justfaith Posted October 8, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2014 RT That is where we do not agree. Eating and drinking, marrying and giving is marriage was the environment of civilization before the Flood. This same environment will exist before the Rapture. This same environment exists now. Two men, one taken (rescued) the other left behind. Two women, one taken (rescued) the other left behind. So keep watch because you do not know the day your Lord will come. Imminent (be always watching and waiting). So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. The Rapture. Matt 24:29 Immediately after the distress of those days (which days; V. 15, 21; Rev 12:13-17): the final 3 1/2 years. v.30 - The nations will mourn when they see the Son of Man appear in the sky. He comes with great power and great glory. The Second Coming The final separation of the sheep and goats occurs after the Mill, when the goats go into the Lake of Fire. The sheep get rewarded. (OT saints, Tribulation saints, Elect from Israel, those who did not follow Satan in his final battle after the Mill) We as Believers rule with Christ 1000 years. In Christ Montana Marv The old testement saint only get resurrected after please provide scripture thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfaith Posted October 8, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2014 The Lord Jesus Christ is coming back as a thief in the night 1 Thessalonians 5:2 The apostle Paul wrote: “For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.” This verse does not mean that believers would be raptured because if you read two verses below Paul gave the explanation. “But you, brethren, are not in darkness so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.” (1 Thes. 5:4) It says nothing about a secret rapture. Again, the message here is NOT that Jesus' coming will be secret, but that it will occur at a time when most will not expect it, therefore we must WATCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfaith Posted October 8, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2014 The Marriage Supper of the Lamb. In ancient Israel the wedding celebration, it was a seven day event. In Christ Montana Marv That's correct. Seven days, not seven years. Cheers RT Yet a one seven (one week or 7 days) can equal 7 prophetic years. In Christ Montana Marv Christ said that His coming will be like it was in the days of Noah. There was no seven year period in Noah's time, nor is there a biblical warrant to change seven days into seven years. This is nothing more than another pre-trib rapture gimmick, much like the claim that apostasy means departure = rapture. Lots of believers are putting a lot of faith in a theory that is not even biblical. Wishing upon the stars! Cheers RT Yet, Matt 24:37 - for as in the "Days of Noah", so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in those days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark, and they new nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away (killed them). You need to show me how this unconditional environment exists during the time of Gods Wrath, Armageddon and then His Second Coming. Gladly Marv, But first, the days of Noah parable/scenario do not exist during God's wrath, Armageddon and second coming. I would remind you that Noah and his family were rescued, just like those who are ready will be rescued from the Day of the Lord's wrath. This is hard for pre-tribbers to see, because they keep insisting that Matthew 24 is dealing with the second coming, which would include Armageddon and the Day of the Lord as well. But we see none of these in chapter 24. We only see the sign of the Son of man immediately after the tribulation of those days and the angels being sent to gather His elect (Matt. 24:29-31), which is the rapture that precedes the Day of the Lord and Armageddon during the second coming. Then He will judge the nations separating the sheep & goats (Matt. 25:31-46), which is also His answer for the sign of the end of the age. In a nutshell, Matthew 24 answers His disciples question (What will be the sign of your coming?); while the end of Matthew 25 answers (and of the end of the age?). (See Matt. 24:3) So basically, Matthew 24 is only half of the story. If that is where you draw your conclusion, you threw the baby out with the bath water. Just remember verse #31 is key in both chapters. Matt. 24:31 = Rapture. Matt. 25:31 = End of age/Second coming/Day of the Lord's wrath/Armageddon.Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Notice those who destroy the earth (goats) are killed after His faithful servants get rewarded, which is after the nations were angry (tribulation). This time of eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage exists now (not seven years from now). (up to the day Noah entered the ark) And so it will be a complete surprise to those who are not watching and waiting. Them same as in the days of Noah. 8 were prepared, the rest were not. And today, those who are ready will go up to the Fathers House as promised in John 14. All others will remain on earth to face the A/C and the False Prophet. This time of pre 70th Week is a better fit for the Rapture; much, much earlier than those who believe in the Post-Trib theory. In Christ Montana Marv I believe the eating, drinking, marrying and given in marriage is a hidden clue in this parable about those who will be ready (faithful servants) going to the wedding supper. If you'll notice, the following parables all relate to the rapture as well, until you come to Matt. 25:31. Cheers the man without the garment went also was he left behind or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfaith Posted October 8, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2014 2 Peter 3:10 “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” Those that believe in a secret rapture teach that things continue on until the Second Coming of Christ, but this is not possible or true as shown in the above verse. They often quote Jesus coming as a “thief in the night” as meaning that He comes secretly. Is that what 2 Peter 3:10 shows? Does Jesus coming as a thief mean He comes secretly or that He comes when you least expect Him if you are not ready? Is the “heavens passing away with a great noise and the elements melting with fervent heat” sound secret to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfaith Posted October 8, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 309 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2014 By comparing point by point in the following two passages, we can observe that both of the following two chapters are referring to the same event. Observe the perfect harmony below. 1 Thessalonians 4 1 Corinthians 15 4:16 - the Lord Himself shall come 15:23 - are Christ’s at His coming 4:14 - sleep 15:51 - sleep 4:16 - shout, voice, trump 15:52 - the trumpet shall sound 4:16 - dead in Christ shall rise first 15:52 - dead shall be raised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted October 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,986 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2014 RT That is where we do not agree. Eating and drinking, marrying and giving is marriage was the environment of civilization before the Flood. This same environment will exist before the Rapture. This same environment exists now. Two men, one taken (rescued) the other left behind. Two women, one taken (rescued) the other left behind. So keep watch because you do not know the day your Lord will come. Imminent (be always watching and waiting). So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. The Rapture. One question Marv. What do you suppose will happen to those who are left behind? This environment has never changed, but it is not the same environment we see in the parable of the days of Lot. Noah boarded the ark seven days before God sent the flood (rapture), but the same day Lot left Sodom, fire and brimstone rained down and destroyed that city. Noah represents the Church. Lot represents Israel, which will flee to the valley when Christ touches down on the Mount of Olives and destroys the goats nations that He will gather against Jerusalem. How can this scenario be considered imminent when scripture plainly reveals it occurs after both, the abomination of desolation (Matt.24:15), and the tribulation of those days (Matt.24:29-31)??? Matt 24:29 Immediately after the distress of those days (which days; V. 15, 21; Rev 12:13-17): the final 3 1/2 years. v.30 - The nations will mourn when they see the Son of Man appear in the sky. He comes with great power and great glory. The Second Coming After the abomination of desolation, those who are in Judea will flee to the mountains, and then this event will ignite the great tribulation. Christ did not discuss any of the details about the tribulation, other than saying it will be the greatest tribulation (world crisis/distress of nations) since the beginning of the world, and never to be equaled again. Some of the newer translations say the nations of the world will mourn when they see the sign of the Son of man, but the KJV plainly says the tribes of the earth will mourn. This is referring to the scattered tribes of Israel who will look up when they see the sign (rapture) and know that their redemption draws near, and they will mourn for the one they have pierced. The final separation of the sheep and goats occurs after the Mill, when the goats go into the Lake of Fire. The sheep get rewarded. (OT saints, Tribulation saints, Elect from Israel, those who did not follow Satan in his final battle after the Mill) We as Believers rule with Christ 1000 years. Read the disciples question in Matthew 24:3 and hopefully you'll see that they were only asking about the sign of His coming and the sign of the end of the age (age of grace). They had no knowledge whatsoever about the millennium at that time, for it wasn't mentioned until John later penned Revelation. So you are really reaching and stretching to make Christ' answer to their question fit your pre-trib theory. In no way did His disciples ask Him about the end of the millennial age. And Christ never told any of them about the millennium. That is only an assumption on your part. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted October 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2014 RT Your last quote from above post: Read the disciples question in Matthew 24:3 and hopefully you'll see that they were only asking about the sign of His coming and the sign of the end of the age (age of grace). They had no knowledge whatsoever about the millennium at that time, for it wasn't mentioned until John later penned Revelation. So you are really reaching and stretching to make Christ' answer to their question fit your pre-trib theory. In no way did His disciples ask Him about the end of the millennial age. And Christ never told any of them about the millennium. That is only an assumption on your part. I know; it is the post trib group who say that Matt 24:29 is referring to the Rapture. Which it is not, it is only referring to the Second Coming. There are three questions: 1. When will these things happen. 2. What will be the sign of your coming. 3. and of the end of the age. Question 1 begins with; vs 4, and when you see standing in the holy place. Question 2 begins with; Immediately after the distress of those days (the Second Coming). Question 3 ends with (Matt 25) the separation of the sheep (those who go into the New Jerusalem) and goats (those who go into the Lake of Fire). Then the New Earth and the New Heaven and the New Jerusalem. Yet the Rapture is not mentioned, The Disciples; the pre crucifixion Disciples were clueless to almost everything. Yet they did know of Daniel 12:2 - Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. The end of the age. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted October 10, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,986 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2014 RT Your last quote from above post: Read the disciples question in Matthew 24:3 and hopefully you'll see that they were only asking about the sign of His coming and the sign of the end of the age (age of grace). They had no knowledge whatsoever about the millennium at that time, for it wasn't mentioned until John later penned Revelation. So you are really reaching and stretching to make Christ' answer to their question fit your pre-trib theory. In no way did His disciples ask Him about the end of the millennial age. And Christ never told any of them about the millennium. That is only an assumption on your part. I know; it is the post trib group who say that Matt 24:29 is referring to the Rapture. Which it is not, it is only referring to the Second Coming. There are three questions: 1. When will these things happen. 2. What will be the sign of your coming. 3. and of the end of the age. Question 1 begins with; vs 4, and when you see standing in the holy place. Question 2 begins with; Immediately after the distress of those days (the Second Coming). Question 3 ends with (Matt 25) the separation of the sheep (those who go into the New Jerusalem) and goats (those who go into the Lake of Fire). Then the New Earth and the New Heaven and the New Jerusalem. Yet the Rapture is not mentioned, The Disciples; the pre crucifixion Disciples were clueless to almost everything.Marv, you send a mixed/confusing message. In a previous post you said the one in the field that was taken was rescued as in rapture, but now you say Matt. 24 is only about the second coming. If this was the second coming, we wouldn't see the Lord sending the angels to gather the elect. We would instead be coming with Him to the war of Armageddon. Furthermore, if we were raptured prior to this time, then we would always be with Him and have no need for angels to gather us continually. We will then be like the angels ourselves, having glorified resurrection bodies. The parable of ten virgins is not about the second coming, and what about Him rewarding His faithful servants who received talents? These have no relation to the second coming, nor would we need to be ready for the second coming. Yet they did know of Daniel 12:2 - Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. The end of the age.Daniel 12:2 occurs after the tribulation as well. Compare Daniel's time of trouble not seen since the was a nation (Dan. 12:1) to Christ' great tribulation (Matt. 24:21). This is the same time and event, and both also happen after the abomination of desolation (Dan. 11:31-36/Matt. 24:15).The Jews required a sign (1 Cor. 1:22), so the appearing of the sign of the Son of man is the sign that precedes His second coming, and it is none other than the rapture. You can deny it all you want, but Christ laid it all out so beautifully, and in chronological order.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted October 10, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,256 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,671 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2014 The simple answer plainly is No, lol , cause no matter if one makes it a long answer or a short one, one still will end up with those two letter words! I agree with you brother...... Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD - prior to this no one and I mean NO ONE ever spoke of a pre-tribulation. This is one area from many that Christians LOVE to argue about. This interpretation of scripture is first recorded by one of the early church pastors from the near east. It was prior to the year 400, I believe. Will have to find it again.. Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem - Wikipedia, the free ...Ephraem The Syrian - Koinonia House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhavoney Posted October 11, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2014 No !! There is no rapture. You will need full grown faith in God to survive the coming tribulation. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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