"The Stupidty of the American Voter"

[Guest shiloh357]

Jonathan Gruber, a key architect of Obamacare (and also of Romneycare), has been caught on camera by the Daily Signal offering up insights on the “stupidity of the American voter” and on the importance of using a noble lie (or lies) in passing Obamacare. 

 

Gruber said of Obamacare:

 

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the [individual] mandate as taxes.  If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies.”

 

 

President Obama publicly insisted the individual mandate was not a tax, and Obamacare’s own text describes it as a “penalty,” not a “tax.”  Yet, by a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court held that the mandate was unconstitutional as a penalty levied under the commerce-clause power and could stand only as a tax — albeit a previously unheard-of tax that compels Americans to buy a product or service of the federal government’s choosing in order to avoid having to pay it.  It’s an unprecedented federal tax on inactivity.

 

Gruber, however, didn’t end his discussion with the individual mandate.  He went on to say the following:

 

“In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said healthy people are gonna pay in — you’ve made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed.  Okay?  Just like the...people — transparent — lack of transparency is a huge political advantage.  And basically, you know, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever.”

 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-architect-stupidity-american-voter_818514.html

 

[Guest shiloh357]

While we knew that Obama lied about the nature of the new health care law, we now have someone in his own camp, on camera admitting that they had to lie to the American people on purpose in order to pass what they knew that no intelligent person would accept.

 

As noted before:  "The Obama presidency is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people." ~ Clint Eastwood   

 

This is why the modern Democratic party cannot be trusted. 

[Guest shiloh357]

The American people as a whole never supported Obamacare, even after having been lied to about being able to keep our insurance if we like it, and promises our rates would go down.  Democrats in Congress passed this bill against the will of the American people using reconciliation, a method never intended to be used for a massive bill like Obamacare.  The Democrats didn't care what damage this bill would do.  They passed it to help give Obama a legacy, and because they have wanted to destroy our health care system to force us into a single payer system.  I don't think you can blame this on the American people being stupid or being fooled, unless they mean the American people were stupid in electing Obama and the Democrats.  If that is what they mean, I agree.  People bought into Obama's campaign based on lies and deceit, and didn't realize what he had in mind in "re-making" this country. 

I think he was using the word "stupid" in the sense of their naivete and gullibility in accepting this Obamacare.  It's in part why they voted for him for a second term.  Had Obamacare been enacted before the 2012 elections, Obama would not have gotten a second term.

 

They knew that when the truth came out that it would be unpopular but by then we would be stuck with it and he would not be in any re-election jeopardy.  It was the Dems in Congress that would be in trouble come re-election time and he basically threw them under the bus.

 

I think it is interesting that he blames the Senate loss to the fact that the administration failed to sell us on his policies sufficiently.  If they had done a better job in selling his policies, particularly Obamacare, then we would understand why his lame polices are good for us.  It hasn't dawned on him yet that Americans actually DO understand what he is trying to sell and we have decided now, that we don't want what he is selling.  We don't like his product.  The problem isn't with PR.  The problem is that Obama's policies are bad polices and enough Americans have been burned by his Liberal, socialist imbecilic policies that they have decided that they want things back the way they were.

 

Obama claims to understand the pain Americans are feeling with the unemployment being so high and high prices at the gas pump and the pain that Americans feel having to work low wage jobs while trying to figure out how they will afford what they need to live and still be able to send their kids through college.  The problem for Obama though, is that he can't seem to understand that HE is the reason people are in those predicaments.  He claims to feel our pain but he is the cause of our pain.

[Guest Teditis]

This whole subject and the renewed & recent angst over it seems funny to me.

The American people didn't vote on the bill... congress people did. And then they

passed a law that they didn't read and most likely wasn't even written completely.

They are guilty of doing worse than buying a pig in the poke... they bought a

mystery animal in a poke when they accepted Nancy Pelosi's line that they needed

to pass the bill in order to see what's in it. So the shame is equally on them.

 

The Republicans can't be angry now, that they, in some measure, allowed an

unwritten and unread bill to be passed into law. And to say that it was poorly written and

deceitful in nature is just "sour-grapes" in light that that didn't stand up and do something

like taking it to court at the time... simply saying that we can't bring an unfinished bill up

for vote because there is, in essence, nothing to vote on. No bill, no vote.

 

But they didn't do that... so they have no argument now. And to the best of my knowledge

there aren't any applicable laws against lying politicians selling pigs in pokes to their gullible

counter-parts. If we're lucky, perhaps they can pull funding for the law until they can rewrite

it into something more manageable and fair to the noble public.

Meanwhile, I'll get back to laughing them to scorn.

[Guest shiloh357]

This whole subject and the renewed & recent angst over it seems funny to me.

The American people didn't vote on the bill... congress people did. And then they

passed a law that they didn't read and most likely wasn't even written completely.

They are guilty of doing worse than buying a pig in the poke... they bought a

mystery animal in a poke when they accepted Nancy Pelosi's line that they needed

to pass the bill in order to see what's in it. So the shame is equally on them.

No one claimed that the American people voted for the bill.   That's not the point.  The point is that elections are referendums on poltical policies and Americans by a majority were in favor of the healthcare law until it was rolled out.  The American people voted for Obama a second time and had they understood what was in the bill, they would have not voted for Obama a second time, at least they would not have given him the landslide that he got the second time.   The American people naviely trusted this administration and no one demanded to see what was in the bill. 

 

That was Gruber's point.  They had to lie to the people and take advantage of the general apathy and naivete in order to help ensure that Obama could be re-elected.  Had the American people put the brakes on this and asked what was in the bill, things might have turned out differently.  The take away from this has  to do with how our leaders view us, the American people.  They look at the American people like we are a bunch of Homer Simpsons. 

 

 

The Republicans can't be angry now, that they, in some measure, allowed an

unwritten and unread bill to be passed into law. And to say that it was poorly written and

deceitful in nature is just "sour-grapes" in light that that didn't stand up and do something

like taking it to court at the time... simply saying that we can't bring an unfinished bill up

for vote because there is, in essence, nothing to vote on. No bill, no vote.

 

Obama held all of the levers of power and the vote was pushed through and it was 100% Democrat led.  The Republicans didn't "let" it pass.  Every Republican voted against it.  And it is not the Republicans that are saying it was deceitful now.  It is one of Obama's architects of the bill that says it was worded in a way that was deceitful in order to skew the true nature of the bill.  This isn't sour grapes.  We have it from the guy who was part of making sure that the American people were deceived and lied to. 

[ayin jade]

There was also a lot of bully tactics used to push through obamacare. Take the case of joe lieberman for instance. He planned to vote against it. Then they (democrats) came after his wife. She was some big shot working for I think it was the koman foundation. They threatened to have her job taken away if he did not vote for the bill. He caved in and voted for it. I remember this happening at the time of the vote. Liberals tried to dismiss the ties to his vote, but the attacks started when he refused to vote for it and ended after he voted for it. 

 

http://newsbusters.org/non-journalists/hadassah-lieberman

[1x1is1]

Socialists don't refer to the general public as stupid, they say that they are "useful idiots".

[JustinM]

 

This whole subject and the renewed & recent angst over it seems funny to me.

The American people didn't vote on the bill... congress people did. And then they

passed a law that they didn't read and most likely wasn't even written completely.

They are guilty of doing worse than buying a pig in the poke... they bought a

mystery animal in a poke when they accepted Nancy Pelosi's line that they needed

to pass the bill in order to see what's in it. So the shame is equally on them.

No one claimed that the American people voted for the bill.   That's not the point.  The point is that elections are referendums on poltical policies and Americans by a majority were in favor of the healthcare law until it was rolled out.  The American people voted for Obama a second time and had they understood what was in the bill, they would have not voted for Obama a second time, at least they would not have given him the landslide that he got the second time.   The American people naviely trusted this administration and no one demanded to see what was in the bill. 

 

That was Gruber's point.  They had to lie to the people and take advantage of the general apathy and naivete in order to help ensure that Obama could be re-elected.  Had the American people put the brakes on this and asked what was in the bill, things might have turned out differently.  The take away from this has  to do with how our leaders view us, the American people.  They look at the American people like we are a bunch of Homer Simpsons. 

 

 

The Republicans can't be angry now, that they, in some measure, allowed an

unwritten and unread bill to be passed into law. And to say that it was poorly written and

deceitful in nature is just "sour-grapes" in light that that didn't stand up and do something

like taking it to court at the time... simply saying that we can't bring an unfinished bill up

for vote because there is, in essence, nothing to vote on. No bill, no vote.

 

Obama held all of the levers of power and the vote was pushed through and it was 100% Democrat led.  The Republicans didn't "let" it pass.  Every Republican voted against it.  And it is not the Republicans that are saying it was deceitful now.  It is one of Obama's architects of the bill that says it was worded in a way that was deceitful in order to skew the true nature of the bill.  This isn't sour grapes.  We have it from the guy who was part of making sure that the American people were deceived and lied to. 

 

 

Quote Teditis: "The Republicans can't be angry now, that they, in some measure, allowed an unwritten and unread bill to be passed into law."

 

I don't know how long you've been in the US, or involved in politics, all I know is that you are maybe from South Carolina, based on what you put for your current location.  But, what you said is not true.  As Brother Shiloh already pointed out, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was passed by 100% of Democrats, and 0% Republicans. There was nothing the Republicans could have done to stop it.  A super majority in the Senate passed it, and 219 (1 vote more than the minimum) in the House of Representatives voted to pass it in reconciliation, which was an abuse of Congress's rules.  This was the Democrats 1 shot to lay the groundwork for a single payer system and they took it. 

 

4 years later, the 3rd opportunity We the People got to hold the 2008 Senate accountable for forcing this law on us, we took, and unseated 8, possibly 9 Democrats (pending outcome of Mary Lendreau of Louisiana).  Every year, since the ACA was passed, the democrats have lost seats in Congress. 

 

The whole distressing part of this situation, is that all the people that voted for it, and then the President who signed it, had no idea what they were voting on or signing, yet they did it anyway.  Since that infamous day, the President has had to lie about, delay, manipulate data, and cover up all the problems associated with this law.  Now that there will be no more elections for him to worry about, the true horror of this law will be revealed, and the working class will be affected the most by it.

[Guest Teditis]

 

 

This whole subject and the renewed & recent angst over it seems funny to me.

The American people didn't vote on the bill... congress people did. And then they

passed a law that they didn't read and most likely wasn't even written completely.

They are guilty of doing worse than buying a pig in the poke... they bought a

mystery animal in a poke when they accepted Nancy Pelosi's line that they needed

to pass the bill in order to see what's in it. So the shame is equally on them.

No one claimed that the American people voted for the bill.   That's not the point.  The point is that elections are referendums on poltical policies and Americans by a majority were in favor of the healthcare law until it was rolled out.  The American people voted for Obama a second time and had they understood what was in the bill, they would have not voted for Obama a second time, at least they would not have given him the landslide that he got the second time.   The American people naviely trusted this administration and no one demanded to see what was in the bill. 

 

That was Gruber's point.  They had to lie to the people and take advantage of the general apathy and naivete in order to help ensure that Obama could be re-elected.  Had the American people put the brakes on this and asked what was in the bill, things might have turned out differently.  The take away from this has  to do with how our leaders view us, the American people.  They look at the American people like we are a bunch of Homer Simpsons. 

 

 

The Republicans can't be angry now, that they, in some measure, allowed an

unwritten and unread bill to be passed into law. And to say that it was poorly written and

deceitful in nature is just "sour-grapes" in light that that didn't stand up and do something

like taking it to court at the time... simply saying that we can't bring an unfinished bill up

for vote because there is, in essence, nothing to vote on. No bill, no vote.

 

Obama held all of the levers of power and the vote was pushed through and it was 100% Democrat led.  The Republicans didn't "let" it pass.  Every Republican voted against it.  And it is not the Republicans that are saying it was deceitful now.  It is one of Obama's architects of the bill that says it was worded in a way that was deceitful in order to skew the true nature of the bill.  This isn't sour grapes.  We have it from the guy who was part of making sure that the American people were deceived and lied to. 

 

 

Quote Teditis: "The Republicans can't be angry now, that they, in some measure, allowed an unwritten and unread bill to be passed into law."

 

I don't know how long you've been in the US, or involved in politics, all I know is that you are maybe from South Carolina, based on what you put for your current location.  But, what you said is not true.  As Brother Shiloh already pointed out, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was passed by 100% of Democrats, and 0% Republicans. There was nothing the Republicans could have done to stop it.  A super majority in the Senate passed it, and 219 (1 vote more than the minimum) in the House of Representatives voted to pass it in reconciliation, which was an abuse of Congress's rules.  This was the Democrats 1 shot to lay the groundwork for a single payer system and they took it. 

 

4 years later, the 3rd opportunity We the People got to hold the 2008 Senate accountable for forcing this law on us, we took, and unseated 8, possibly 9 Democrats (pending outcome of Mary Lendreau of Louisiana).  Every year, since the ACA was passed, the democrats have lost seats in Congress. 

 

The whole distressing part of this situation, is that all the people that voted for it, and then the President who signed it, had no idea what they were voting on or signing, yet they did it anyway.  Since that infamous day, the President has had to lie about, delay, manipulate data, and cover up all the problems associated with this law.  Now that there will be no more elections for him to worry about, the true horror of this law will be revealed, and the working class will be affected the most by it.

 

 

I grew up in and around Washington DC and spent my youth with the kids of politicians

and world leaders. I even dated some. Then I worked for Gov't (DoD) Contractors into my late 40's

and also spent time in the military... and also worked closely with some of the same people in both

situations. In short, I feel very confident of my familiarity with the workings of such people and the collective

mindset that is often rather common in that group of people. (without stereotyping)

 

But putting all that trivia aside, I disagree with your assertion that the Republicans didn't let it pass...

that in fact they did much worse than merely let it pass... they set a new precedent.

They had the ability to attack the forcing of an incomplete bill through Congress... there are remedies

already in place for that that they never used.

Regardless of the intimidation and scare tactics that were used back then, the Republicans folded and

caved in to the real and perceived pressures and did not hold fast to their rhetoric.

 

As to the notion that the people voting for Obama for a 2nd term were basically approving the unread/unfinished

bill, I don't see it that way... people voting for Obama were voting for the Progressive Party's ideological

stance and not much else. They hate conservatism in general and will vote for anyone who is also against it...

they're here to radically change America into something we wouldn't even recognize. (And they've made great

end-roads to doing just that.

What distresses me the most about all this kind of thing is people thinking and acting as though the Republicans

are the Party of God... which is nonsense. They may have aspects that are "better" than the Democrats/Progressives

in respect to some biblical ideals, but they fall far short from me calling them "Godly", at any level... take a political

sciences class and you'll see that nobody thinks of the 2 parties as being at opposite ends of some spectrum, they

teach that that are all part of the same circle. The Progressives aren't the problem here... it's the citizenry that allows

for the current system to remain intact while being substantially broken. 

 

And as for whatever your "brother" points out... I wouldn't know, I keep noisy, hard-hearted characters on Ignore.

[Guest shiloh357]

But putting all that trivia aside, I disagree with your assertion that the Republicans didn't let it pass...

that in fact they did much worse than merely let it pass... they set a new precedent.

They had the ability to attack the forcing of an incomplete bill through Congress... there are remedies

already in place for that that they never used.

Regardless of the intimidation and scare tactics that were used back then, the Republicans folded and

caved in to the real and perceived pressures and did not hold fast to their rhetoric.

 

Complete nonsense.    There were no remedies in place that could have prevented the vote from taking place.  The Republicans did not hold either the House or Senate and there was no recourse for then once it went to the floor to a vote.  The Dems would not even let anyone read the bill before it was voted on.

 

As to the notion that the people voting for Obama for a 2nd term were basically approving the unread/unfinished

bill, I don't see it that way... people voting for Obama were voting for the Progressive Party's ideological

stance and not much else.

 

That's not true.  Obamacare WAS part of their ideological stance in that Obamacare is apex of Liberal ideology.   Obamacare represents the core values of modern social Liberals.   Had Obamacare been rolled out and millions lost health care before Obama was re-elected and had everyone found out how extensively they had been lied to, there is no way Obama would have been reelected.  They knew that, which is why they waited until after his re-election to roll it out.

 

What distresses me the most about all this kind of thing is people thinking and acting as though the Republicans

are the Party of God... which is nonsense.

 

Yeah that would be nonsense if there was even one smidgeon truth to what you claim.