enoob57 Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,258 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,499 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I don't care what you say I am not getting intimate with a gun That is incredibly profound noob. How can anyone disagree with that? Lol I was teasing Patriot of His misspelling. not arguing any points He meant inanimate ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coheir Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,458 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 729 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1950 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Fair enough. God has one standard for all. If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26 Are you married? If so then you should abandon your wife, leave her, sell your house, give all your possessions to the poor, travel, preach to the World and die for the cause of God. If you are not prepared to do this then you are not living the life of a disciple which you are called upon to do so. If you cannot do this then your words are empty. You cannot cherry pick. Are you prepared to live the life of a disciple or not? God has ONE standard for all. having one standard of behavior for all is not the same as having one calling for all. If you are going to be spiteful and rude about this, then I am done with this conversation. If you want to believe it is biblical to respond to violence with violence, then be my guest and live a life of violence. violence the unlawful exercise of physical force or intimidation by the exhibition of such force. Defending ones family or ones person is within the law defending ones life is not considered violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted September 4, 2014 i really do not think you grasp the difference between violence (aggression, offense) and defense. Now on this at least we agree. From my point of view their is no difference between violence and defense on this subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 I did read it. I just kept having the verses that talk about "who so ever lives by the sword will die by the sword" run through my mind. Everything about guns, including their purpose is violent. We all fall short, but every moment of our lives is suppose to bring glory to God. How does guns and the violence with them glorify God? Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. no sorry....I cannot agree to disagree because this is not a matter of opinion and I'll explain why First of all, you state Jesus did not teach or preach violence....that implies that is someone who wants to defend themself, they are not following Christ Second, you mention what Jesus said regarding the sword. Jesus is speaking here of those who use violence as a lifestyle. Is anyone here living by guns? Are responders using weapons to take what they want? Context is everything and the broad application that you and some others wish to make, just does not fit the context in which Jesus spoke I will tell who is actually living by the sword...ISIS and those like ilk. And they will die as they live. I completely disagree. Owning a gun, especially with a gun permit is a lifestyle. As for me saying Jesus not teaching a doctrine of violence. That is the truth. To say Jesus, The prince of Peace, promoted violence is false doctrine. Look at what Jesus said to Peter at Jesus' arrest when peter pulled out a weapon. besides, if you want to convince me your right, then show me in the bible where Jesus himself says to defend yourself with violence or where Jesus himself taught that we are to respond to violence with violence. Until you or anyone else can show me in the Bible where Jesus himself says respond to violence with violence I don't see the point of posting anymore on this subject. That's fine. Again, I do not own a gun and have no plans to own a gun. That, is not the point I have made. You cannot describe Jesus as the Prince of Peace only. How is God going to put everything under His feet without defeating the enemy? Like I said...questions get ignored when they do not fit in with opinions Protecting oneself is not violence...I don't think you understand and perhaps you will not until you actually must do so It is so easy to say what one would not ever do not ever having to do it ... I ask questions because questions by nature ask for answers...no answers tells me that the question has not been considered In regards to the point in bold. How dare you assume to know me or my life! Years ago I was in prison for a stupid mistake, Which is where I truly started having a relationship with Christ . I was threatened with violence daily. Sometimes for no other reason than because my skin tone is white, and yes they bluntly said that. Their were rape threats and attempts. Yes, even my blood was spilled. I remember one time two people started fighting beside me and one of the punches was so close I could feel the wind off of his punch. I could post endless stories about violence coming at me in one way or another, be it fists or a shank or a rape attempt. Every time The lord Jesus was there, and not once did I get violent. I would sing songs of praise to Jesus, quote the word of God or even start praying for them right there on the spot, but I never responded with violence. Every day my life was in danger because I didn't and wouldn't fit in to their drugs, gangs, groups or ways of doing things. Jesus was always thier. I don't have to guess what I would do when surrounded by muslims and every and anyone else who wants my harm, hurt, and/or death. I lived it. The next time we talk, don't assume anything about me, next time ask. I think that is a solid testimony and while I have never been in jail, I certainly know what it is to depend only upon God to deliver me in a bad situation...which I already stated. I mean life or death....I understand serious. In regards to the point in bold. How dare you assume to know me or my life! Well ease up there tiger. You are actually the one doing the assuming. The sentence that you highlighted, this one: It is so easy to say what one would not ever do not ever having to do it ... does not apply personally to you. You are not the only one in this thread that I do not quite agree with. You could turn down the rhetoric a bit...I am not being personal and I am not daring anything about you. That's alot of indignation wasted over nothing. As you say, you might have asked. I'm not putting you down personally...you might be surprised to know some of what I have gone through...some my fault and some not my fault...I understand what you are saying...but again, I am speaking generally. I still believe what I said regarding how easy it is to say something without actual foreknowledge of what a reaction would be. So, chill on that...it is not a personal jibe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 Once again, must we pick up arms to avoid your judging us as pacifists? Who said they don't want police to carry guns? I simply pray if I ever have to pick up arms, the first place I put my trust is in Jesus. I'm wondering what I have to do to to avoid you putting words in my mouth. Seriously? It's several times now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 .... I do see it as a fleshly human behavior instead of a spiritual behaviour... That is what I am seeing too. The person some of you feel the need to protect yourselves from is likely an unbeliever. You are a believer, You get to heaven. The unbeliever does not. The life you take with a gun will not get to hear the gospel again. So do murderers and other felons get a carte blanche from Christians because they are not believers? I'm sure you don't really think that but I agree with LadyC in her post 98...she makes some pretty good points Again...I don't have a gun and have no plans to purchase one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 So let me understand you correctly. You are saying that God is to weak and puny to defend his children. That god is weak that people must rise up and act out of their flesh because God is just to puny and weak to defend his children. God is not in control of anything, so we must do everything our selves because salvation lies not in Jesus but in guns. This is what you are saying correct? I'm sorry...but this is classic. I have twice asked 'how about all the Jews that were annihilated in WWII...where was God. Answer both times = 0 Were people who tried to save them acting out of their flesh? Can someone tell me, was God to weak to act on their behalf? Were they sinners? And we are not? I just don't get it...I really don't. Defense is not acting out of your flesh...do people believe that because Jesus did not do anything that He was demonstrating the status quo for all believers for all time? Jesus was fullfilling His reason for being on earth. I agree that it seems that some folk have passed over the OT...again this is not being personally aimed at anyone... There is a season for everything if we believe what the Bible says.....and seasons change There are several concepts presented in this thread and different words...some of these words are not being understood...I don't know why that is. I'm now going to hit the unfollow button...thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I did read it. I just kept having the verses that talk about "who so ever lives by the sword will die by the sword" run through my mind. Everything about guns, including their purpose is violent. We all fall short, but every moment of our lives is suppose to bring glory to God. How does guns and the violence with them glorify God? Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. no sorry....I cannot agree to disagree because this is not a matter of opinion and I'll explain why First of all, you state Jesus did not teach or preach violence....that implies that is someone who wants to defend themself, they are not following Christ Second, you mention what Jesus said regarding the sword. Jesus is speaking here of those who use violence as a lifestyle. Is anyone here living by guns? Are responders using weapons to take what they want? Context is everything and the broad application that you and some others wish to make, just does not fit the context in which Jesus spoke I will tell who is actually living by the sword...ISIS and those like ilk. And they will die as they live. I completely disagree. Owning a gun, especially with a gun permit is a lifestyle. As for me saying Jesus not teaching a doctrine of violence. That is the truth. To say Jesus, The prince of Peace, promoted violence is false doctrine. Look at what Jesus said to Peter at Jesus' arrest when peter pulled out a weapon. besides, if you want to convince me your right, then show me in the bible where Jesus himself says to defend yourself with violence or where Jesus himself taught that we are to respond to violence with violence. Until you or anyone else can show me in the Bible where Jesus himself says respond to violence with violence I don't see the point of posting anymore on this subject. That's fine. Again, I do not own a gun and have no plans to own a gun. That, is not the point I have made. You cannot describe Jesus as the Prince of Peace only. How is God going to put everything under His feet without defeating the enemy? Like I said...questions get ignored when they do not fit in with opinions Protecting oneself is not violence...I don't think you understand and perhaps you will not until you actually must do so It is so easy to say what one would not ever do not ever having to do it ... I ask questions because questions by nature ask for answers...no answers tells me that the question has not been considered In regards to the point in bold. How dare you assume to know me or my life! Years ago I was in prison for a stupid mistake, Which is where I truly started having a relationship with Christ . I was threatened with violence daily. Sometimes for no other reason than because my skin tone is white, and yes they bluntly said that. Their were rape threats and attempts. Yes, even my blood was spilled. I remember one time two people started fighting beside me and one of the punches was so close I could feel the wind off of his punch. I could post endless stories about violence coming at me in one way or another, be it fists or a shank or a rape attempt. Every time The lord Jesus was there, and not once did I get violent. I would sing songs of praise to Jesus, quote the word of God or even start praying for them right there on the spot, but I never responded with violence. Every day my life was in danger because I didn't and wouldn't fit in to their drugs, gangs, groups or ways of doing things. Jesus was always thier. I don't have to guess what I would do when surrounded by muslims and every and anyone else who wants my harm, hurt, and/or death. I lived it. The next time we talk, don't assume anything about me, next time ask. I think that is a solid testimony and while I have never been in jail, I certainly know what it is to depend only upon God to deliver me in a bad situation...which I already stated. I mean life or death....I understand serious. In regards to the point in bold. How dare you assume to know me or my life! Well ease up there tiger. You are actually the one doing the assuming. The sentence that you highlighted, this one: It is so easy to say what one would not ever do not ever having to do it ... does not apply personally to you. You are not the only one in this thread that I do not quite agree with. You could turn down the rhetoric a bit...I am not being personal and I am not daring anything about you. That's alot of indignation wasted over nothing. As you say, you might have asked. I'm not putting you down personally...you might be surprised to know some of what I have gone through...some my fault and some not my fault...I understand what you are saying...but again, I am speaking generally. I still believe what I said regarding how easy it is to say something without actual foreknowledge of what a reaction would be. So, chill on that...it is not a personal jibe. Then I apologize. I took it as a personal attack. If you say that is not what you meant, then I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 sevenseas referred back to this post as having some valid points... i kinda think she may have been the only person to have read it. so thank you for mentioning SS! i'm going to go ahead and repost it because i know nobody is going to go back three pages to find post #98. i'd like to point out what should be obvious, but apparently is not. first of all, killing is not the same as murder. God makes clear distinctions between the two. secondly, and this is CRITICAL here, is that killing a human being (whether it was murder, or an accident, lethal injection, or self defense) does NOT make the person who killed responsible for that person's lack of salvation. God gives EVERY human ample opportunity to recognize, acknowledge, repent and accept salvation. NO man is without excuse. God knows, and has known since the beginning of creation, the number of each person's days and whether or not that person would accept the gift of eternal life. NOTHING any other human being can do can thwart His plan. God will not allow the death of someone who WOULD accept Him before he DOES accept Him. only those who would never have accepted Him in the first place are going to die without Him. so people here really need to stop trying to make it out as though anybody could possibly be the cause of another going to hell. it just ain't so. and third, people here seem to be forgetting that Jesus and God are always of one accord. ALWAYS. God is a God of justice. vengeance is His. throughout history He has instructed His people to bear arms and defeat evil. yes, He utilizes His people to carry out His plan, His justice. i get the distinct feeling that there are some "NT-Only" folks in this thread, who feel that the OT is irrelevant. i might pop back into this thread once in a while, but i might not.... the amount of judgment and disdain being dished out by at least one who believes that God is all about peace and not about justice is getting me riled up, and that's not good for my health or for the sanity of my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coheir Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,458 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 729 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1950 Share Posted September 4, 2014 So let me understand you correctly. You are saying that God is to weak and puny to defend his children. That god is weak that people must rise up and act out of their flesh because God is just to puny and weak to defend his children. God is not in control of anything, so we must do everything our selves because salvation lies not in Jesus but in guns. This is what you are saying correct? I'm sorry...but this is classic. I have twice asked 'how about all the Jews that were annihilated in WWII...where was God. Answer both times = 0 Were people who tried to save them acting out of their flesh? Can someone tell me, was God to weak to act on their behalf? Were they sinners? And we are not? I just don't get it...I really don't. Defense is not acting out of your flesh...do people believe that because Jesus did not do anything that He was demonstrating the status quo for all believers for all time? Jesus was fullfilling His reason for being on earth. I agree that it seems that some folk have passed over the OT...again this is not being personally aimed at anyone... There is a season for everything if we believe what the Bible says.....and seasons change There are several concepts presented in this thread and different words...some of these words are not being understood...I don't know why that is. I'm now going to hit the unfollow button...thanks I do not like seeing you go I so agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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