 

 

 

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I can't explain it any simpler

 

Please ask someone or "bounce" your scenario of someone else to confirm.  Call or email a Physics Department and have them respond....it should take less than 5 seconds.

 

Please post their response including Name and Contact Information.

 

Thanks

[jerryR34]

Bottom line...your example takes into consideration only one factor for heat dissipation...distance.  I've given you several others, yet you stick to your stove example.  Nothing I've put forward violates the second law.

 

I don't doubt a physics department would tell me the further you get from a stove the cooler it will be...but do you really think they would think that's an apt analogy for corona vs photshere tempature differences?

 

Northumbria University. "Light shone on star mystery: Why sun's corona is much hotter than its surface." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 4 February 2013. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130204094608.htm.

[Enoch2021]

Bottom line...your example takes into consideration only one factor for heat dissipation...distance.  I've given you several others, yet you stick to your stove example.  Nothing I've put forward violates the second law.

 

I don't doubt a physics department would tell me the further you get from a stove the cooler it will be...but do you really think they would think that's an apt analogy for corona vs photshere tempature differences?

 

Northumbria University. "Light shone on star mystery: Why sun's corona is much hotter than its surface." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 4 February 2013. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130204094608.htm.

 

 

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Uh Huh.....Now it's Both, From your Source:

 

Plasma:  By the Way Hannes Alfven siad this (the first quote) back in 1970:  http://www.science20.com/news_releases/the_mystery_of_our_suns_heat

 

"It is believed that the cause of the increased temperature is due to magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) waves that distribute the energy generated below the star's surface to the outer layers of the Sun's atmosphere"

 

Thermo-Nuclear:

 

"Stars generate heat through thermonuclear reactions in their core and the temperature decreases towards the star's surface."

 

They're Ad Hoc-ing......it's not gonna work:

 

 

I got something for them LOL:  http://www.pnas.org/content/109/30/11928.abstract?sid=df7ff78a-79b3-431c-bec5-7cf9e3c9651f

 

Back to Convection    Basically Hanasoge found just ONE PERCENT of the SOLAR CONVECTION expected by The Standard Model of The SUN.

 

That Parties Over!!!!!

 

Good Try, However

[jerryR34]

So, you keep decrying ad hoc...how do we increase our kowledge if we don't add to and adjust our theories?  What should we do...stand by a stove and extrapolate the knowledge we learn there to something as complex as the sun?  I think the parties just beginning - we have so much to learn.  I think I'll move away from the stove and learn it.

[jerryR34]

I read the article you linked to.  Basically the gist is "convective velocities are 20–100 times weaker than current theoretical estimates".  What's your point?  What's the point of this thread?  Are you saying that since science is attempting to update and improve its theories that the devil made them put out false information originally?  Are you just attempting to impugn the scientific process in general?