The Contradicting Preachers???

[Work in Progress]

Cara:

1. Alter calls are not necessary, but neither are they discouraged. As far as contradictory - the H.S works in the persons life as they hear the message (the "enabling" you speak of) and the Pastor gives it a bit more drama and meaning (for lack of better words) by the alter call. It's also a little "push", if anyone is shying back.

2. You needn't "lay on the floor" to get saved.

3.

I think that this is how we end up haveing people that are not really saved, just think they are.

Exactly. One huge problem with these t.v preachers.

4. Turn of the television preachers. 99.9% of them are charlatans.

[Guest He's taking names]

God has given us free will to make the choice to meet Him and accept the love and redemption He offers us Thank you Lord Jesus!!! ...but God also knows our hearts and knows the decisions we will make before we even make them...rest assured YOU still have to make the choice...any clearer?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can not say i agree brother, As I studied in the book of Romans God Chooses us. Yes man has free will but, not to accpect Christ or not..if God chooses you, you cant say no...God has the power to change our hearts...wait he don't even change them he made them so he is the potter with the clay shapeing us into whatever he wants, if a believer is what he wants he makes a believer, you cant say oh wait no no no God i have free will I refuse. You free will is out the window on that one. Read Romans again and then well talk.

p.s. I do hate this topic because arguments come out of it and i hate arguing with brother when there are millions of unbelievers out there. We are on the same team. Basically your saying you made the choice. Umm don't be so selfish it nothing you or I did all credit and glory for me and you not being fallen sinner forever is ALL because of God's doing. Agree yet? lol

Peace be with you

Love Cara

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sorry if i upset you there...you seem a little upset even if you're not. sorry again if i upset you. I know we're on the same team! I wasn't posting as an argument just a discussion!

Yes I did and do still make choices. That doesn't mean the "credit" and glory go to me that would be stupid! of course the salvation I have received (offered to all) is only possible through our Lord Jesus Christ! God's heart is for the sinner, the unbeliever, the lost! He has called us all to Him through Jesus. My own experience of finding His love has not been one where I have stopped making choices. I constantly have to make the choice to live correctly, to give my life to Him on a daily/hourly/by the minute basis...through His strength this is possible but i'm still making choices, just as i made the choice to give my life to Him.

YES God prepared my heart and shaped my life and circumstances to meet with Him, YES in a way I'm not going to get into here He was DEFO the one who called me not the other way around, but I still had to make the choice to listen, hear and understand/obey Him..just as I do everyday.

Am I misunderstanding something? am i wrong? I'm more than willing to accept I might be please discuss...sorry once again if it seemed like i was arguing.

In His love

[Guest CaraStar7]

, but I still had to make the choice to listen, hear and understand/obey Him..just as I do everyday.

I'll say this...if you are choosing to listen hear ad understand than your stating that just as you have the power to say yes once you have been called, you also have the power to say no. This I disagree with, I believe that once we are called by God to be saved for Jesus the choice of saying no doesn't exist! You can say you have a choice but no real saved person ever says no therefore eliminating the no answer. Therefore cuting out your choices, therefore its no longer a choice. If the Lord predestined you to be a believer there is no saying no, what kind of God would that be? Alright let break it down like this...in my own experience I did cry out to Him on my own, than was saved which he did on His own. Clear there? Alright now go back to why I even called out to Him....God enabled me to do so, He put it in my heart to cry out to Him and then He saved me. So I don't really see where I made a choice. Right now I could never even think of like being able to turn back and He says once your with me your with me forever. Like this one girl said that God left her??? Sorry wouldn't you agree that he was truly never with her? Alright thanks for your time brother

I Him divine name...Amen

Love Cara

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

How do we know that the SPIRIT hasnt moved or stirred the person's heart while the preacher was preaching?The preacher doesnt know the heart of the person coming up front to receive JESUS.He has to rely on the moving power of GOD.To say that theres a contriction here I would have to say no.GOD called these preachers to do HIS will.We cant questioned rather these folks really recieved the HOLY SPIRIT or not.It wouldnt be the preacher's fault would it?Hmmmm

[Kabowd]

I've posted this before, but it pertains to this topic..so I'll re-post it:

Before we are saved, this is the state we are in:

* We do not understand God (Romans 3:11)

* We do not seek God (Romans 3:11)

* We have a mind that is hostile towards God (Romans 8:7)

* We cannot submit to God (Romans 8:7)

* We are dead in sin (Ephesians 2:1) - What can a dead man do for himself?

* We have a heart of stone towards God (Ezekiel 36:26)

* We love darkness, we hate the light (John 3:10)

* We desire to do the will of satan (John 8:44)

* We follow satan (Ephesians 2:2)

* We are enslaved by sin (John 8:34)

* We are unable to please God (Romans 8:8)

* We don't understand spiritual things (1 Corinthians 2:14)

Salvation is a work of God's grace, through the work of the Holy Spirit - who gives us the gift of faith in Christ Jesus. There is absolutely no "work" on our part. Here is somewhat of a summary of the work that God does on our behalf:

* He is the One who seeks us (John 4:23, Luke 19:10)

* He opens hearts (Acts 16:14)

* He changes hearts (Ezekiel 36:26)

* He causes to be born again..through a work of the Holy Spirit (John 3:3-8)

* He makes alive those who are dead (Eph. 2:5)

* He does the calling (I Peter 2:21)

* He adopts us (Gal. 4:4-7)

* He reconciles enemies by the death of His Son (Romans 5:10)

* He gives understanding (I Cor. 2:12-13)

* He gives knowledge (2 Cor. 4:4)

* He gives us the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 12:3)

* He draws people to Himself (John 6:44; John 12:32)

"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." ~ Romans 12:3

At this point in my life, I'm not sure to what extent I believe in Calvinism..because some of it is really hard for me to grasp (limited atonement, election, etc). However, the Scripture overwhelmingly supports the fact that God does the work on our behalf. This goes all the way back to His covenant with Abraham, His choice of Israel, His choice of David as king...down to Christ saying He has chosen us. At this point, what I'm believing is that God opens up our will (Acts 16:14) so that we are able to accept the faith He gives us (Eph. 2:8). Basically, the point I'm making here is that a dead person (who has a heart of stone, is hostile towards God, is not seeking God and doesn't understand the things of God) cannot make himself alive, cannot choose God, cannot submit to God and cannot "have faith" - unless it is granted to him.