Guest shiloh357 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 You mean plants can't survive one night without the sun? The work of creating the plants finished that evening and night and the sun was made the next day...essentially one full night. Not that anyone is sticking to reality with this, but imagine how cold our planet would be without the sun... That doesn't make any difference when God is sustaining all life on it. You live in a skewed reality that assumes the natural world is all there is. It is entirely pointless to debate you on scientific grounds when you can invoke the supernatural whenever it suits you. That is why we need to keep God out of science classes. How would it look on a biology exam to just say "because God said so..."? The word "science" means "knowledge." It doesn't really refer to a particular kind of knowledge. So the word science in its purest and strictest definition doesn't rule out knowledge of God. And you are oversimplifying things. No one is discounting science at all. The problem is that science depends on a Creator who is logical and is able to create a universe that is predictable, logical and uniform. Without predictable uniformity, you can't do science. If the universe isn't consistent and logical and uniform, astronomers can't make predictions. God is at the bottom of all natural forces and processes, guiding and sustaining them. Science cannot work from chance or happenstance. Sorry, I should clarify...when I refer to science I am referring to the scientific method. The scientific method deals with observations of the natural world. Occam's razor would preclude any supernatural agency. No it wouldn't. An all-knowing all-powerful creator is the best explanation for how the universe came into being. A book is testimony to the author. A song is testimony of its composer, a computer program is testimony of its designer. So it makes sense that creation is testimony of its Creator. Occam's razor would most definitely apply in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryR34 Posted June 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/22/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1969 Share Posted June 3, 2014 You mean plants can't survive one night without the sun? The work of creating the plants finished that evening and night and the sun was made the next day...essentially one full night. Not that anyone is sticking to reality with this, but imagine how cold our planet would be without the sun... That doesn't make any difference when God is sustaining all life on it. You live in a skewed reality that assumes the natural world is all there is. It is entirely pointless to debate you on scientific grounds when you can invoke the supernatural whenever it suits you. That is why we need to keep God out of science classes. How would it look on a biology exam to just say "because God said so..."? The word "science" means "knowledge." It doesn't really refer to a particular kind of knowledge. So the word science in its purest and strictest definition doesn't rule out knowledge of God. And you are oversimplifying things. No one is discounting science at all. The problem is that science depends on a Creator who is logical and is able to create a universe that is predictable, logical and uniform. Without predictable uniformity, you can't do science. If the universe isn't consistent and logical and uniform, astronomers can't make predictions. God is at the bottom of all natural forces and processes, guiding and sustaining them. Science cannot work from chance or happenstance. Sorry, I should clarify...when I refer to science I am referring to the scientific method. The scientific method deals with observations of the natural world. Occam's razor would preclude any supernatural agency. No it wouldn't. An all-knowing all-powerful creator is the best explanation for how the universe came into being. A book is testimony to the author. A song is testimony of its composer, a computer program is testimony of its designer. So it makes sense that creation is testimony of its Creator. Occam's razor would most definitely apply in this way. Show me how God is in E=MC2. A mathematician may believe in God, but he will reduce all equations down to their simplest form, and not will include a creator. Can you give me one lab experiment that would be enhanced by including God in the experiment? Not including him does not make him irrelevent - it amazes me how fragile some people's faith is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Show me how God is in E=MC2. A mathematician may believe in God, but he will reduce all equations down to their simplest form, and not will include a creator. Can you give me one lab experiment that would be enhanced by including God in the experiment? Not including him does not make him irrelevent - it amazes me how fragile some people's faith is... God created the laws of physics and all of the forces of the Universe that makes that equation possible. That the entire universe can be reduced to mathematical equations indicates a Creator and designer. It's not that the lab experiment would be enhanced by including God. Rather it the one doing the experiment that is changed or enhanced to see the glory of God in science. Science is a way of exploring the scope of God's creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryR34 Posted June 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/22/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1969 Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Show me how God is in E=MC2. A mathematician may believe in God, but he will reduce all equations down to their simplest form, and not will include a creator. Can you give me one lab experiment that would be enhanced by including God in the experiment? Not including him does not make him irrelevent - it amazes me how fragile some people's faith is... God created the laws of physics and all of the forces of the Universe that makes that equation possible. That the entire universe can be reduced to mathematical equations indicates a Creator and designer. It's not that the lab experiment would be enhanced by including God. Rather it the one doing the experiment that is changed or enhanced to see the glory of God in science. Science is a way of exploring the scope of God's creation. The Bible is not meant to be a science book, if it were, there would have been much more detailed revelations given in other areas of science. It was revealed to relatively ignorant people in the infancy of our civilization in terms they could understand. The Creation story was just that, a story for those people put in the simplest terms. All civilizations have a creation myth, and creation is evidence for all of them. When you try to make the Bible into a science book you degrade God's word. Edited June 3, 2014 by jerryR34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 The Bible is not meant to be a science book, if it were, there would have been much more detailed revelations given in other areas of science. The Bible isn't a science book. But nature is a "book" about God. Creation reveals an all-powerful, all-knowing, omnipresent God who sustains and guides it. It reveals His power and His glory. It was revealed to relatively ignorant people in the infancy of our civilization in terms they could understand. That really isn't true. The Bible is written to people living in a time period where amazing feats of engineering and an advanced knowledge of physics were already in play and people were already calculating the orbit of the earth around the sun, calculating the circumference of the planet, observing the planetary movements and so on. They were far more sophisticated and technologically advanced in many areas than we give them credit. Their understanding was limited in some areas, but they were not the ignorant people you make them out to be. The Creation story was just that, a story for those people put in the simplest terms. All civilizations have a creation myth, and creation is evidence for all of them. The Bible's story of creation bears virtually no resemblance from those creation accounts and if you knew anything about them, you would know that. When you try to make the Bible into a science book you degrade God's word. That is a false statement to make since i never claimed it was a science book in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 When you try to make the Bible into a science book you degrade God's word. ~ Beloved, When A Science Book Is Made Into One's Bible Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Matthew 24:35 He Has Degraded Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 John 5:21 His Eternal Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12 Soul Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11 ~ And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gray wolf Posted June 3, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,046 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 194 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/30/1960 Share Posted June 3, 2014 All that is a backdrop. Nature follows mechanisms and laws which I believe were set in motion by the Creator. It is the function of science to understand and help us to live better lives. It is not a religious exercise, but if ultimate questions are raised, why not use science to examine them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Show me how God is in E=MC2. In The Big Bang But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10 Prophesy And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:1-5 ~ Beloved, I Think You Really Ought Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 To Get A "Yes He Can" Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me? Jeremiah 32:27 Bible So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 ~ Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Your Brother Joe ~ The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter. Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed. Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a Paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given to you in life, will be open in the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and condemns all who trifle with its holy precepts. From The Front Of My Gideon New Testament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 ....Nature follows mechanisms and laws which I believe were set in motion by the Creator. It is the function of science to understand and help us to live better lives. It is not a religious exercise, but if ultimate questions are raised, why not use science to examine them? Creation Follows (Mechanisms And Laws?) The Will Of The LORD God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend. For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength. Job 37:5-6 And It Is Kept In Motion By While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. Genesis 8:22 It's Creator For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Colossians 1:16 Jesus And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:17 And It Is One Of The Privileges Of Science He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end. Ecclesiastes 3:11 To Observe, To Measure And To Test Answerable Questions By his knowledge the deeps broke open, and the clouds drop down the dew. Proverbs 3:20 (ESV) In An Attempt To Model Phenomenon, To Predict (Non-Supernatural) Events For wisdom will come into your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul; discretion will watch over you, understanding will guard you, Proverbs 2:10-11 (ESV) And Not By Delving Into The Metaphysical World or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 1 Timothy 1:4 (NIV) Of Whispering Spirits You turn things upside down! Shall the potter be regarded as the clay, that the thing made should say of its maker, “He did not make me”; or the thing formed say of him who formed it, “He has no understanding”? Isaiah 29:16 (ESV) And Deceit Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding irreverent, empty speech and contradictions from the "knowledge" that falsely bears that name. 1 Timothy 6:20 (HCSB) As I See It He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them. 1 Samuel 2:8 ~ Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Your Brother Joe ~ Sadly, Too Often Science Seems To Build On What Has Been Believed Before Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing! Ezekiel 13:3 Whereas Faith Builds On What For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:17 Has Been Reveled Before So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 ....am not sure what scientism is.... Beloved, Scientism Is The Mythos It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63 That Science Alone Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3 Can Render For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 2 Peter 3:5 (ESV) Truth And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. Mark 16:6 About The World Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him, because all that is in the world (the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the arrogance produced by material possessions) is not from the Father, but is from the world. And the world is passing away with all its desires, but the person who does the will of God remains forever. 1 John 2:15-17 (NET) And Dear Brother, You And I Both Know Better For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. Romans 8:14-17 (ESV) Love, Your Brother Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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