The Church is Out of Order.

[ann2]

Nighthawk,welcome to worthy .Stick around it gets even better.

[Guest Nighthawk]

Nighthawk,welcome to worthy .Stick around it gets even better.

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thank you, ann2!

(With.." .. much love in Christ" ... to you also

[PetriFB]

Hi everyone, I'm Nighthawk, and this is my first post.

After spending quite a bit of time reading (and enjoying) all of

your posts in this thread, I believe I've found a strong fellowship

of mature and loving Christian brothers and sisters.

I look forward to mdulin2004's reply to the excellent discussion that she

began here.

While every poster had very good points, and something to either teach

or remind the others of, the comment that touched a chord with me perhaps

more than any other, came from Yod:

We have far too many seeking high positions instead of low ones.

I'm very happy to have found you all, and look forward to reading more

of your comments on the rest of the board.

Hawk

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http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/Thecongr...ninthewordofGod

Bible teaches, that local congregation leading elders, which are leaders and shepherds of the congregation. God has regulated in His word, that group of men together lead one congregation of the God with one locality. In the division, there is many different denomination, which lead generally one man, who has as his assistance of elders! Leader disease is most common reason of the division. This kind of will that somebody alone lead the congregation and its teaching is seed that division spread more and more. The person often also as believer wants to control other people and to lead alone his own party. This kind of will for leading alone is carnally and sin before God, because Bible teaches, that local congregation is leading together group of men, elders and not one man.

In the flesh of the man lives also spirit of division, which wants to stand out from the other people, generally on this motive; person want to be better than another or he want to be more correct on his doctrine as another. Is the reason of the division whatever, so it is always carnally and sin before God. Only such disintegration is acceptable, where is clear heresy, and for the sake of that we must recede separation of these, which teach clear heresy.

[JimR-OCDS]

Jim.

Who are the apostles today?

If you follow the apostolic succession from the apostle's to today, you'll find the Bishops of the Catholic Church.

Edited January 14, 2005 by JimR-OCDS

[Ovedya]

Jim.

Who are the apostles today?

If you follow the apostolic succession from the apostle's to today, you'll find the Bishops of the Catholic Church.

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But there is nothing in the Bible at all concerning "apostolic succession." And your first reply would seem to imply that there are no longer any apostles.

[Guest Nighthawk]

PetriFB-forgive me, but I'm lost as to why you quoted me, and then posted what you did. Am I missing something? Obviously it was intended to respond to my post, but how?

http-//koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/Thecongr...ninthewordofGod

Bible teaches, that local congregation leading elders, which are leaders and shepherds of the congregation. God has regulated in His word, that group of men together lead one congregation of the God with one locality. In the division, there is many different denomination, which lead generally one man, who has as his assistance of elders! Leader disease is most common reason of the division. This kind of will that somebody alone lead the congregation and its teaching is seed that division spread more and more. The person often also as believer wants to control other people and to lead alone his own party. This kind of will for leading alone is carnally and sin before God, because Bible teaches, that local congregation is leading together group of men, elders and not one man.

In the flesh of the man lives also spirit of division, which wants to stand out from the other people, generally on this motive; person want to be better than another or he want to be more correct on his doctrine as another. Is the reason of the division whatever, so it is always carnally and sin before God. Only such disintegration is acceptable, where is clear heresy, and for the sake of that we must recede separation of these, which teach clear heresy.

[papasangel]

The main problem I see is that some churches are moving away from literal biblical teachings in the name of being politically correct. Heaven forbid the truth treads on toes ( and I am talking about all of us here folks) Most ministries are trying but failing to correctly teach what the Bible says because things like the ACLU and others threaten them with lawsuits for condemming a lifestyle or maybe preaching that all are sinners things like that. Folks the bible was given to us for a reason. Its the inspired Word of God. Its not a touchy feely feel good gospel its a lifesaving (eternal lifesaving) tool for which we are to live by. Yet the majority of us fail even though we try hard. Thank God for Jesus. Even if we fail He is there for us standing up for our sins and taking them on himself for those of us who profess Him.

[papasangel]

BTW welcome to Worthy Nighthawk we hope you willjoin us in the chat rooms once in a while and get to know us.

[Guest The Chief]

Evaluation of Church Government:

In evaluating the three forms of church government, the episcopal form is based partly on the authority of the apostles, which really does not have a counterpart in the New Testament church beyond the apostolic era. Christ had given a unique authority to the Twelve (Luke 9:1) that cannot be claimed by any person or group, nor is there a biblical basis for any form of apostolic succession. The authority Jesus gave to Peter (Matt. 16:18, 19) was given to all the apostles (Matt. 18:18; John 20:23) but no successive group. The episcopal form of church government can be seen in the second century but not the first. Adherents: Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist. Authority: Bishops

The presbyterian form of church government has strong support for it's view of the plurality of the elders; there are many New Testament examples. The New Testament, however, reveals no organization beyond the local church. Adherents: Presbyterian, Reformed. Authority: Elders

The congregational form of church government finds biblical support for all the people being involved in the decision-making of the church. Adherents: Congregational, Baptist, Mennonite, Evangelical Free. Authority: Congregation

It can safely be said that elements of both the presbyterian and congregational forms of church government find support in Scripture.

Source: Moody Handbook of Theology, pp. 358, 359

[Guest Nighthawk]

BTW welcome to Worthy Nighthawk we hope you willjoin us in the chat rooms once in a while and get to know us.

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