Woman , Man Child, dragon

[RevelationWriter]

The woman of God fled into the wilderness and the evil whore rode in after her to kill her. When found and seen by John in vision, she was drunk with the blood of the saints. The whore cannot be the good woman whom she attempted to kill.

Lam.1:1 - "How Lonely Sits The City (Jerusalem v.7,8) That Was Full Of People! How Like A Widow Is She.."  (Isaiah 47:8 - Rev.18:7)

 

[Kan]

The woman of God fled into the wilderness and the evil whore rode in after her to kill her. When found and seen by John in vision, she was drunk with the blood of the saints. The whore cannot be the good woman whom she attempted to kill.

Lam.1:1 - "How Lonely Sits The City (Jerusalem v.7,8) That Was Full Of People! How Like A Widow Is She.."  (Isaiah 47:8 - Rev.18:7)

 

Yes, apostate Israel was called unfaithful by God, and so the Christian church apostatized until she became the woman which ruled the dark ages. 

[Montana Marv]

Kan

There is no such thing as a 2,300 year prophecy in Daniel.  Daniel 8:14 - It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.  The 2.300 is referring to literal days.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Kan]

Kan

There is no such thing as a 2,300 year prophecy in Daniel.  Daniel 8:14 - It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.  The 2.300 is referring to literal days.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The context of this verse is the whole chapter which tells of the Persian and Grecian empires, and a third empire greater than Greece, and it comes down to the time when that third world power would trample on the truth and cast it to the ground. This is in line with chapter 7, and chapter 7 is another more detailed view of chapter 2.

The vision in discussion here covers the time period from Persia to the end of the Papacy. 

The proof of that is when we calculate in literal time, the whole of Daniel (and Revelation) doesn't have any congruence with history or the book itself.

The 2300 literal days do not even fit in with local time. And as for the prediction of Christ's death, it is obliterated.

Christ said that the predictions in Daniel were applicable in His day, even to the disciples who would soon flee Jerusalem. So they could not have been fulfilled in Daniel's time.

Daniel was also a sealed book, until "the time of the end."

This expression does not mean "the end of time" as many casual readers interpret, but it refers to the time of the end of the 2300 days, which mark the end of all the time prophecies in Daniel. See chart.

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

The 490 year prophecy was given to Daniel as an explanation for the 2300 years, because Daniel was concerned for the people of Israel and the center of its worship the temple, which was supposed to be filled with the glory of God and not abominations. So the angel explains the fate of Israel and how it fits into the greater picture of the temple in heaven and its services by Christ, because the 2300 years is talking about the greater temple in heaven and not the earthly which would come to an end as predicted.

So the prophetic time spans connected with the beginning of the 2300 years relate to the earthly, and the time spans connected to the end of the 2300 years are concerned with the Antichrist trampling on the rightful place of the heavenly sanctuary in the world through the gospel. The title of the Pope is the vicar of Christ (on earth). No he is not.

How did the Antichrist subvert the truth? by setting up itself as the representative of God on earth and making its own false priesthood. But we worship the Lord Jesus Christ as our high priest and we count on His ministry for us in the heavenly temple.

The Papacy was set up in 508 AD, it began to reign in 538 AD, and ended in 1798 AD.

Daniel 12, The 1335 years are from the set up of the Papacy till the end of the 2300 years. The 1290 years are from the set up until the end of the 1260 years of reign.

This same horn power is still alive today, after receiving a deadly wound in 1798 AD, and it will soon have it's last stand before being destroyed by the returning Christ.

I am sorry Kan, but your historical information is incorrect.

[thereselittleflower]

Some here have discussed how could the evil one and his followers not figure out that the woman was hiding in Petra?

Has anyone ever seen how under hypnosis a subject can be made to forget a number? They say they cannot make you do anything against your will under hypnosis, but to me at least this proves the opposite. The artist hypnotizes the subject and tells them not to remember the number four. Wakes them up and asks how many fingers are on each hand?

The subject shrugs with the obvious answer "Five." Count your fingers the artist says. Okay, one, two, three, five six... six? Again, one, two, three, five, six... Well I'll be hornswoggled. I always thought it was five.

Would this ability be beyond Almighty God to provide for his remnant a sanctuary in Petra in the wilderness?

I think the Romans were more interested in making a statement to the Jews by destroying their Temple and Jerusalem, than pursuing those who escaped, such as the christians, to Petra.

Jerusalem and the Temple were their goals.

You don't anticipate a future event? Eusebius said of the 70 A.D. event:

"The people belonging to the church at Jerusalem had been ordered by an oracle revealed to approved men on the spot before the war broke out, to leave the city and dwell in a town of Peraea called Pella" 

He was talking about 70 AD.

The quote is from Ecclesiastical History Book III chapter 5

Chapter 5. The Last Siege of the Jews after Christ.

1. After Nero had held the power thirteen years, and Galba and Otho had ruled a year and six months,Vespasian, who had become distinguished in the campaigns against the Jews, was proclaimed sovereign inJudea and received the title of Emperor from the armies there. Setting out immediately, therefore, forRome, he entrusted the conduct of the war against the Jews to his son Titus.

2. For the Jews after the ascension of our Saviour, in addition to their crime against him, had been devising as many plots as they could against his apostles. First Stephen was stoned to death by them, and after him James, the son of Zebedee and the brother of John, was beheaded, and finally James, the first that had obtained the episcopal seat in Jerusalem after the ascension of our Saviour, died in the manner already described. But the rest of the apostles, who had been incessantly plotted against with a view to their destruction, and had been driven out of the land of Judea, went unto all nations to preach the Gospel,relying upon the power of Christ, who had said to them, Go and make disciples of all the nations in myname.

3. But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella.And when those that believed in Christ had come there from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.

4. But the number of calamities which everywhere fell upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable—all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, Daniel 9:27 stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire — all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus.

5. But it is necessary to state that this writer records that the multitude of those who were assembled from all Judea at the time of the Passover, to the number of three million souls, were shut up in Jerusalemas in a prison, to use his own words.

6. For it was right that in the very days in which they had inflicted suffering upon the Saviour and the Benefactor of all, the Christ of God, that in those days, shut up as in a prison, they should meet with destruction at the hands of divine justice.

7. But passing by the particular calamities which they suffered from the attempts made upon them by the sword and by other means, I think it necessary to relate only the misfortunes which the famine caused, that those who read this work may have some means of knowing that God was not long in executing vengeance upon them for their wickedness against the Christ of God.

 

 

I'm not sure I understand your question in relationship to this though.

 

 

Well, if not for the situation, it would make for an interesting camping trip:

14“When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’^a standing where it^b does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15Let no one on the housetop go down or enter the house to take anything out. 16Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 

I assume that means "don't pack a tent either!" No shelter for 3.5 years in the desert - not many places there with much space inside, and not abundant food or water . . .  not your typical picnic! Hmmm . . . .  that instruction seems to say to flee to the mountains . . . . Petra is in a Valley! In any case, God is a God of miracles.

 

As you see Eusebius tells of the abomination of desolation during the 70 AD event, and that this was well documented by Josephus.   I've read Josephus' account and he makes it very clear how the Romans did indeed do this.  And it wasn't just any old day, it was the Passover so there were millions shut up in Jerusalem by the Romans.  Josephus, he says, numbers them at 3 million souls.

The next chapter goes on to talk of the famine the Romans forced upon those Jews locked inside of Jerusalem.  The suffering was very, very great.

 

Now is there a future fulfillment to this?  Some people who acknowledge the fulfillment in 70 AD also look for future fulfillment as well.  

 

I'm not sure what you mean by petra being in a valley  - it's deep in the desert.

Deep within the deserts of Jordan lies the ancient city of Petra. Through a narrow gorge it emerges into view, revealing awe-inspiring monuments cut into the surrounding cliffs. 

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/past-exhibitions/petra

I have been there Therese, I know where it is, and what it looks like, lol. Not sure how things are deep in the desert, instead of out in the desert. It is in a valley (Wadi Musa.- Valley of Moses). The relevance of my posts, was to several things being discussed - the notion that the fleeing might be to Petra - I pointed out that in 70 A.D., beleivers fled to Pella, not Petra. I was also noting, that Jesus said to flee to the mountains - Pella might at least meet that discription, being in foothills, where as Petra does not, being in a low part after a long trek across a pretty flat desert. On the way to Petra (from Amman, the way I went) I recall seeing Bedouin shepherds with their sheep, and wondering how on Earth that works, since at that point, there was not a plant in sight, just flat, dry ground. I guess if Bedouin shepherds can keep sheep alive in that wilderness, God can do at least as much!

A.D. 70 might be a type or a prefillment of the abomination of desolation that Jesus referred to:

He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

but I do not think it fulfilled the part about a 7 year covenant, that seems to me more likely to be an event yet to come, not anything that has yet occurred. 

 

I was confusing Petra with Pella.

I had a reply I was working on the power to my computer went off.  Sigh . .. lol

 

 

[RevelationWriter]

Fled Into the Wilderness means the 'city' woman Turned into the Wilderness. Void of people.

[Kan]

The 490 year prophecy was given to Daniel as an explanation for the 2300 years, because Daniel was concerned for the people of Israel and the center of its worship the temple, which was supposed to be filled with the glory of God and not abominations. So the angel explains the fate of Israel and how it fits into the greater picture of the temple in heaven and its services by Christ, because the 2300 years is talking about the greater temple in heaven and not the earthly which would come to an end as predicted.

So the prophetic time spans connected with the beginning of the 2300 years relate to the earthly, and the time spans connected to the end of the 2300 years are concerned with the Antichrist trampling on the rightful place of the heavenly sanctuary in the world through the gospel. The title of the Pope is the vicar of Christ (on earth). No he is not.

How did the Antichrist subvert the truth? by setting up itself as the representative of God on earth and making its own false priesthood. But we worship the Lord Jesus Christ as our high priest and we count on His ministry for us in the heavenly temple.

The Papacy was set up in 508 AD, it began to reign in 538 AD, and ended in 1798 AD.

Daniel 12, The 1335 years are from the set up of the Papacy till the end of the 2300 years. The 1290 years are from the set up until the end of the 1260 years of reign.

This same horn power is still alive today, after receiving a deadly wound in 1798 AD, and it will soon have it's last stand before being destroyed by the returning Christ.

I am sorry Kan, but your historical information is incorrect.

Please qualify your objection- give a brief reason for it. It does not have to be a reference to a whole library, just a comment like - "the date 457 BC how did you arrive at that?"

Edited October 26, 2015 by Kan

[Montana Marv]

Kan

Your whole timeline is off.  There are no 2,300 year Scriptures, as with 1,260; 1,290; 1,355.  All referred to as days.  If you say they are years.  Then Jonah was 3 years in the belly of the fish and Christ was 3 years in the heart of the earth.  The 70th Week has not begun yet.  Christ was crucified at the end of the 69th Week.  There are 1,260 days before the A/D and there are 1,260 days after the A/D.  (the 70th Week). There are an addition 30 days and another 45 days added to the second 1,260 period (1,290 & 1,335); then the end. Daniel 12: 11,12

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[MorningGlory]

Kan

There is no such thing as a 2,300 year prophecy in Daniel.  Daniel 8:14 - It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.  The 2.300 is referring to literal days.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The context of this verse is the whole chapter which tells of the Persian and Grecian empires, and a third empire greater than Greece, and it comes down to the time when that third world power would trample on the truth and cast it to the ground. This is in line with chapter 7, and chapter 7 is another more detailed view of chapter 2.

The vision in discussion here covers the time period from Persia to the end of the Papacy. 

The proof of that is when we calculate in literal time, the whole of Daniel (and Revelation) doesn't have any congruence with history or the book itself.

The 2300 literal days do not even fit in with local time. And as for the prediction of Christ's death, it is obliterated.

Christ said that the predictions in Daniel were applicable in His day, even to the disciples who would soon flee Jerusalem. So they could not have been fulfilled in Daniel's time.

Daniel was also a sealed book, until "the time of the end."

This expression does not mean "the end of time" as many casual readers interpret, but it refers to the time of the end of the 2300 days, which mark the end of all the time prophecies in Daniel. See chart.

 

 

As a less than 'casual' reader....where did that chart come from?  Is it your own or did you get it from somewhere?