Need Hebrew Scholar or Very Wise

[Catsmeow]

Problem Understanding Leviticus

Here's the scripture itself concerning Mosaic Law:

Leviticus 11:20-42

20 `Every teeming creature which is flying, which is going on four -- an abomination it [is] to you. 21 `Only -- this ye do eat of any teeming thing which is flying, which is going on four, which hath legs above its feet, to move with them on the earth; 22 these of them ye do eat: the locust after its kind, and the bald locust after its kind, and the beetle after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind; 23 and every teeming thing which is flying, which hath four feet -- an abomination it [is] to you. 24 `And by these ye are made unclean, any one who is coming against their carcase is unclean till the evening; 25 and anyone who is lifting up [aught] of their carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean till the evening: -- 26 even every beast which is dividing the hoof, and is not cloven-footed, and the cud is not bringing up -- unclean they [are] to you; any one who is coming against them is unclean. 27 `And any one going on its paws, among all the beasts which are going on four -- unclean they [are] to you; any one who is coming against their carcase is unclean until the evening; 28 and he who is lifting up their carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean until the evening -- unclean they [are] to you. 29 `And this [is] to you the unclean among the teeming things which are teeming on the earth: the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after its kind, 30 and the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole; 31 these [are] the unclean to you among all which are teeming; any one who is coming against them in their death is unclean till the evening. 32 `And anything on which any one of them falleth, in their death, is unclean, of any vessel of wood or garment or skin or sack, any vessel in which work is done is brought into water, and hath been unclean till the evening, then it hath been clean; 33 and any earthen vessel, into the midst of which [any] one of them falleth, all that [is] in its midst is unclean, and it ye do break. 34 `Of all the food which is eaten, that on which cometh [such] water, is unclean, and all drink which is drunk in any [such] vessel is unclean; 35 and anything on which [any] of their carcase falleth is unclean (oven or double pots), it is broken down, unclean they [are], yea, unclean they are to you. 36 `Only -- a fountain or pit, a collection of water, is clean, but that which is coming against their carcase is unclean; 37 and when [any] of their carcase falleth on any sown seed which is sown -- it [is] clean; 38 and when water is put on the seed, and [any] of its carcase hath fallen on it -- unclean it [is] to you. 39 `And when any of the beasts which are to you for food dieth, he who is coming against its carcase is unclean till the evening; 40 and he who is eating of its carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean till the evening; and he who is lifting up its carcase doth wash his garments, and hath been unclean till the evening. 41 `And every teeming thing which is teeming on the earth is an abomination, it is not eaten; 42 any thing going on the belly, and any going on four, unto every multiplier of feet, to every teeming thing which is teeming on the earth -- ye do not eat them, for they [are] an abomination;

Okay, I realize this may seem silly but the whole notion that a tortoise or turtle is unclean and an abomination is beyond my comprehension.

I have always maintained I beleive the Bible cover to cover but I have to be honest...there are parts of Mosaic law that totally blow me away.

WHY? Why on earth would God call a poor little turtle an abomination? I used to have one as a pet and they're as cute as can be.

Is there some deeper, symbolic reason God has it in for these poor, simple creatures?

Sorry, but this confuses me to no end...DISCLAIMER: I am an "animal lover".

[Leonard]

The concept is NOT that the animal is 'evil', but that it renders the eater 'ritually impure.' Rhyme or reason to that? I'm not sure. Opinions abound.....

[Guest yod]

God is an animal lover too!

The turtle is not an abomination...but eating one is.

[Catsmeow]

Why?

It's okay to eat cows and goats and birds and fish but a tortoise? What would make it so horrible?

Is there some reason God discloses why some animals are an abomination (to eat)?

I'm JUST trying to understand our complex Creator. I'm sure His reasons are wonderful but does anybody know what they are?

[Leonard]

Reasons are not given in the Scripture. Among the conjectures is the idea that anything that doesn't conform to the 'normal' expected in its environment is taboo, like fish 'without scales' are unclean, so shell fish, octopus, catfish, etc. are unclean.

The turtle living in the water, but not having scales would be unclean. The turtle, a land animal, but laying eggs would for the same reasons be unclean.

Still God doesn't tell us WHY, He just says it is so.

[Catsmeow]

Not to get off topic but I am required for medical reasons to take two different types of prescribed Calcium compounds....one is Coral Calcium and the other is a gel cap.

I guess these are pretty pricey and can't be bought OTC. I had my thyroid removed so my blood calcium levels are low without them. Without the prescribed calcium, I'd go into convulsions.

The source of the calcium is, naturaly, coral shells ...not so unlike lobster or crab or other shelled creatures.

Without these creatures, I'd end up in the ER within 24 hours.

Whadya do? I'm in the same boat as someon on insulin. Without the calcium, I'm in BIG trouble.

NOTE: I can't take just OTC calcium; it has to be specially formulated.

[Guest shiloh357]

Not to get off topic but I am required for medical reasons to take two different types of prescribed Calcium compounds....one is Coral Calcium and the other is a gel cap.

I guess these are pretty pricey and can't be bought OTC. I had my thyroid removed so my blood calcium levels are low without them. Without the prescribed calcium, I'd go into convulsions.

The source of the calcium is, naturaly, coral shells ...not so unlike lobster or crab or other shelled creatures.

Without these creatures, I'd end up in the ER within 24 hours.

Whadya do? I'm in the same boat as someon on insulin. Without the calcium, I'm in BIG trouble.

NOTE: I can't take just OTC calcium; it has to be specially formulated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually alot of calcium supplements are extracted from oyster shells as well.

I would not worry about it too much, Cats.

Frankly I cannot imagine eating turtle even if it was kosher. Blech!!!!! Does not sound appetizing whatsoever. I can eat anything if I am in the wilderness and have to eat for survival, but would not purposely order turtle as an entree!!

I personally think there should have been another kosher category: Things that are not kosher on the grounds of grossness. i.e., tongue, heart, liver, brains, gizzards, etc. I used to work in a deli years ago, and had to serve things to people that I would not even feed a dog!!

[nebula]

Hey, Cats!

I concur that this list refers to animals that are "unclean for consumption" - not that the animals themselves are evil.

If you will notice, the animals listed have been found to have elements that are "unsafe" if you will. We can get away with many of these things in our country because we grow and or process them under strict conditions. But the forbidden animals are scavengers, carrion-eaters, carnivores, etc. Think of this: oysters and clams are filter feeders - as in, eating them is like eating a filter - and you know that filters tend to collect what they filter - catch my drift? Also, many of these animals in the wild are disease and worm carriers.

I've heard that if you ever travel to a third world country where food is not kept under the strict sanitary laws we have, it would be very wise to eat kosher!

That being ssid, I wouldn't worry about the coral shells. The Levitical law is refering to the animals themselves. Shells are just a collection of minerals. Calcium is a major one of those minerals. Basically, it's a convenient calcium resource. I don't think in those days they had the ability to process the minerals from things the way we can now, so the issue of consuming shells or processed components of that shell, I am sure, had no need to be addressed!

I hope this makes sense.

[Leonard]

I think I see what you're driving at, Sis. The New Testament Christian is under NO SUCH DIETARY RESTRICTIONS for religious reasons. Peter's vision taught him clearly--and ought to have taught the Church by this time--not to call anything 'unclean' which God has cleansed.

And Sis, I believe can grow you a whole new, and perfectly healthy thyroid.

[Guest yod]

I think I see what you're driving at, Sis.  The New Testament Christian is under NO SUCH DIETARY RESTRICTIONS for religious reasons.  Peter's vision taught him clearly--and ought to have taught the Church by this time--not to call anything 'unclean' which God has cleansed. 

And Sis, I believe can grow you a whole new, and perfectly healthy thyroid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Leonard...I think this is the first time I will disagree with you.

That vision had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with food.

In only a few verses later in the same chapter, Kefa (Peter) interprets the dream. He says that God was showing him that (formerly considered unclean) GENTILES were made clean by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.