the two witnesses?

[Guest Jesse]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 The good olive tree are all God's people and they are the saved from the JEWs and GENTILE, are the wild olive tree 

 

 and together they  are called the ISRAEL OF GOD (Gal 6:16), 

Yes I agree,but the olive tree is God the branches are the jews,but for now broken off.

The wild olive branches are grafted unto the tree = Christians;  also called spiritual israel.

 

jesse.

 

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

 

The tree is God: any branch that is broken off; it shall dry up and  perish.

The natural olive branch = jews are broken off for now, untill grafted back on during the thousand years. 

The gentiles are grafted in now = christians.(sspiritual jews).

The christians will be resurrected first,whom is last.(first.resurr).

And the jews will be resurrected last,whom was first.(secd. resurr).

 

jesse.

 

Those who are to be resurrected last are cursed not blessed . where did you get that the Jews will be resurrected last ? thanks 

 

Who is the wild olive tree if God is  natural good olive tree ? note  I did not say wild branches  Thanks 

 

 

Matthew 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. The jews were chosen first,but have rejected the Messiah. The christians were last, but have accepted the Messiah,therefore they will be resurrected in spirit first.

The jews in general are cursed;they will not enter into the rest(paradise).

But the chosen jews will enter into God's rest.

 

God is the natural olive tree; Jesus is the natural olive branch.(the branch)jer.23:5.6.

 

jesse.

 

Is God also the wild tree ? Why or Why not    

 

THe wild olive tree is the roots of the gentiles.

 

jesse.

[Persuaded]

 

Hebrews 9:27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

This scripture is often mis-used related to this debate. Paul is clearly speaking in broader terms relating to our responsibility to obtain salvation in this life, and that Christ's one-time death doesn't compare to the frequent sacrifices of the Levitical priesthood. In his argument, he is also refuting the heresy of reincarnation. But the "it is appointed" part of this verse is revealing: this is a general rule, to which there have been several exceptions throughout the Bible- how many times did the widow of Zarephath's son die? Or Jairus' daughter? Or Lazarus? Each clearly "violated" Heb 9:27 if it is taken as an absolute rule like this.

 

Since everything happens for a reason, where does that leave Enoch if it was Moses and Elijah?  Seems kind of pointless to take him for nothing.  Moses had served his purpose and Elijah had not died yet and so seems more likely that it would be Enoch & Elijah, but hey.. we shall all know for sure some day,

 

Well, what do we know about Enoch?

 

He was Methuselah's father:

[Gen 5:22 KJV] And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

 

Methuselah was the oldest living man in the Bible, yet he died before his father (fun Bible trivia). When Methuselah died, the flood came.

 

[Gen 5:23 KJV] And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

[Gen 5:24 KJV] And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.

 

Hey look, an OT rapture!

 

[Heb 11:5 KJV] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 

I wonder how many of us have that testimony, that we please God? I know He loves us, but does He also have to like us?

 

[Jde 1:14,15 KJV] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

 

Seventh from Adam. I'm not big into the numerology of the text, but there are some numbers that seem pretty hard to deny. Seven is "complete" (often ascribed to God so people casually associate seven with "divine", but that's not quite right since Satan has seven heads in Rev).

 

The other, earlier "seventh from Adam" in Gen 4 is Lamech, who does nothing good. We see a principle played out here:

 

[1Co 15:46 KJV] Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

and

[Heb 10:9 KJV] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

 

Enoch proclaimed God: "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints..." I think this also makes Enoch the earliest prophet.

 

So Enoch is an obedient witness.

 

In the flood we see three groups of people: those that perish in the flood, those that are preserved through the flood with Noah, and one that is raptured before the flood. Noah was an example of a Godly remnant of Israel preserved through judgment, and it is easy to see Enoch as an example of the Christian believer walking by faith and in obedience to God.

[justfaith]

 

 

Hebrews 9:27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

This scripture is often mis-used related to this debate. Paul is clearly speaking in broader terms relating to our responsibility to obtain salvation in this life, and that Christ's one-time death doesn't compare to the frequent sacrifices of the Levitical priesthood. In his argument, he is also refuting the heresy of reincarnation. But the "it is appointed" part of this verse is revealing: this is a general rule, to which there have been several exceptions throughout the Bible- how many times did the widow of Zarephath's son die? Or Jairus' daughter? Or Lazarus? Each clearly "violated" Heb 9:27 if it is taken as an absolute rule like this.

 

Since everything happens for a reason, where does that leave Enoch if it was Moses and Elijah?  Seems kind of pointless to take him for nothing.  Moses had served his purpose and Elijah had not died yet and so seems more likely that it would be Enoch & Elijah, but hey.. we shall all know for sure some day,

 

Well, what do we know about Enoch?

 

He was Methuselah's father:

[Gen 5:22 KJV] And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

 

Methuselah was the oldest living man in the Bible, yet he died before his father (fun Bible trivia). When Methuselah died, the flood came.

 

[Gen 5:23 KJV] And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

[Gen 5:24 KJV] And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.

 

Hey look, an OT rapture!

 

[Heb 11:5 KJV] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 

I wonder how many of us have that testimony, that we please God? I know He loves us, but does He also have to like us?

 

[Jde 1:14,15 KJV] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

 

Seventh from Adam. I'm not big into the numerology of the text, but there are some numbers that seem pretty hard to deny. Seven is "complete" (often ascribed to God so people casually associate seven with "divine", but that's not quite right since Satan has seven heads in Rev).

 

The other, earlier "seventh from Adam" in Gen 4 is Lamech, who does nothing good. We see a principle played out here:

 

[1Co 15:46 KJV] Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

and

[Heb 10:9 KJV] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

 

Enoch proclaimed God: "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints..." I think this also makes Enoch the earliest prophet.

 

So Enoch is an obedient witness.

 

In the flood we see three groups of people: those that perish in the flood, those that are preserved through the flood with Noah, and one that is raptured before the flood. Noah was an example of a Godly remnant of Israel preserved through judgment, and it is easy to see Enoch as an example of the Christian believer walking by faith and in obedience to God.

 

Moses and Elijah represented the dead and alive in Jesus at His second coming no rapture ?

[OneLight]

I see Revelation 11 speaking of two individual people God chooses to be His last day prophets. I don't see them as two groups of people at all. This is clearly seen in verses speaking of their deaths. If they were groups, that wold mean millions of people. Sorry, but trying to apply groups to the two witnesses does not work.

[other one]

Sam, and George....

[justfaith]

I see Revelation 11 speaking of two individual people God chooses to be His last day prophets. I don't see them as two groups of people at all. This is clearly seen in verses speaking of their deaths. If they were groups, that wold mean millions of people. Sorry, but trying to apply groups to the two witnesses does not work.

Is the church one person or a group of people ? thanks 

[justfaith]

Why the two witnesses are the jews and gentiles that make up  the church of God 

 

 the two witnesses which ARE the two olive trees as two GROUPS of people

 

“And if some of the branches be broken off, and YOU, being a WILD OLIVE TREE, and were grafted in among them, and with them are partakers of the root and fatness of THE OLIVE TREE:

Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.

You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I may be grafted in.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not high minded, but fear:

For if God spared not the NATURAL BRANCHES, take heed that he spare not you.

Behold therefore the goodness and the severity of Godn which them which fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, IF you CONTINUE in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.

For if it were cut out of the OLIVE TREE which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good OLIVE TREE; how much more shall these, which be the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Edited August 21, 2014 by justfaith

[justfaith]

 

 The good olive tree are all God's people and they are the saved from the JEWs and GENTILE, are the wild olive tree 

 

 and together they  are called the ISRAEL OF GOD (Gal 6:16), 

Yes I agree,but the olive tree is God the branches are the jews,but for now broken off.

The wild olive branches are grafted unto the tree = Christians;  also called spiritual israel.

 

jesse.

 

The TWO GROUPS of people who are the ONLY TWO WITNESSES in all the earth who stand for the only true and wise God ARE number 1, the true believers in Christ Jesus the Son of God, otherwise know as Christians or formally known as the WILD OLIVE TREE; and number 2, the other witness standing before the one true God is ISRAEL, which is the NATURAL OLIVE TREE.

So you see we have TWO different GROUPS of people who stand for the God of the earth, and it is these TWO GROUPS who are the TWO WITNESSES spoke of in the book of Revelation.

We can see these TWO GROUPS, the Jews, who believe in Almighty God the Father, and the Christians, those who believe in Jesus, the Son of God as their savior all through the book of Revelation as well as the rest of the word of God.

Take a look at Revelation 20:4 which says,“...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the WITNESS of Jesus AND for the WORD of God.”

  

 

thanks 

[Guest Jesse]

 

 

 The good olive tree are all God's people and they are the saved from the JEWs and GENTILE, are the wild olive tree 

 

 and together they  are called the ISRAEL OF GOD (Gal 6:16), 

Yes I agree,but the olive tree is God the branches are the jews,but for now broken off.

The wild olive branches are grafted unto the tree = Christians;  also called spiritual israel.

 

jesse.

 

The TWO GROUPS of people who are the ONLY TWO WITNESSES in all the earth who stand for the only true and wise God ARE number 1, the true believers in Christ Jesus the Son of God, otherwise know as Christians or formally known as the WILD OLIVE TREE; and number 2, the other witness standing before the one true God is ISRAEL, which is the NATURAL OLIVE TREE.

So you see we have TWO different GROUPS of people who stand for the God of the earth, and it is these TWO GROUPS who are the TWO WITNESSES spoke of in the book of Revelation.

We can see these TWO GROUPS, the Jews, who believe in Almighty God the Father, and the Christians, those who believe in Jesus, the Son of God as their savior all through the book of Revelation as well as the rest of the word of God.

Take a look at Revelation 20:4 which says,“...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the WITNESS of Jesus AND for the WORD of God.”

  

 

thanks 

 

Just faith.

 

Please explain why they(the two) are taken up. verse 11.12.

And then after, the 7th trumpet, which is the resurrection? verse 15.

 

 

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

DEAD BODIES?

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

GRAVES?

 

Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

 

ALL OF THEM JEWS AND CHRISTIANS?

Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

jesse.

 

[OneLight]

I see Revelation 11 speaking of two individual people God chooses to be His last day prophets. I don't see them as two groups of people at all. This is clearly seen in verses speaking of their deaths. If they were groups, that wold mean millions of people. Sorry, but trying to apply groups to the two witnesses does not work.

Is the church one person or a group of people ? thanks

The church is the body of Christ, made up of many parts, but the church is not one of the two witnesses God sends, neither is Christ.