John Robinson Posted April 4, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 903 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/01/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted April 4, 2014 ...and the guy never answered the question about what he would do if he saw a child being attacked. That kind of says it all, doesn't it? Men have a word for that thinking. I won't use it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashe Posted April 5, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 84 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2014 We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against ... the spiritual forces of evil. (Eph 6:12) They have conquered him by the blood of the lamb and the word of the martyrs for they loved not their lives even to death (Rev 12:11). (Not through self-defense or they conquered by the muzzle of a gun!) What do we do when we see people getting attacked or raped? We followed the law. We call the police and take photos as evidence. Making a noise and a scene is the best way to stop rape, this can be done by anyone and not someone who is bigger or stronger or has a gun! The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus. Jesus comments about having a sword, is purely to show that when Peter used it, it was the wrong thing to do! The only violent thing Jesus ever did was removing the traders from the temple. This was against 'God's people' - not others and was a one-off prophetic event. He never used violence when people wanted to take him or make him king before his time - he just walked away. God was with him! When did the church in Acts ever use violence? They were attacked and beaten but never once used violence in self-defense, or to protect others in the church. They totally trusted God. Although David was a man after God's heart, it was forbidden from building the temple because he was violent. What does that say about what God thinks about violence? It is very sad that people think violence was part of Jesus' life. This is a complete misrepresentation of Jesus or the church in Acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 5, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 5, 2014 What do we do when we see people getting attacked or raped? We followed the law. We call the police and take photos as evidence. Making a noise and a scene is the best way to stop rape, this can be done by anyone and not someone who is bigger or stronger or has a gun! Good advice. But it should be pointed out that this is much better than doing nothing as the OP was advocating. The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus. I don't believe anyone here as advocated violence when seeking social change or when protesting. Do you know of any accounts where either of them had their home broken into where they just let the intruder have his way with their possessions and their family? Jesus comments about having a sword, is purely to show that when Peter used it, it was the wrong thing to do! This reminds me of a parent who gives their children matches to play with, with the intent of the children causing fire damage just to show them why they should not be playing with matches to begin with. Sorry, but I have a very difficult time accepting your interpretation of this account. The only violent thing Jesus ever did was removing the traders from the temple. This was against 'God's people' - not others and was a one-off prophetic event. It still holds, however, that Jesus used physical force when and where it was necessary to do so. He never used violence when people wanted to take him or make him king before his time - he just walked away. God was with him! Does that mean God is not with the Christians being ruthlessly killed in Uganda, Egypt, Syria, India, etc.? When did the church in Acts ever use violence? They were attacked and beaten but never once used violence in self-defense, or to protect others in the church. They totally trusted God. A few years ago, a man killed some people at a church with his gun and going after more when a security guard stopped him by shooting at him with her gun. (Account here) Would you tell the people at the church who are alive today because of her actions that she sinned by doing so? Although David was a man after God's heart, it was forbidden from building the temple because he was violent. What does that say about what God thinks about violence? If this was a consistent message found in Israel's history, you would have a point. But numerous times God commanded His people to conquer and even kill the peoples of cities and nations. King Saul was even punished for not slaying a king. How do you reconcile this? It is very sad that people think violence was part of Jesus' life. This is a complete misrepresentation of Jesus or the church in Acts. One recorded incident is still an incident, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against ... the spiritual forces of evil. (Eph 6:12) They have conquered him by the blood of the lamb and the word of the martyrs for they loved not their lives even to death (Rev 12:11). (Not through self-defense or they conquered by the muzzle of a gun!) What do we do when we see people getting attacked or raped? We followed the law. We call the police and take photos as evidence. Making a noise and a scene is the best way to stop rape, this can be done by anyone and not someone who is bigger or stronger or has a gun! The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus. Jesus comments about having a sword, is purely to show that when Peter used it, it was the wrong thing to do! The only violent thing Jesus ever did was removing the traders from the temple. This was against 'God's people' - not others and was a one-off prophetic event. He never used violence when people wanted to take him or make him king before his time - he just walked away. God was with him! When did the church in Acts ever use violence? They were attacked and beaten but never once used violence in self-defense, or to protect others in the church. They totally trusted God. Although David was a man after God's heart, it was forbidden from building the temple because he was violent. What does that say about what God thinks about violence? It is very sad that people think violence was part of Jesus' life. This is a complete misrepresentation of Jesus or the church in Acts. yeah. ok. stand there with YOUR phone taking pics. i do appreciate you calling the police, but really, by the time they get there, the girl might be dead. but at least you got the snapshots. i love how you post only scriptures that suit your whimsy but totally IGNORE the scriptures that INSTRUCT you to DEFEND others... and i posted plenty of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashe Posted April 5, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 84 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2014 We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against ... the spiritual forces of evil. (Eph 6:12) They have conquered him by the blood of the lamb and the word of the martyrs for they loved not their lives even to death (Rev 12:11). (Not through self-defense or they conquered by the muzzle of a gun!) What do we do when we see people getting attacked or raped? We followed the law. We call the police and take photos as evidence. Making a noise and a scene is the best way to stop rape, this can be done by anyone and not someone who is bigger or stronger or has a gun! The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus. Jesus comments about having a sword, is purely to show that when Peter used it, it was the wrong thing to do! The only violent thing Jesus ever did was removing the traders from the temple. This was against 'God's people' - not others and was a one-off prophetic event. He never used violence when people wanted to take him or make him king before his time - he just walked away. God was with him! When did the church in Acts ever use violence? They were attacked and beaten but never once used violence in self-defense, or to protect others in the church. They totally trusted God. Although David was a man after God's heart, it was forbidden from building the temple because he was violent. What does that say about what God thinks about violence? It is very sad that people think violence was part of Jesus' life. This is a complete misrepresentation of Jesus or the church in Acts. yeah. ok. stand there with YOUR phone taking pics. i do appreciate you calling the police, but really, by the time they get there, the girl might be dead. but at least you got the snapshots. i love how you post only scriptures that suit your whimsy but totally IGNORE the scriptures that INSTRUCT you to DEFEND others... and i posted plenty of them. All your 'scriptures' are OT. Have you read the book of Ruth? Boaz is an example of someone who protects and defends the weak. Violence isn't involved. Try having a big picture understanding of scripture rather than just proof texting scriptures to support a preconceived idea. Without God's spirit prompting what to do in a violent situation you could all end up dead. Didn't someone quote Jesus saying, he who lives by the sword dies by the sword? If you want to get violent, you will reap what you sow. Feel free to do so. Drawing attention to people in the midst of crimes does more to desclate a situation and save lives then going in all guns blazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashe Posted April 5, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 84 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2014 What do we do when we see people getting attacked or raped? We followed the law. We call the police and take photos as evidence. Making a noise and a scene is the best way to stop rape, this can be done by anyone and not someone who is bigger or stronger or has a gun!Good advice.But it should be pointed out that this is much better than doing nothing as the OP was advocating. The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus.I don't believe anyone here as advocated violence when seeking social change or when protesting.Do you know of any accounts where either of them had their home broken into where they just let the intruder have his way with their possessions and their family? Yes. Mandela's house was broken into by the police and his wife was removed in front of his children and she was taken away and beaten. The difference between Winnie and Nelson was Nelson choose to forgive and Winnie didn't. Winnie is remembered for her failings while Nelson is honoured around the world. Jesus comments about having a sword, is purely to show that when Peter used it, it was the wrong thing to do!This reminds me of a parent who gives their children matches to play with, with the intent of the children causing fire damage just to show them why they should not be playing with matches to begin with.Sorry, but I have a very difficult time accepting your interpretation of this account. I don't see what is so difficult about understanding this. The sword was used once by Peter. Jesus not only told him to stop, but healed the hurt it caused. Clearly Jesus was against what was happening and loved his enemies. The only violent thing Jesus ever did was removing the traders from the temple. This was against 'God's people' - not others and was a one-off prophetic event.It still holds, however, that Jesus used physical force when and where it was necessary to do so.If you think you need to go to the temple to prophetically act out God's word to the nation of Israel, feel free to do so. It is a stretch to say this then condones violence. He never used violence when people wanted to take him or make him king before his time - he just walked away. God was with him!Does that mean God is not with the Christians being ruthlessly killed in Uganda, Egypt, Syria, India, etc.?How on earth does that follow? Are you saying God wasn't with Jesus when he was killed?Try reading Rev 12:11 - martyrs are part of the church and their dead is extremely significant in the book of Rev. When did the church in Acts ever use violence? They were attacked and beaten but never once used violence in self-defense, or to protect others in the church. They totally trusted God.A few years ago, a man killed some people at a church with his gun and going after more when a security guard stopped him by shooting at him with her gun. (Account here) Would you tell the people at the church who are alive today because of her actions that she sinned by doing so?So you are equating what someone did in a church today with the book of Acts?IF the security guard did his job then good for him. For the first three hundred years of the church, people who were in the army (which was basically the police or security forces) where not allowed to be part of the church. It was only with the merging of church and state did the church allow such people to be called 'Christians'. Although David was a man after God's heart, it was forbidden from building the temple because he was violent. What does that say about what God thinks about violence? If this was a consistent message found in Israel's history, you would have a point. But numerous times God commanded His people to conquer and even kill the peoples of cities and nations. King Saul was even punished for not slaying a king. How do you reconcile this?The only violence sanctioned by Israel was for the conquering of the Holy Land. People in the Holy Land were given due warning to leave and didn't. (See the account of Rahab in Judges - she and her people know what is coming). If you think you are establishing the Holy Land for the people coming out of Egypt, then go and use violence. Other than that, violence is not sanctioned in the OT. It is very sad that people think violence was part of Jesus' life. This is a complete misrepresentation of Jesus or the church in Acts. One recorded incident is still an incident, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted April 5, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted April 5, 2014 The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus. Actually that statement is not correct. I am South African and I know Nelson Mandela saved our country from a bloodbath. He is one of my role models and I have met him and sat down to lunch with him. But he did advocate violence, and it was he who stated that the ANC's military wing Mkonto we Siswe (the spear of the nation), should take up arms. He was arrested in the Rivonia trial for planning to set bombs on power pylons. I am no saying that the south African government was correct or moral, and that his life term as a terrorist was right, but we need to get our facts correct. he did advocate violence, which changed over the years, but he was never a pacifist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 5, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,387 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,563 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted April 5, 2014 People may say this and people may say that but Jesus said John 18:36 36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." NKJV Now after the Cross and resurrection what it understood about this place now in the Church age Col 3:1-4 3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. KJV When will the kingdom be here? Luke 22:18 18 for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes. NKJV Are we drinking the fruit of the vine with Him now? Dan 7:14 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed. NKJV evidently even His reign on earth will not be considered His Kingdom. His Kingdom then must be the eternal state and all enemies will be gone... no body to fight Oh well I never wanted to kill anyone anyway ... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted April 5, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2014 People may say this and people may say that but Jesus said John 18:36 36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." NKJV Now after the Cross and resurrection what it understood about this place now in the Church age Col 3:1-4 3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. KJV When will the kingdom be here? Luke 22:18 18 for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes. NKJV Are we drinking the fruit of the vine with Him now? Dan 7:14 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed. NKJV evidently even His reign on earth will not be considered His Kingdom. His Kingdom then must be the eternal state and all enemies will be gone... no body to fight Oh well I never wanted to kill anyone anyway ... Love, Steven Well said enoob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Robinson Posted April 5, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 903 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/01/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Take pictures and wait for the police. What a gutless response as a child is being killed. Plus don't forget the saying: "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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