Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?

[Enoch2021]

 Enoch2021 all you just said is only your opinion, it is not written in the Book. Now the second coming of the Lord, and the first resurrection ARE clearly written in the Book, REV : 20     Checkmate!!!!!

 

 

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Enoch2021 all you just said is only your opinion, it is not written in the Book

 

 

Hardly

 

 

Checkmate!!!!!

 

 

Checkmate, eh?

 

Ok, as I have asked you Multiple Times without response....

 

1.  Please show the "Resurrection" in Chapter 20?

 

2.  Please Identify the "Resurrect--ees",  Specifically.....?

[Marilyn C]

Hi Enoch2021,

 

I`m still putting my thoughts down, but do you realise that - Queen to King`s pawn is face to face, up close & personal, someone`s going to be check mate or taken off the board if they don`t have proper back up, as you so rightly say. Just having fun here.

 

Marilyn.

[ENOCH2010]

Checkmate, eh?



Ok, as I have asked you Multiple Times without response....



1. Please show the "Resurrection" in Chapter 20?



2. Please Identify the "Resurrect--ees", Specifically.....? 

 

 

 

1) The first resurrection written about in Rev.:20 happens at the second coming of the Lord, which is written about in Rev:19 

 

2) The dead in Christ. 

 

 

3) checkmate again!!!!!! 

 

 

Now for your move Enoch2021, Show us a pre trib rapture in the book of Revelation.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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1) The first resurrection written about in Rev.:20 happens at the second coming of the Lord, which is written about in Rev:19

2) The dead in Christ.

 

 

Please Identify Each "Specifically" in Scripture....?

 

That's Book/Chapter/Verse....Preferably, Copy and Paste the Scripture IN TOTO with The Subject and Principles you are speaking to, For Example:

 

I say the "Wife" is @ the Marriage Supper in Revelation 19, As Evidenced By:

 

(Revelation 19:7-9) "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.  {8} And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.  {9} And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

 

 

It's not: too much to ask, standard for support...and should be easy to show if what you say is TRUE.

 

 

Show us a pre trib rapture in the book of Revelation.

 

 

 

It's not....That's the Point 

[Enoch2021]

Hi Enoch2021,

 

I`m still putting my thoughts down, but do you realise that - Queen to King`s pawn is face to face, up close & personal, someone`s going to be check mate or taken off the board if they don`t have proper back up, as you so rightly say. Just having fun here.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

Too funny.  Who started this Checkmate stuff anyway?  

 

Take your time...dot all the "I's" and Cross the "T's"      

[Marilyn C]

Hi Enoch2021,

You would beat me hands down on discussions of Physics, Biology etc however in this particular topic of the `wife/bride of Rev. 19,` I believe I have some relevant things to show you, dear friend. I was taught this many years ago & you may like to think upon them. I do realize that it is hard to see from another way that people have been taught for years, however I believe I still need to present it.

`Let us be glad & rejoice, & give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, & His wife has made herself ready…..` (Rev. 19: 7)

WHO IS THE WIFE ?

Is it the Body of Christ?

1. 2 Cor. 11: 2

Paul says -`…for I betrothed you to one husband, that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.` (2 Cor. 11: 2)
This is not a doctrinal passage, but the pure exhortation of Paul to his converts only. He no more declares they are the Bride, than he (Paul) was their father or mother. (1 Thess. 2: 11) & `My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you.` (Gal. 4: 19)

Paul talks to these converts about `when I was present with you….I kept myself from being a burden to you…` (2 Cor. 11: 9) We can read these passages but they are specifically written to Paul`s converts. And we do not take it personally as though Paul would `present us ` to Christ.

2. Eph. 5: 28 - 32

Paul says - `So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loves His wife loves himself….For we are members of His Body, of His flesh, & of His bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father & mother, & shall be joined unto his wife & they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ & the church (the Body of Christ).` (Eph. 5: 28 – 32)

This passage again is not doctrinal, but exhortational & illustrative. It is a metaphor: regarding devotion & affection – definitely not marriage. As Christ loved His Body – the Church; so husbands ought to love their body – ie. their wives.

The Body of Christ is `One New Man,` (Eph. 2: 15 – 16) & `unto a perfect Man` (Eph. 4: 12 – 13) Masculine.


Is it Israel?

The `Bride` was known to John the Baptist (John 3: 29) & was depicted in the Old Testament.

`For your husband is your Maker, whose name is the Lord of hosts…for the Lord has called you like a wife forsaken….` (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

Israel`s relationship with the Lord was as a `husband & wife.` Then when Israel turned from God He `divorced her.`

`And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away & given her a writ of divorce,…` (Jer. 3: 8)

The book of Hosea shows us how the Lord will again `marry,` connect with Israel again.

`Then the Lord said to me, “Go again, love a woman who is loved by her husband, yet an adulteress, even as the Lord loves the sons of Israel, though they turn to other gods…Afterwards the sons of Israel will return & seek the Lord their God…..` (Hosea 3: 1 & 5)

Thus we see when the Lord returns to earth & delivers Israel from their enemies He will –

`…pour out on the house of David & on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace….` (Zech. 12: 10)

They will celebrate the `wedding feast, ` the Feast of Tabernacles, which is God with us. God, through Jesus will connect again with His people Israel. This will take place ON the earth as Jesus told them. Note the wedding guest who had come in to the feast but did not have wedding clothes.

`…when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw there a man not dressed in wedding clothes, & he said to him, “Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?.....cast him into the outer darkness…` (Matt. 22: 11 – 13)

No one would be able to get into the `wedding feast,` if it was in heaven & they did not have `wedding clothes.`




Now let us look in detail at Rev. 19: 7 – 9

`Let us be glad & rejoice, & give honour to Him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, & His wife has made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean & white; for the fine linen is the righteousness acts of the saints. And he said unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true sayings of God` (Rev. 19: 7 - 9)

The Lamb – The title of the Lamb, is in relation to Israel`s sacrifices.
`..Behold the Lamb of God..` (John 1: 29) John the Baptist said this to the people of Israel showing them that Jesus was to be the ultimate Lamb, the final sacrifice. The Body of Christ knows Jesus by this title but to us He is the `Head of the Body,` as we never used lambs for sacrifices.

His Wife – This symbol was given to Israel for their relationship with God. The Body of Christ is a male Body – One New Man.

Fine Linen - `…the righteous acts of the saints.` Those who believed in God, pre-cross were given righteousness through their righteous acts.

`And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David & Samuel & the prophets, who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness….` (Heb. 11: 32 & 33)

The Body of Christ (post cross) however is righteous through Christ.

`…you are in Christ Jesus who became to us wisdom from God & righteousness & sanctification, & redemption.` (1 Cor. 1: 30)


The army clothed in fine linen….

The `armies …clothed in fine linen,` tells us that they are `holy` as were the angels coming out of the temple, `…seven angels …came out of the temple, clothed in linen, clean & bright .`This army is clothed in linen etc to show that they are the `holy angel army as against the armies of the beast. .`
Note it does not say `linen….the righteous acts of the saints` as previously.

As regards the thought that the army might be angels & the Body of Christ, that is not possible as we all know that we do not fight `flesh & blood.` That is the job of the angelic army. Finally we need to read the words of Jesus who tells us that it is His holy angels that come with Him in power & glory.

`…when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.` (Mark 8: 38)


Much to ponder on, Marilyn.
 

[Persuaded]

I'm comfortable that this is easily refuted, and has been recently, (simply, adulterous pregnant wife does not equal virgin bride). I'll address something further up the thread...

Everybody is/will be subject either to the first resurrection or the second death.

The second death is for "the dead" who are brought before the GWT and judged "by their works". Scripture is clear that this is a 0% option, since all have sinned and the wages of sin is death. This is closer to a sentencing than a trial, or in olde west speak "they'll be given a fair trial and then theyll be hanged". No OT prophets, no pillars of faith past or present can withstand God's inspection. But they don't need to...

Will Moses and Elijah be subject to the second death? -clearly not! Indeed Mat 17 places them in heaven, already (probably, but certainly after Christ's resurrection). So if they aren't subject to the second death, the only other category is the first resurrection. And that's what many casual readers miss- the first resurrection is a category, not an event. Part of our misconception comes from the clumsy way that Greek "protos" is handled in English as "first". Paralleling the lofty position of the heir (usually the firstborn), the word protos carries the same idea of honor, best, chiefest. The first resurrection certainly comes before the second death timewise, but it also vastly exceeds it in quality or character.

The first resurrection has been available since at least the cross, through today, and through the trib. All who are in Christ are not subject to death, and don't meet the criteria for the GWT, being the resurrection of "the dead" (another category you want no part of!)

Edited November 8, 2014 by Persuaded

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

 

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Your Entire Argument hinges on this....

 

2. Eph. 5: 28 - 32

Paul says - `So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loves His wife loves himself….For we are members of His Body, of His flesh, & of His bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father & mother, & shall be joined unto his wife & they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ & the church (the Body of Christ).` (Eph. 5: 28 – 32)

 

This passage again is not doctrinal, but exhortational & illustrative. It is a metaphor: regarding devotion & affection – definitely not marriage. As Christ loved His Body – the Church; so husbands ought to love their body – ie. their wives.

 

 

It's not a Metaphor regarding Devotion and Affection.  "Great Mystery"---"Christ and The Church" is a Direct LITERAL conclusion from the Antecedent, in this case, from the preceding passage that echoes Genesis.

 

Metaphor---- is a figure of speech comparing two unlike things without using either "like" or "as"----(Simile).  There are NO two unlike things in (Ephesians 5:31-32) just a view of Marriage.

 

Please show how this is NOT Doctrinal....?

 

 

Before we move on to the rest, you need another crack @ these passages.

[Enoch2021]

I'm comfortable that this is easily refuted, and has been recently, (simply, adulterous pregnant wife does not equal virgin bride). I'll address something further up the thread...

Everybody is/will be subject either to the first resurrection or the second death.

The second death is for "the dead" who are brought before the GWT and judged "by their works". Scripture is clear that this is a 0% option, since all have sinned and the wages of sin is death. This is closer to a sentencing than a trial, or in olde west speak "they'll be given a fair trial and then theyll be hanged". No OT prophets, no pillars of faith past or present can withstand God's inspection. But they don't need to...

Will Moses and Elijah be subject to the second death? -clearly not! Indeed Mat 17 places them in heaven, already (probably, but certainly after Christ's resurrection). So if they aren't subject to the second death, the only other category is the first resurrection. And that's what many casual readers miss- the first resurrection is a category, not an event. Part of our misconception comes from the clumsy way that Greek "protos" is handled in English as "first". Paralleling the lofty position of the heir (usually the firstborn), the word protos carries the same idea of honor, best, chiefest. The first resurrection certainly comes before the second death timewise, but it also vastly exceeds it in quality or character.

The first resurrection has been available since at least the cross, through today, and through the trib. All who are in Christ are not subject to death, and don't meet the criteria for the GWT, being the resurrection of "the dead" (another category you want no part of!)

 

 

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So if they aren't subject to the second death, the only other category is the first resurrection.

 

 

Are you referring to the OT Saints here?  If so, you are incorrect.....

 

 

(Daniel 12:1-2) "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.  {2} And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

 

 

1. it says "thy people".  Who are Daniel's people?....OT Jews.

2. This passage isn't speaking to "The Church" because it wasn't revealed until Paul....

(Ephesians 3:1-8) "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,  {2} If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:  {3} How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,  {4} Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)  {5} Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;  {6} That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:  {7} Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.  {8} Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;"

3. The Daniel Passage is clearly referring to the OT Saints, of which... Daniel is one.

4. And this is quite interesting...."at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."     When does this event occur? When is the Book opened?.....

(Revelation 20:11-12) "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.  {12} And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Daniel 12:1 is clearly saying that the OT Saints won't be Resurrected Until the Great White Throne.  Makes sense, to be judged on their works....why?  Well the OT Saints are not apart of the New Testament Dispensation.... they are under a Different Covenant.

 

"Judged....according to their works"----is the polar opposite of Christian Doctrine.  Personally, and I can say this Unequivocally----I can't make it, I'm Doomed in this scenario....NO HOPE!!

 

Praise The LORD it's not the Case!!  It's the Whole Point 

 

 

This is another Slam Dunk motif.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Enoch2021,

 

No, friend, my entire argument does not `hinge` on this. There is the purpose of the Body of Christ yet to be discussed but not on this thread.

 

Now you asked, `Please show how this is not doctrinal.` Thank you for the opportunity to expand my thoughts as I didn`t want to make the former post too long.

We know that doctrine is a body of teaching that has to fit in with the whole Bible. Concerning the Ephesians verses (5: 25 - 30) why does Paul wait until the 5th chapter if he is going to bring out this startling & important  revelation that the church is the Bride? The Apostle Paul has been dealing with the highest order of doctrine from the first chapter right up to the conclusion of the fourth & he does not mention anything about the church being the Bride. In fact, it contradicts it.

 

Now in the fifth chapter Paul is not dealing with doctrine at all. He has come down, as Paul always does, from the heights of revelation to the practical things of life, & he starts talking about wives & husbands, & that is all he is talking about, & he is appealing on these grounds.

 

If you read the passage, & understand this word `church,` to mean `Body,` the confusion goes out of it immediately. What Paul is saying is that in the same manner in which the Head loves the members of the Body, let a man love his wife like that. That is what he is saying. He is not teaching at all. He does not say that the church is the Bride. It is read into it. It is just not there. Obviously it is not there, because if we look at Eph.2: 14 (which was written before this) we read;

 

`For He is our peace, who has made both one, & has broken down the middle wall partition between us:` (Now this is doctrine & dealing with doctrine.)

`having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of two, one new man....`

Man! Masculine! Did Paul forget about `that` when he came to the fifth chapter? Then in the fourth chapter, we read in verse 13:

 

`Till we all come in the unity of the faith, & of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man....`

 

Masculine! - because the Head is masculine. If the Head is masculine, the members of His Body are masculine. So we are faced with this: are we to understand that Paul started off by teaching that the Body was masculine & then, when he came to the fifth chapter, declared it to be feminine? So we are faced with this contradictory situation - if we try to make out that the church is the Bride. Paul did not say this but drew his illustrations from marriage & from betrothal, to try to get his converts to the point where they would be faithful to their calling, & for husbands to love their wives.

 

There is not one thing in clear statement about the church being the Bride. Thus I would not build this doctrine on those verses to support the Body being the Bride.

 

Hope that explains more, Marilyn.