Sonseeahray Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 40 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1942 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) You are mostly trying to interpret through 21st century eyes - it doesn't work - you have to look for a simple interpretation that fits the big picture of the history of the people to whom John wrote his scroll. Chapter 12 does not contain one shread of prophesy rather John is reviewing the history of the church from the birth of Jesus in 3 BC up to the time John wrote Revelation. It is in chronological order. This includes the escape of the Christians from Jerusalem in 66AD who fled to Pella where they remained all during the tribulation and fall of that city 1,260 days. When the constellation Virgo (virgin) is standing in the sun with the moon under her feet is a pointer. This only happens on one day of the year and that is September 11th. This is believed to be Jesus' birthday. It's history written in symbolism the entire book of Revelation is written in symbols. Edited November 20, 2014 by Sonseeahray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 20, 2014 You are mostly trying to interpret through 21st century eyes - it doesn't work - you have to look for a simple interpretation that fits the big picture of the history of the people to whom John wrote his scroll. Chapter 12 does not contain one shread of prophesy rather John is reviewing the history of the church from the birth of Jesus in 3 BC up to the time John wrote Revelation. It is in chronological order. This includes the escape of the Christians from Jerusalem in 66AD who fled to Pella where they remained all during the tribulation and fall of that city 1,260 days. When the constellation Virgo (virgin) is standing in the sun with the moon under her feet is a pointer. This only happens on one day of the year and that is September 11th. This is believed to be Jesus' birthday. It's history written in symbolism the entire book of Revelation is written in symbols. ======================================================================================================== Who are you talking to here? I'll assume it's me.... You are mostly trying to interpret through 21st century eyes No I'm actually not. Chapter 12 does not contain one shread of prophesy rather John is reviewing the history of the church from the birth of Jesus in 3 BC up to the time John wrote Revelation. Huh? The entire Book of Revelation is "Prophecy"..... "Revelation" means "Unveiling". (Revelation 1:3) "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." "The Church" has nothing whatsoever to do with Revelation 12..... and it was Birthed @ Pentecost and not @ Jesus' birth. This Woman here is Israel.... (Revelation 12:1) "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:" (Genesis 37:9) "And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me." ** Joseph is the Twelfth Star. This includes the escape of the Christians from Jerusalem in 66AD who fled to Pella where they remained all during the tribulation and fall of that city 1,260 days. Say What?? First, John is speaking from the Time of the Seven Churches (when were they established?) then... HEREAFTER: (Revelation 4:1) "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." "After this"--- After what? The Seven Churches. (Revelation 12:5) "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne." This passage is providing background to "WHO" the Woman is. Israel Birthed Christ. Did "The Church" birth Christ? Second we are talking the "great tribulation" here not events from the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD (SEE: HEREAFTER Above). ***And the Christians that fled to Pella (who took heed to Christ's warning in Luke 21) and the Destruction of Jerusalem didn't take 3.5 years/1260 Days!! Please CITE source that says it did.....? Are you saying all these references speak to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD: "Time and Times, and a Dividing of Time": Dan 7:25, Dan 12:7, Rev 12:14; "1260 Days": Rev 11:3, Rev 12:6 ; "42 Months": Rev 11:2, Rev 13:5. ?? You are also getting confused with Matthew 24 (Olivet Discourse) and Luke 21-----Luke's account is not the Olivet Discourse.... Luke's Account is in the Temple during the Day apparently between Jesus all the Disciples and followers.... (Luke 21:5-6) "And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, {6} As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." (Luke 21:9-12) "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. {10} Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: {11} And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. {12} BUT BEFORE ALL THESE, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake." Matthew's Account (Olivet Discourse) is a Private Meeting on the Mount of Olives @ Night between Jesus, Peter, James, John, and Andrew. (Matthew 24:7-9) " {7} For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. {8} All these are the beginning of sorrows. {9} THEN SHALL THEY deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake." The same signs are stated in both accounts; However, after mentioning the same signs, Luke says "BUT Before all these"; Matthew says "Then shall they".... After. Luke's Account............ Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Matthew's Account...... End of Days. Moreover, The Pivotal/Key Event in the Olivet Discourse is the Abomination of Desolation....Please show The Abomination of Desolation in Luke? When the constellation Virgo (virgin) is standing in the sun with the moon under her feet is a pointer. This only happens on one day of the year and that is September 11th. This is believed to be Jesus' birthday. That's quite interesting and painfully irrelevant. You're taking an Idiom (A Woman/Sun/Moon and 12 Stars) a Figure of Speech then attempting to conjure a "Literal" Interpretation. Moreover, where in Revelation 12 does it say that "This Woman" was a Virgin....? If you're implying that this Woman was Mary, why didn't John just say "Mary". He knew her Quite well and was her Caretaker until she died. It's history written in symbolism the entire book of Revelation is written in symbols. How can The Book of Revelation (The "Unveiling") "Prophecy" be about History; when History is already "Unveiled" ? The "Symbols" as you call them are "Idioms". There are over 800 Allusions in the Book of Revelation to the Old Testament. If it's about History, then please provide a Timeline from The Seven Churches until now depicting the events of Revelation..........?? 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other one Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 20, 2014 The only time I can find that the woman in the sky description in Rev 12 actually happens in the real sky is September 23rd 2017.... it has not happened from the time Revelation was written until now and I can't find the next time it will happen after this date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonseeahray Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 40 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1942 Share Posted November 20, 2014 No there is a lot of history in Revelation. Another example is the end of chapter 17 and most of chapter 18 is an inside view of the historical fire of Rome in July of 64AD. Also Nero is referenced again and again in Revelation. In order to understand Revelation you need to know the Old Testament, the history of the New Testament era, and the protocol of the temple. Most of the understanding of this book comes from these sources not the New York Times. I was not addressing you but the Futurist mentality on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 20, 2014 No there is a lot of history in Revelation. Another example is the end of chapter 17 and most of chapter 18 is an inside view of the historical fire of Rome in July of 64AD. Also Nero is referenced again and again in Revelation. In order to understand Revelation you need to know the Old Testament, the history of the New Testament era, and the protocol of the temple. Most of the understanding of this book comes from these sources not the New York Times. I was not addressing you but the Futurist mentality on this site. Just out of curiosity, what came from the New York Times??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonseeahray Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 40 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1942 Share Posted November 20, 2014 No there is a lot of history in Revelation. Another example is the end of chapter 17 and most of chapter 18 is an inside view of the historical fire of Rome in July of 64AD. Also Nero is referenced again and again in Revelation. In order to understand Revelation you need to know the Old Testament, the history of the New Testament era, and the protocol of the temple. Most of the understanding of this book comes from these sources not the New York Times. I was not addressing you but the Futurist mentality on this site. Just out of curiosity, what came from the New York Times??? How is this for starters - all of Futurism is based on this.http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/section/learning/general/onthisday/big/0514_big.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 20, 2014 No there is a lot of history in Revelation. Another example is the end of chapter 17 and most of chapter 18 is an inside view of the historical fire of Rome in July of 64AD. Also Nero is referenced again and again in Revelation. In order to understand Revelation you need to know the Old Testament, the history of the New Testament era, and the protocol of the temple. Most of the understanding of this book comes from these sources not the New York Times. I was not addressing you but the Futurist mentality on this site. Just out of curiosity, what came from the New York Times??? How is this for starters - all of Futurism is based on this.http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/section/learning/general/onthisday/big/0514_big.gif I would say that what you are looking at actually comes from the book of Ezekiel, that is simply a news article pointing out that it has come to pass..... you may disagree with it, but I don't think you can say that it comes from that article... I'll let it rest from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serving Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 934 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 905 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/14/1969 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Hi all, I seriously doubt God would work His signs through the zodiac, in fact I know he wouldn't do that at all. The zodiac 12 came from ancient Babylon, there were actually 13 constellations but the Babylonians plain ignored that fact and dropped one of their gods from the constellations and went with 12. So the individual constellations represented some of their gods, then adopted & adapted by the Greeks and the Romans etc .. This whole constellation imagery is 100% mystery school origin. Here God even mocks them .. Isaiah 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Thus it would be wise not to adopt their counsel (zodic etc) .. God would not use the image of a false god to represent anything which comes from Him. It needs to be abandoned for your own sakes .. This thing is definitely not appropriate for young impressionable minds to be reading and thus corrupting in my opinion. Edited November 20, 2014 by Serving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hi all, I seriously doubt God would work His signs through the zodiac, in fact I know he wouldn't do that at all. The zodiac 12 came from ancient Babylon, there were actually 13 constellations but the Babylonians plain ignored that fact and dropped one of their gods from the constellations and went with 12. So the individual constellations represented some of their gods, then adopted & adapted by the Greeks and the Romans etc .. This whole constellation imagery is 100% mystery school origin. Here God even mocks them .. Isaiah 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Thus it would be wise not to adopt their counsel (zodic etc) .. God would not use the image of a false god to represent anything which comes from Him. It needs to be abandoned for your own sakes .. This thing is definitely not appropriate for young impressionable minds to be reading and thus corrupting in my opinion. why do you think the Meiji searched out Jesus at his birth? Why does the book of Genesis tell us that the stars were put their for signs? Why would the Bible even in Revelation speak of the things in the Stars.... You must be really smart to know these things for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 20, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hi all, I seriously doubt God would work His signs through the zodiac, in fact I know he wouldn't do that at all. The zodiac 12 came from ancient Babylon, there were actually 13 constellations but the Babylonians plain ignored that fact and dropped one of their gods from the constellations and went with 12. So the individual constellations represented some of their gods, then adopted & adapted by the Greeks and the Romans etc .. This whole constellation imagery is 100% mystery school origin. Here God even mocks them .. Isaiah 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Thus it would be wise not to adopt their counsel (zodic etc) .. God would not use the image of a false god to represent anything which comes from Him. It needs to be abandoned for your own sakes .. This thing is definitely not appropriate for young impressionable minds to be reading and thus corrupting in my opinion. why do you think the Meiji searched out Jesus at his birth? Why does the book of Genesis tell us that the stars were put their for signs? Why would the Bible even in Revelation speak of the things in the Stars.... You must be really smart to know these things for sure. =========================================================================================================================== The zodiac 12 came from ancient Babylon, there were actually 13 constellations but the Babylonians plain ignored that fact and dropped one of their gods from the constellations and went with 12 Not so. The Original is the Hebrew Mazzaroth. The Babylonians corrupted it...a counterfeit (SEE: satan) This whole constellation imagery is 100% mystery school origin. For today, 100% Agree. But this is not the Original. The Other One.... why do you think the Meiji searched out Jesus at his birth? Great Question!!! A Better Question: How did the Magi know when....? They were a Hereditary PriestHood with their Roots in Babylon/Persia. Who fore-knew when The Messiah would be on the Scene? .........Daniel. (Dan 9:25-26) Who was put in Charge of this Hereditary PriestHood for a Time? .......Daniel. Obviously, I can't support this Scripturally. Do I need to Notwithstanding, I find the alignment you spoke of fascinating; However, it would have ZERO to do with The Woman of Revelation 12 since it's an Idiom (Figure of Speech) clearly associated with Joseph's Dream in Genesis 37:9. That would have you take "Literal"...... a Rhetorical Device. That's not gonna end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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