Will there be a second chance for salvation after the rapture?

[Salty]

Hi Salty,

 

Yes we certainly disagree on these points.

 

I don`t see in God`s word that the just get resurrected & go into the Millennium, only those who God says were beheaded  (for God`s word) during the tribulation.

 

The gathering of the `elect,` (in Matt. 24: 25) is the scattered remanent of Israel after the Tribulation, as Isaiah also tells us. (Isa. 66: 18 - 21)

 

Also the unjust do not get bodies like angels. How can the unjust be given `clothing` from heaven, that is only for the believers. The unjust will be `naked,` not have a natural or a spiritual body. This is their great torment, as they will be alone forever, not able to have a body to appreciate all that God has for us - community, sharing, work, rulership, responsibility, spiritual food, etc, etc. 

 

`For  indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven; inasmuch as we, having put it on, shall not be found naked.`   (2 Cor. 5: 1 - 10)

 

I'm sorry, but you just haven't understood God's ways regarding the Heavenly dimension. Instead you apparently believe Christ's future eternal Kingdom is one of our fleshy bodies we have today. Thinking that means to completely miss what kind of body Paul was talking about in 1 Cor.15, as he even said flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,

 

No, I`m not meaning an earthly body, but a body like Christ`s, that can go through dimensions, is eternal & is made for the heavenly realms.

[iamlamad]

Hi Salty,

 

Yes we certainly disagree on these points.

 

I don`t see in God`s word that the just get resurrected & go into the Millennium, only those who God says were beheaded  (for God`s word) during the tribulation.

 

The gathering of the `elect,` (in Matt. 24: 25) is the scattered remanent of Israel after the Tribulation, as Isaiah also tells us. (Isa. 66: 18 - 21)

 

Also the unjust do not get bodies like angels. How can the unjust be given `clothing` from heaven, that is only for the believers. The unjust will be `naked,` not have a natural or a spiritual body. This is their great torment, as they will be alone forever, not able to have a body to appreciate all that God has for us - community, sharing, work, rulership, responsibility, spiritual food, etc, etc. 

 

`For  indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven; inasmuch as we, having put it on, shall not be found naked.`   (2 Cor. 5: 1 - 10)

What does the very term "resurrection" mean? It MUST included a body of some kind. We know that the spirit never dies, and the spirits of the unjust throughout all ages are sent to hell, so at the time of the great white throne judgment there would be no need for a "resurrection," but only a movement of people from hell to the judgment. However, since John tells us they will be resurrected, that means their OLD body will be reconstructed and raised (such as Lazarus) but then changed to an everlasting body of sime kind. It is very likely the unjust will have a different kind of body that the righteous.

 

For the righteous, when they die (after the cross), they go imediately to heaven. Are they given some kind of temporary body? I don't know. I do know that God has taken many people to heaven to SEE IT with their own eyes and allowed to return to earth to write and tell what they saw. One person in particular was talking to Abraham and asked him why he appeared different than some of the others they saw. Abraham answered that some of the elders had received their resurrecton bodies when Jesus rose from the dead. The others appeared to have a body, but it looked different.  However, all those in heaven and "in Christ" who have not been "resurrected" will return to earth to be clothed with a resurrection body. This body will come out of the GRAVE (the graves will be opened) meaning that God will put the OLD body back together and then change it to a resurrection body.  Resurrection then includes the SAME old body resurrected (such as those raised from the dead during Jesus ministry) but then CHANGED from mortality into immortality.

 

As for Jesus' statements in John 5, indeed all are raised in a hour, and probably in a minute of that hour, but for the just and unjust it will be a DIFFERENT HOUR. Jesus said, "the last day." He could well have been speaking of the Day of the Lord, rather than just a 24 hour day. The Day of the Lord will include the hour the Old Testament saints rise (at the 7th vial) and the day the unjust rise a thousand years later.

 

One thing we can be sure of, the dead in Christ rise in a hour (just pick one out of 24) in a day BEFORE the Day of the Lord as per 1 Thes. 5. This will most certainly be a DIFFERENT hour that the hour the Old Testament saints rise, wich will be at the 7th vial. Therefore, I don't think Jesus was telling us that all the dead, both the righteous and unrighteous will rise the very SAME hour. That theory simply does not fit the rest of scripture.

 

If only those beheaded of the Just get resurrected to go into the millennium, who are those seated on thrones before John mentions those who were beheaded? Of course, they are the resurrected Bride of Christ and the Old Testament saints who were resurrected at the 7th vial.

 

When Jesus spoke of one of the churches of Revelation being naked, I think he was referring to their SINS being visible, and not under the blood of Jesus Christ. Of course they wore clothes, but they did not have the "robe of righteousness."

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

The matter is much, much more simple than all that. The Biblical meaning of one that is "dead" in that future Millennium time simply means a soul with a spiritual body that is still... subject to the "second death" of being cast into the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years. John 5:28-29 by what our Lord Jesus said, both the just and unjust are resurrected on the day of His coming. On the Day of The Lord when Jesus comes, that will officially end this flesh world age type of body.

 

We were shown this 'spiritually' dead concept several times in The New Testament Gospels, and Apostle Paul covered in the Greek of 1 Cor.15. It is the contrast of a soul that is "born again" of The Spirit through Christ Jesus vs. those who are not and thus are still spirtiually 'dead' in their souls. Those not "born again" through Jesus will go through His thousand years reign as the 'dead'. It does not mean they are still in literal graves somewhere still waiting to be resurrected at the end of the Millennium.

[Floatingaxe]

The matter is much, much more simple than all that. The Biblical meaning of one that is "dead" in that future Millennium time simply means a soul with a spiritual body that is still... subject to the "second death" of being cast into the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years. John 5:28-29 by what our Lord Jesus said, both the just and unjust are resurrected on the day of His coming. On the Day of The Lord when Jesus comes, that will officially end this flesh world age type of body.

 

We were shown this 'spiritually' dead concept several times in The New Testament Gospels, and Apostle Paul covered in the Greek of 1 Cor.15. It is the contrast of a soul that is "born again" of The Spirit through Christ Jesus vs. those who are not and thus are still spirtiually 'dead' in their souls. Those not "born again" through Jesus will go through His thousand years reign as the 'dead'. It does not mean they are still in literal graves somewhere still waiting to be resurrected at the end of the Millennium.

 

The unrighteous dead from all ages past are still going to remain in their graves until the final Great White Throne Judgment....not Jesus' second coming. The passage in John 5 is talking about that final judgment, which will include many righteous who have come out of the Millennial Reign.

[Salty]

 

The unrighteous dead from all ages past are still going to remain in their graves until the final Great White Throne Judgment....not Jesus' second coming. The passage in John 5 is talking about that final judgment, which will include many righteous who have come out of the Millennial Reign.

 

 

Sorry, but that's a tradition, and not what God's Word actually reveals. By that you would have an impossible time accounting for those of the "synagogue of Satan" in Rev.3:9 that come to worship at the feet of Christ's elect during the thousand years.

 

Same with the Rev.22:14-15 verses which is Millennium timing showing the wicked existing outside the gates of the holy city while Christ's elect dwell within and have right to the Tree of Life. Even Ezekiel 47 shows the Tree of Life and God's River flowing out of the Millennium sanctuary, have you ever read that?

 

Likewise with the end of Zech.14, we are shown some of the nations that are left of those who came upon Jerusalem on the last day surviving with being required to go up to Jerusalem year to year during Christ's Millennium reign. Even the nation of Egypt is mentioned in that Millennium time.

 

Then of course there's the nations of Rev.20 that exist throughout Christ's Millennial reign, which is who Christ promised His elect would rule with Him over with "a rod of iron" (see also Psams 2).

 

And for certain, we know the "resurrection of life" in John 5:28-29 is not for after Christ's Millennium reign. Nor is it only... those beheaded for a witness for Jesus during the "great tribulation" the only ones that will reign with Him during the Millennium. Christ promised His 12 Apostles they each would sit upon thrones reigning over the 12 tribes of Israel in that time, and they certainly will not have gone through the "great tribulation" of the last days. Moreover, per The New Testament Gospels and Epistles, we well know not every believer on Christ Jesus will be killed during the "great tribulation", otherwise there would be no servant of Christ still on earth to go through the "last trump" change at the twinkling of an eye that Apostle Paul taught with the day of Christ's second coming.

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

The unrighteous dead from all ages past are still going to remain in their graves until the final Great White Throne Judgment....not Jesus' second coming. The passage in John 5 is talking about that final judgment, which will include many righteous who have come out of the Millennial Reign.

 

 

Sorry, but that's a tradition, and not what God's Word actually reveals. By that you would have an impossible time accounting for those of the "synagogue of Satan" in Rev.3:9 that come to worship at the feet of Christ's elect during the thousand years.

 

Same with the Rev.22:14-15 verses which is Millennium timing showing the wicked existing outside the gates of the holy city while Christ's elect dwell within and have right to the Tree of Life. Even Ezekiel 47 shows the Tree of Life and God's River flowing out of the Millennium sanctuary, have you ever read that?

 

Likewise with the end of Zech.14, we are shown some of the nations that are left of those who came upon Jerusalem on the last day surviving with being required to go up to Jerusalem year to year during Christ's Millennium reign. Even the nation of Egypt is mentioned in that Millennium time.

 

Then of course there's the nations of Rev.20 that exist throughout Christ's Millennial reign, which is who Christ promised His elect would rule with Him over with "a rod of iron" (see also Psams 2).

 

And for certain, we know the "resurrection of life" in John 5:28-29 is not for after Christ's Millennium reign. Nor is it only... those beheaded for a witness for Jesus during the "great tribulation" the only ones that will reign with Him during the Millennium. Christ promised His 12 Apostles they each would sit upon thrones reigning over the 12 tribes of Israel in that time, and they certainly will not have gone through the "great tribulation" of the last days. Moreover, per The New Testament Gospels and Epistles, we well know not every believer on Christ Jesus will be killed during the "great tribulation", otherwise there would be no servant of Christ still on earth to go through the "last trump" change at the twinkling of an eye that Apostle Paul taught with the day of Christ's second coming.

 

 

It isn't tradition. It is the word of God.

[iamlamad]

The matter is much, much more simple than all that. The Biblical meaning of one that is "dead" in that future Millennium time simply means a soul with a spiritual body that is still... subject to the "second death" of being cast into the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years. John 5:28-29 by what our Lord Jesus said, both the just and unjust are resurrected on the day of His coming. On the Day of The Lord when Jesus comes, that will officially end this flesh world age type of body.

 

We were shown this 'spiritually' dead concept several times in The New Testament Gospels, and Apostle Paul covered in the Greek of 1 Cor.15. It is the contrast of a soul that is "born again" of The Spirit through Christ Jesus vs. those who are not and thus are still spirtiually 'dead' in their souls. Those not "born again" through Jesus will go through His thousand years reign as the 'dead'. It does not mean they are still in literal graves somewhere still waiting to be resurrected at the end of the Millennium.

Salty, how could you write such things? Did you not read what John wrote?

 

"the sea gave up the dead which were in it"  These are people who DIED at sea and were buried at sea.

"death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them"  How does someone get into hell? By and through physical DEATH.

 

For those not buried at sea, but buried in a grave site somewhere, their bodies decayed in the grave, but thier Spirt and Soul went to hell.  A few verses before these we read:  "And when the thousand years are expired..." So this is the resurrection John was talking about here:  "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.." OF COURSE he is speaking of the body, not the spirit, for the human spirit and soul never dies. People are very much alive in hell, and in great torment 24/7.  So John tells us that even those in hell will one day resurrect from a mortal body that turned to dust, back into some kind of living flesh and bone body, to be tried at the great White Throne judgment.

 

LAMAD

[Salty]

 

The matter is much, much more simple than all that. The Biblical meaning of one that is "dead" in that future Millennium time simply means a soul with a spiritual body that is still... subject to the "second death" of being cast into the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years. John 5:28-29 by what our Lord Jesus said, both the just and unjust are resurrected on the day of His coming. On the Day of The Lord when Jesus comes, that will officially end this flesh world age type of body.

 

We were shown this 'spiritually' dead concept several times in The New Testament Gospels, and Apostle Paul covered in the Greek of 1 Cor.15. It is the contrast of a soul that is "born again" of The Spirit through Christ Jesus vs. those who are not and thus are still spirtiually 'dead' in their souls. Those not "born again" through Jesus will go through His thousand years reign as the 'dead'. It does not mean they are still in literal graves somewhere still waiting to be resurrected at the end of the Millennium.

Salty, how could you write such things? Did you not read what John wrote?

 

"the sea gave up the dead which were in it"  These are people who DIED at sea and were buried at sea.

"death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them"  How does someone get into hell? By and through physical DEATH.

 

For those not buried at sea, but buried in a grave site somewhere, their bodies decayed in the grave, but thier Spirt and Soul went to hell.  A few verses before these we read:  "And when the thousand years are expired..." So this is the resurrection John was talking about here:  "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.." OF COURSE he is speaking of the body, not the spirit, for the human spirit and soul never dies. People are very much alive in hell, and in great torment 24/7.  So John tells us that even those in hell will one day resurrect from a mortal body that turned to dust, back into some kind of living flesh and bone body, to be tried at the great White Throne judgment.

 

LAMAD

 

 

Those are expressions, because those Rev.20 Scriptures also call them "the dead" while they are standing in front of Christ at that Great White Throne Judgment after the Millennium. So how can they still be 'dead' while standing before Christ in Judgment?

 

It's simple. It's because they will be in resurrected bodies throughout the thousand years but still subject to the "second death", for ALL... must bow to Christ as King of kings, and Lord of lords in that time of His reign.

 

Furthermore, you no doubt have yet consider Rev.12 after the war in Heaven, when it says there is no more place in Heaven found for Satan and his angels. That means the abode of the wicked called 'hell' that Satan is over too, for it is in the heavenly dimension. So where will 'hell' be during the thousand years? It will be outside... the gates of the Holy City as we were shown in the Rev.22:14-15 verses about the wicked.

 

There will be no more flesh body after Christ's coming on the day of The Lord. That's why the ONLY type of death remaining thereafter is the "second death". And what is the "second death" per Rev.20?? It is the casting into the "lake of fire".

 

What all goes into the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years per Rev.20? The abode of 'hell', with the wicked, and death. The concept of death is over at that point, forever.

 

Does Satan and his angels need a 'flesh' body in order to be cast into that "lake of fire"? No. That's because it is not the physical kind of fire that we know during this present world, but God's consuming fire, for He is a consuming fire! That's what it will take to destroy their spirit and soul, which is what the "second death" is about.

 

Thus the coming resurrection at Christ's coming some call a 'general resurrection', because it includes a resurrection of both the just and the wicked dead. At that point the idea of 'living' is only in the spiritual sense of having eternal Life through Christ Jesus. If a soul is without Christ still then (i.e., not "born again"), then they are considered spiritually dead, because that is what is STILL dead, i.e., their spirit with soul. So it's like Jesus and His Apostles said, without being born of The Spirit none will 'see' the Kingdom of God (His Kingdom after the thousand years).

[Floatingaxe]

Not one believer will be standing before God at the GWT Judgment. Neither will one single believer b subject to the second death, for each righteous, redeemed person will have already ruled and reigned with Christ for that 1000 years previous to the judgment, in their translated, imperishable bodies. We will already, by that point, have received our rewards at the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ for the believer. There is no judgment for us.