Would it be easier to prove the existence of Satan?

[gdemoss]

No. It would make no difference to atheists. They explain away creation and the very order of the universe through any semi feasible explanation so they would do the same with all supernatural.

 

It would depend on the Atheist. Many Atheists turn to Jesus every day.

There are two types of Atheist  - those who simply don't believe and those that don't want to believe (they have already rejected God).

Your comment would apply to the latter. The former group are merely seekers who haven't found yet.

It's nice to see a sensible comment like this one.  On the other thread they were essentially stating that all atheists are liars.   

If God is AND God is true THEN ALL men are liars including me

 

if you are a liar, then  this statement is a lie. Which means you are not a liar, after all. But if you are not a liar you could not say you are a liar without lying. 

I don't see how to resolve this puzzle without falsifying the premise

 sieglinde

One can be a liar but tell the truth when they repeat what one who is honest has said.  Everything I say that is of my own understanding is subject to the probability of being proven false and therefore a lie due to my not possessing all knowledge.  Even when I tell the truth according to my conscience.  That in no way negates the premise that God is true.  Thanks for the thought provoking comment. 

[siegi91]

 

 

 

if you are a liar, then  this statement is a lie. Which means you are not a liar, after all. But if you are not a liar you could not say you are a liar without lying. 

I don't see how to resolve this puzzle without falsifying the premise

 sieglinde

The statement says men are liars... not everything said is a lie. God is not a liar ... God is true.

Well spotted Hippie  Stating to be a liar does not entail that every statement I say  is a lie. if I did, That would lead to a Russel kind of paradox. I cannot possibly state that everything I say is a lie, without hopelessly contradicting myself. If true, then my statement is a lie, which entails I do not always say lies, contradicting my statement.

But what about the claim to be honest? Does that entail that every statement is honest?

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

My head hurts.

[siegi91]

No. It would make no difference to atheists. They explain away creation and the very order of the universe through any semi feasible explanation so they would do the same with all supernatural.

 

It would depend on the Atheist. Many Atheists turn to Jesus every day.

There are two types of Atheist  - those who simply don't believe and those that don't want to believe (they have already rejected God).

Your comment would apply to the latter. The former group are merely seekers who haven't found yet.

It's nice to see a sensible comment like this one.  On the other thread they were essentially stating that all atheists are liars.   

If God is AND God is true THEN ALL men are liars including me

 

if you are a liar, then  this statement is a lie. Which means you are not a liar, after all. But if you are not a liar you could not say you are a liar without lying. 

I don't see how to resolve this puzzle without falsifying the premise

 sieglinde

One can be a liar but tell the truth when they repeat what one who is honest has said.  Everything I say that is of my own understanding is subject to the probability of being proven false and therefore a lie due to my not possessing all knowledge.  Even when I tell the truth according to my conscience.  That in no way negates the premise that God is true.  Thanks for the thought provoking comment. 

i see. But I would not call it a lie, if your conscience thinks it is true. For me a lie is a conscious decision to say something we know, or think, it is not true. So, you can be a liar and say something true (that you believe it is false), while being honest and say something false (that you believe it is true).

i am not sure I understand the concept of sin, yet. But I bet it is not a sin if you say something false, if in your heart you believe it is true.

siegi

 

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

No. It would make no difference to atheists. They explain away creation and the very order of the universe through any semi feasible explanation so they would do the same with all supernatural.

 

It would depend on the Atheist. Many Atheists turn to Jesus every day.

There are two types of Atheist  - those who simply don't believe and those that don't want to believe (they have already rejected God).

Your comment would apply to the latter. The former group are merely seekers who haven't found yet.

It's nice to see a sensible comment like this one.  On the other thread they were essentially stating that all atheists are liars.   

If God is AND God is true THEN ALL men are liars including me

 

if you are a liar, then  this statement is a lie. Which means you are not a liar, after all. But if you are not a liar you could not say you are a liar without lying. 

I don't see how to resolve this puzzle without falsifying the premise

 sieglinde

One can be a liar but tell the truth when they repeat what one who is honest has said.  Everything I say that is of my own understanding is subject to the probability of being proven false and therefore a lie due to my not possessing all knowledge.  Even when I tell the truth according to my conscience.  That in no way negates the premise that God is true.  Thanks for the thought provoking comment. 

 

i see. But I would not call it a lie, if your conscience thinks it is true. For me a lie is a conscious decision to say something we know, or think, it is not true. So, you can be a liar and say something true (that you believe it is false), while being honest and say something false (that you believe it is true).

i am not sure I understand the concept of sin, yet. But I bet it is not a sin if you say something false, if in your heart you believe it is true.

siegi

 

Are you asking yourself that question as well ? You said " in your heart". Thank you dear one !

[angels4u]

No. It would make no difference to atheists. They explain away creation and the very order of the universe through any semi feasible explanation so they would do the same with all supernatural.

 

It would depend on the Atheist. Many Atheists turn to Jesus every day.

There are two types of Atheist  - those who simply don't believe and those that don't want to believe (they have already rejected God).

Your comment would apply to the latter. The former group are merely seekers who haven't found yet.

It's nice to see a sensible comment like this one.  On the other thread they were essentially stating that all atheists are liars.   

If God is AND God is true THEN ALL men are liars including me

 

if you are a liar, then  this statement is a lie. Which means you are not a liar, after all. But if you are not a liar you could not say you are a liar without lying. 

I don't see how to resolve this puzzle without falsifying the premise

 sieglinde

One can be a liar but tell the truth when they repeat what one who is honest has said.  Everything I say that is of my own understanding is subject to the probability of being proven false and therefore a lie due to my not possessing all knowledge.  Even when I tell the truth according to my conscience.  That in no way negates the premise that God is true.  Thanks for the thought provoking comment. 

 

i see. But I would not call it a lie, if your conscience thinks it is true. For me a lie is a conscious decision to say something we know, or think, it is not true. So, you can be a liar and say something true (that you believe it is false), while being honest and say something false (that you believe it is true).

i am not sure I understand the concept of sin, yet. But I bet it is not a sin if you say something false, if in your heart you believe it is true.

siegi

 

Hello Seige,

it has been awhile ago now that you and I had a chat How are you doing and where are you living at the moment is everything well with you?

Praying everything will be well with your soul?

You need Jesus girl.. remember how we talked about that ? I you know Him you can answer the question you were asking very easy..

I will be praying that you will come to the point that you can say "Amen" to this song

 

1. When peace, like a river, attendeth my way,
   When sorrows like sea billows roll;
   Whatever my lot, Thou hast taught me to say,
   It is well, it is well with my soul.
   • Refrain:
     It is well with my soul,
     It is well, it is well with my soul.
2. Though Satan should buffet, though trials should come,
   Let this blest assurance control,
   That Christ hath regarded my helpless estate,
   And hath shed His own blood for my soul.
3. My sin—oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!—
   My sin, not in part but the whole,
   Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
   Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!
4. For me, be it Christ, be it Christ hence to live:
   If Jordan above me shall roll,
   No pang shall be mine, for in death as in life
   Thou wilt whisper Thy peace to my soul.
5. But, Lord, ’tis for Thee, for Thy coming we wait,
   The sky, not the grave, is our goal;
   Oh, trump of the angel! Oh, voice of the Lord!
   Blessed hope, blessed rest of my soul!
6. And Lord, haste the day when the faith shall be sight,
   The clouds be rolled back as a scroll;
   The trump shall resound, and the Lord shall descend,
   Even so, it is well with my soul.

[gdemoss]

No. It would make no difference to atheists. They explain away creation and the very order of the universe through any semi feasible explanation so they would do the same with all supernatural.

 

It would depend on the Atheist. Many Atheists turn to Jesus every day.

There are two types of Atheist  - those who simply don't believe and those that don't want to believe (they have already rejected God).

Your comment would apply to the latter. The former group are merely seekers who haven't found yet.

It's nice to see a sensible comment like this one.  On the other thread they were essentially stating that all atheists are liars.   

If God is AND God is true THEN ALL men are liars including me

 

if you are a liar, then  this statement is a lie. Which means you are not a liar, after all. But if you are not a liar you could not say you are a liar without lying. 

I don't see how to resolve this puzzle without falsifying the premise

 sieglinde

One can be a liar but tell the truth when they repeat what one who is honest has said.  Everything I say that is of my own understanding is subject to the probability of being proven false and therefore a lie due to my not possessing all knowledge.  Even when I tell the truth according to my conscience.  That in no way negates the premise that God is true.  Thanks for the thought provoking comment. 

 

i see. But I would not call it a lie, if your conscience thinks it is true. For me a lie is a conscious decision to say something we know, or think, it is not true. So, you can be a liar and say something true (that you believe it is false), while being honest and say something false (that you believe it is true).

i am not sure I understand the concept of sin, yet. But I bet it is not a sin if you say something false, if in your heart you believe it is true.

siegi

 

siegi,

Yes, this is where we need to define sin and relationship. Thank you, you are very logical. I am going to set forth to define sin as I understand sin so that you and I can discuss with understanding.  I wish to break it down for the sake of clarity because of complexity.

In its simplest form sin means to miss the mark.  For example: In archery the target is designed  with a series of fields and you must hit the bullseye to be on the mark according to the instructions.  Marksmen are known for how often they hit the mark.  

The mark is identified by the one who has authority to label right and wrong.

You, if I remember correctly are an atheist.  You do not have a theology.  Therefore, you are independent from any understanding of any divine source that is set to give you moral judgment and choose for yourself what you believe is right or wrong.  If I have that correct then it stands to reason that the only sin you can 'knowingly or purposefully' commit is the sin against your own conscience.

Sin is committed against the one with authority to judge right or wrong in moral matters.

Relationship is important as it pertains to sin.  There is a sin against conscience where the conscience holds the authority to convince us of wrong doing or right doing.

All people including atheists are people of faith.  The atheists faith lies in the belief that there is insuffiecient evidence that has been presented to the individual to validate any such belief in diety, much less God.  Therefore the atheist is in a faith class all of its own.  The more atheists exist the stronger atheism becomes even though the same applies for all other faiths.

Existence of a belief does not validate the belief as true.  Therefore, I must make room for all who have any belief at all including atheism until such time as God decides there shall be no room for error.  The truth must be that if you can worship any concept of God then there is actually no God.  But God may make allowance for ignorance as God has done throughout the ages. 

So you see, I believe in True atheists.  And I wish to respect them as such.

Yet, I believe ALL men are liars by default because God is true AND we are not like him.

You and I are miles apart in world veiw.  I would love to assist you in coming to believe in God, then further bring you to a place of also believing in Jesus but I am afraid you must have a desire to want to know first. 

If I declare something then the burden of proof is upon me.  I declare that God is.  I declare that there is only one True God.  I declare that God created all things including you.  I declare that anything God created that is unlike God is the enemy of God by default and needs to be brought into subjection unto God who created them and become as he is in truth.

That said siegi, you may already be a lot like God and therefore find that God isn't having a whole lot of trouble with you.  You may have heard or read many things about God that are not true and have an honest warped perception of God.  Of a truth, you may have personal integrity, honesty based upon what you know and therefore your conscience is at rest.

Soon, there is going to be a major movement of people seeking to have absolute dominion over all things and all who deny the power of this entity will be eliminated through any means possible.  God commanded man do subdue the earth and have dominion over it.  Gods word does not go out and come back void. 

I pray you will earnestly seek to eliminate all possibility of error in your atheistic faith and discover the truth so that you can experience a joy, peace and love that you have never known. PEACE BE UPON YOU!

 

 

[*Deidre*]

I considered myself an atheist for two years, after I left Christianity the first time. And I'd have to say no, that 'proving' that Satan exists wouldn't really convince an atheist of good vs evil, or that God exists. Faith doesn't require evidence, but that said, when you are an atheist, you just grow indifferent to the idea of a deity existing. You aren't angry with the idea of it, you just are indifferent. That's how I felt anyway, at that time. I was led back to faith by the Holy Spirit, and i think praying for God to reveal Himself to others as He did with me, is how I think atheists may change their minds. But, they also need to change their hearts.

[Bonky]

I considered myself an atheist for two years, after I left Christianity the first time. And I'd have to say no, that 'proving' that Satan exists wouldn't really convince an atheist of good vs evil, or that God exists. Faith doesn't require evidence, but that said, when you are an atheist, you just grow indifferent to the idea of a deity existing. You aren't angry with the idea of it, you just are indifferent. That's how I felt anyway, at that time. I was led back to faith by the Holy Spirit, and i think praying for God to reveal Himself to others as He did with me, is how I think atheists may change their minds. But, they also need to change their hearts.

That's very much how I feel, pretty indifferent to whether there is a God or not.   Whatever is true, is true no matter what I believe.  So for me the idea that any God is worried about what I believe seems odd.  I don't bat an eye at deism, but theism is just something I can't wrap my mind around.

[*Deidre*]

I considered myself an atheist for two years, after I left Christianity the first time. And I'd have to say no, that 'proving' that Satan exists wouldn't really convince an atheist of good vs evil, or that God exists. Faith doesn't require evidence, but that said, when you are an atheist, you just grow indifferent to the idea of a deity existing. You aren't angry with the idea of it, you just are indifferent. That's how I felt anyway, at that time. I was led back to faith by the Holy Spirit, and i think praying for God to reveal Himself to others as He did with me, is how I think atheists may change their minds. But, they also need to change their hearts.

That's very much how I feel, pretty indifferent to whether there is a God or not.   Whatever is true, is true no matter what I believe.  So for me the idea that any God is worried about what I believe seems odd.  I don't bat an eye at deism, but theism is just something I can't wrap my mind around.

I understand. But, God isn't worried about what you believe. He loves you, and it is hard to imagine such a love as this. Because the world is not filled with love, but rather a lot of bad stuff. It is filled with beauty too, but God's love trumps anything this world can offer.