Budman Posted January 2, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 407 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2005 I have a question: If someone who is not saved receives brain damage from either drug/alcohol abuse or an accident and becomes "retarded" (sorry for the non-PC word) be damned to hell at the end of their life, even though the ability to choose or reject Christ is gone? warm regards -bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 2, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,250 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,981 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2005 I really don't know, but my master is truly a just and fair entity, and I trust not only my future, but the future of everyone. They will not be mistreated in any way...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted January 2, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 281 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 789 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2005 Since, we can't judge we really can't say yes or no. Only God knows where there heart is and that is where he takes all things in to consideration. Also Just because they can not communicate the way they use does not mean that they can't communicate their love for Jesus. You now have to take them where they are at and re tell them the love that God has for them just like anyone else. God will be the final answer no matter health or impairments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted January 2, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted January 2, 2005 If someone who is not saved receives brain damage from either drug/alcohol abuse or an accident and becomes "retarded" (sorry for the non-PC word) be damned to hell at the end of their life, even though the ability to choose or reject Christ is gone? Greetings Budman, I am not saying that the following stories are stories of "salvation", but I believe they are indicative of Christ's ability "to save": Mark 9:17-27 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit; 18 And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. 19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me. 20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming. 21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child. 22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. 23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. 24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. 25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. 26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead. 27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose. Mark 5:1-13 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes. 2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand) and were choked in the sea. This boy and man were "possessed" and had no ability to come to the Lord. I think we can derive from this, that if we were to have a friend in the condition you describe, we should take him/her to the presence of God and present him/her to Him for "salvation". Remember the prayers of a righteous man is powerful and effective to the pulling down of "strongholds". Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repent1 Posted January 2, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2005 (edited) I have a question: If someone who is not saved receives brain damage from either drug/alcohol abuse or an accident and becomes "retarded" (sorry for the non-PC word) be damned to hell at the end of their life, even though the ability to choose or reject Christ is gone? warm regards -bud <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Greetings Budman, God's blessings I think that the answer to your question is mercy, God's Mercy!!!!!!!! [Romans 9:15-16] 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. To quote Ray: Since, we can't judge we really can't say yes or no. Only God knows where there heart is and that is where he takes all things in to consideration. Mercy was always a product of grace (God's omnipotent power working on our behalf) as demonstrated by Paul's testimony: [i Timothy 1:13-14] 13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. Those who don't believe the testimony of God, for whatever reason, or lose the ability to choose or reject Christ will have to rely on God's mercy at Judgment. Walking (operating) with you in the spirit of peace and love, your brethren in Christ, Repent1... Edited January 2, 2005 by Repent1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His son Posted January 2, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 764 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2005 I have a question: If someone who is not saved receives brain damage from either drug/alcohol abuse or an accident and becomes "retarded" (sorry for the non-PC word) be damned to hell at the end of their life, even though the ability to choose or reject Christ is gone? warm regards -bud <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This should answer that question for you. Keep in mind that we don't have to know the how, why, and or when. Rom 14:9-13 living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. (KJV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted January 2, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I was unaware that salvation was dependent on the proper functioning of the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted January 2, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 407 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/09/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 I was thinking that if the person was above the age of accountability when the brain damage occurred, then the person would be damned. warm regards -bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted January 3, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I was thinking that if the person was above the age of accountability when the brain damage occurred, then the person would be damned. You might ask yourself what importance the "body" including the "brain" has to do with salvation. Paul tells us that exercise of the body is good, but it counts for nothing. It is our "soul" and "spirit" that really count. Have you ever spoken to a brain traumitized inidividual in the "spirit"? Can you look into his/her soul? I know that some have, but I and probably most others have not. The best you can do is pray for them and read the Bible to them and surround them with Christ's love. That is the best we can ask of anyone. It is God who gives the increase. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithfulFollower Posted January 3, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 349 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1984 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Budman, Interesting that such a question would be asked. Truthfully this is how I see it, seeing as a family member of which is held very dear within my own heart has a condition of which many a fool has labeled her retarded on account of. From what has been seen of those who are like my younger sibling many of those who are claimed to be slow have been often times found to have a deep love for Christ, especailly if raised within a Christian home. Also, think of biblical scriptures, are not the pure in heart allowed to see God? Ones such as my younger sibling are indeed pure at heart if not found rather meek in nature. Our Heavenly Father is a loving and caring God, if He were not a God of mercy there would be no doubt in the mind that those such as my precious younger sibling would end up in the eternal fire. However, seeing as how compassionate God was to send forth His son, my opinion would beg to differ. My appologies for ruffling any feathers. Woke at six a.m. this morning, and may have done so in rather foul spirits. With Love In Christ, Danielle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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