Spark of life: Metabolism appears in lab without cells

[Enoch2021]

First,

 

As I alluded to (some time ago in this very thread) Abiogenesis is impossible via "Naturalistic" Processes.

 

DNA/RNA or "Functional Proteins" (just ONE) NEVER ever spontaneously Polymerize from outside an Already Existing Cell from amino's and nucleotides, Respectively.  That's just the Hardware!

 

Second,

 

I thought science was in the business of Observing Phenomenon then attempting to explain Causation and validating the process thru Experimentation?

 

You have: RNA World, Lipid World, Clay World, Bubble World et al, what world are they living in?  They are attempting to explain something (Abiogenesis) that has NEVER been OBSERVED.  Moreover, it has been VALIDATED Scientifically.....that Life only comes from Pre-Existing Life (SEE: Law of Biogenesis in 1864).

Is this Science in reverse..."ecneicS"? Can somebody please show Life coming from Non-Life....if not, The Inquiry is INVALID per the Scientific Method.  Nobody in the History of the World has ever OBSERVED it.  This inquiry that they've "conjured" is Tantamount to:

 

1. Attempting to explain mechanistically the exothermic pathway of Phlogiston.
2. Attempting to explain the Tectonic Plate movements on the Planet Vulcan.
3. Attempting to describe the chemistry of Lead morphing into Gold (Alchemy)
4. evolution
5. Big Bang
6. Black Holes

What do all these have in common?.... Phogiston, Vulcan, Alchemy, evolution, Big Bangs, Black Holes?  Neither has been OBSERVED and each has been "De-bunked" as "so-called" Theories.  More importantly, how can you invalidate something that has never been observed?  It can't be falsified!!  If it can't be falsified...it's meaningless!

 

All this (RNA, Lipid, Bubbles, et al) is, is a TEXTBOOK: "Argument from Ignorance" (Fallacy)----the truth of a premise is based on the fact that it has not been proven false.

 

And they're manipulating it in a LAB!  They're trying to prove it takes "No Intelligence" for life to arise...... by using Intelligence!!

 

Third,  Information!!

 

DNA is the Death Knell for evolution or any Naturalistic explanation.

 

The Genetic "CODE" is Software it's Immaterial.  Examine the Chemical Structure...where's the Information?  It's like examining the Motherboard/Microchips/Circuitry in an attempt to divine what Software Program is running....

 

"The meaning of the message will not be found in the physics and chemistry of the paper and ink" -Roger Sperry (neurobiologist and Nobel laureate)

 

The "CODE"/ message transcends the properties of the medium.

 

When you sit down @ the computer do you ever struggle with who/what Programmed it? 

 

Where does "CODE" (Encrypted) come from?  In the History of Mankind has Nature ever sent a Message?  To Source and Send Information requires Sentience and Intelligence:

 

DNA "CODE"/Software------------------Design (Intelligence)--------------------Designer!

 

Can it be Falsified? Yep, only Two:

 

1. Prove that the Genetic CODE is not....."CODE"/Software. OR....
2. Prove that Atoms/Molecules have Sentience and Intelligence.

 

This is really just "fog a mirror" reasoning.

 

(Matthew 11:25) "At that time Jesus answered and said,  I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

 

[Angelquill]

Suppose science ever does manage to create life in the lab.  (Don't hold your breath, btw.)

Do you think that would somehow prove that God does not exist?

No, my friend.

All that will have been proven is that God did, just as He said, begin with the dust of the ground.

 

Now, when science can begin with a total vacuum...a "nothingness"...and will it's own dust into existence...

 

well, then you might have a case.

 

Let us know when that happens...

[jerryR34]

First,

 

As I alluded to (some time ago in this very thread) Abiogenesis is impossible via "Naturalistic" Processes.

 

DNA/RNA or "Functional Proteins" (just ONE) NEVER ever spontaneously Polymerize from outside an Already Existing Cell from amino's and nucleotides, Respectively.  That's just the Hardware!

Please expand on this sans creationist website references and bible quotes.

 

thanks

[Fez]

 

First,

 

As I alluded to (some time ago in this very thread) Abiogenesis is impossible via "Naturalistic" Processes.

 

DNA/RNA or "Functional Proteins" (just ONE) NEVER ever spontaneously Polymerize from outside an Already Existing Cell from amino's and nucleotides, Respectively.  That's just the Hardware!

Please expand on this sans creationist website references and bible quotes.

 

thanks

 

How many time need it be explained that this is a Christian Ministry site, and trying to block believers stating their case while using scripture just won't happen? 

[jerryR34]

Sorry, I'm not tring to block anybody, and do not have that power.  I'm just trying to keep it to a scientific method based discussion which only deals with the natural and not super natural.  If creationism is viable in a scientific- method based argument what I am asking should not get me chastised.

 

Edited September 8, 2014 by jerryR34

[Fez]

Sorry, I'm not tring to block anybody, and do not have that power.  I'm just trying to keep it to a scientific method based discussion which only deals with the natural and not super natural.  If creationism is viable in a scientific- method based argument what I am asking should not get me chastised.

You, by your statement tried to direct the thread in the direction you wish it to go?

 

Allow those that may be interested in partaking in this thread to voice their own opinions, just as you have been allowed to state yours is all that is asked.

[jerryR34]

 

Sorry, I'm not tring to block anybody, and do not have that power.  I'm just trying to keep it to a scientific method based discussion which only deals with the natural and not super natural.  If creationism is viable in a scientific- method based argument what I am asking should not get me chastised.

You, by your statement tried to direct the thread in the direction you wish it to go?

 

Allow those that may be interested in partaking in this thread to voice their own opinions, just as you have been allowed to state yours is all that is asked.

 

OK, but I have seen too many threads here derailed from the OP.   Again, I have no power other than requesting parameters on the threads I start. 

[Enoch2021]

 

First,

 

As I alluded to (some time ago in this very thread) Abiogenesis is impossible via "Naturalistic" Processes.

 

DNA/RNA or "Functional Proteins" (just ONE) NEVER ever spontaneously Polymerize from outside an Already Existing Cell from amino's and nucleotides, Respectively.  That's just the Hardware!

Please expand on this sans creationist website references and bible quotes.

 

thanks

 

 

 

======================================================================================================

 

DNA/RNA or "Functional Proteins" NEVER ever form "Naturally" from Sugars, Bases, Phosphates, and Aminos, respectively. 

 

It's Basic Chemistry.

 

 

(Hebrews 11:3) "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

 

(Colossians 1:16-17) "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:  {17} And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

 

(Revelation 4:11) "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

[jerryR34]

 

 

It's Basic Chemistry.

 

 

(Hebrews 11:3) "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

 

(Colossians 1:16-17) "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:  {17} And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

 

(Revelation 4:11) "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

 

What in basic chemistry would lead you to the story of Christ without scripture?  If you can't answer that, then basic chemistry is not proof of Christ and you are bastardizing both.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

==============================================================================================

 

 

What in basic chemistry would lead you to the story of Christ without scripture?  If you can't answer that, then basic chemistry is not proof of Christ and you are bastardizing both.

 

Nothing.  The real question is why on earth would you create such a convoluted Strawman (Fallacy)??...do you prime the Flamethrower right before or just after you conjure these? 

 

I don't conclude anything whatsoever in a vacuum.  You must also have the ability to evaluate multiple lines of evidence and coalesce them into one coherent stream of thought to reach a logically sound conclusion.   How does Chemistry/Biochemistry fit in?  Well....

 

1.  DNA/RNA or "Functional Proteins" NEVER ever form "Naturally" from Sugars, Bases, Phosphates, and Aminos, respectively.  (It's Basic Chemistry)

 

2.  DNA "CODE"/Software------------------Design(Intelligence)--------------------Designer!  In the History of The World repeated Hundreds of Millions of Times......"CODE" always 100% of the time without failure when traced backed to it's source....comes from Intelligence.

 

Then....

 

You only have 2 choices: Random Chance (Nature) or Intelligent Design (GOD). The Laws of Physics, Chemistry/Biochemistry, Information, Specific Complexity, Irreducible Complexity, and Common Sense Rule Nature out...Laughingly so. If you summarily rule one of the choices out.... where does it leave you?

 

Based on the Law of Non-Contradiction--- 2 things that are contradictory can't be responsible @ the same time (or do you disagree?).  It's better stated as: either Randomness or Intelligent Design Created us and the Universe. This is not a False Dichotomy (Bifurcation Fallacy) because there is no THIRD CHOICE. Now if I summarily refute Randomness the choice MUST BE ID. YOU MAY THEN conjure thousands of possibilities under ID; however, it has ZERO to do with the tenets of first postulate.

 

Then.....

 

Logically, there can only be "One" CREATOR.

 

Then, I follow these (You remember this): 

 

 

Back to your query... and a comment.

 

Me: "DNA/RNA or "Functional Proteins" NEVER ever form "Naturally" from Sugars, Bases, Phosphates, and Aminos, respectively.  That's just the Hardware!"  (It's Basic Chemistry)

 

You: "Please expand on this sans creationist website references and bible quotes."

 

I liken this to....Whenever you're in Class and the Professor has been teaching a particularly difficult topic for multiple sessions, but you know some people have been daydreaming through parts... then one day they say, "OK, Test tomorrow, any questions".  Most intuitively know they are caught in a dilemma; "a pickle" using the parlance of our time; Why?  Well, depending on the length and magnitude of the daydreaming shenanigans, Once they ask a Question....The Jig is Up.  Because the Professor and everyone in the Class will know immediately right where your at.

 

So when you ask this ------->  ""Please expand on this...."  In response to -------->  DNA/RNA or "Functional Proteins" NEVER ever form "Naturally" from Sugars, Bases, Phosphates, and Aminos, respectively.  That's just the Hardware!"  (It's Basic Chemistry) Well......

 

The Jig is Up.

 

Thanks