Matthias

[Tinky]

Matthias was, or course, chosen to replace Judas as the 12th Apostle, but then we don't hear anything else about him. My question is: Did Paul replace Matthias as the 12th Apostle? 

[Littlelambseativy]

No.

[The_Patriot21]

No, Matthias was the 12th. Paul was an "apostle" but not of the 12 he kinda did his own thing. His role was slightly different then that of the apostle's.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Tinky.....Heres the link http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/judas.html

    I know your question has already been answered but I want to just add this interesting bit for you

Acts 1:24-26, "And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles."

Now, since only at that point Matthias was numbered with the eleven, this obviously means that he wasn't numbered before (the Greek word that is translated as "numbered" in the above passage is the verb sugkatapsephizo, which means "to be numbered with", "to be counted with" or "to be calculated with" and denotes the inclusion of something/someone into a particular group). Therefore, whenever we meet the expression the "twelve" and the reference is to events that happened before Acts 1:26 what is meant is the twelve of Luke 6:13 that included Judas. On the other hand, when this expression refers to events that happened after the inclusion of Matthias then what is meant is the new composition of the group that excluded Judas and included Matthias. Bearing this in mind we should not have any problem to understand who are the twelve of I Corinthians 15. The corresponding passage refers to the appearance that happened before "Matthias was numbered with the eleven."

Therefore, since at that time, Matthias was not yet one of the twelve, the expression "by the twelve" of I Corinthians 15 refers to the original twelve of Luke 6:13 that included Judas. This does not mean that Matthias didn't see the resurrected Jesus, because he did, indeed, see it. In fact, in his proposal given in Acts 1:15-23, Peter says:

    "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John to that day when he was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection" (Acts 1:21-22).

For Matthias to be proposed (Acts 1:23) it means that he fulfilled all these requirements. The fact that except of the twelve others also saw the resurrected Christ is also confirmed by the gospels (Luke 24:33-36) and by I Corinthians 15:6 that speaks for an appearance to "five hundred brethren." The point, therefore, is not whether Matthias was a witness of the resurrection for he certainly was. The point is whether, at the time of the resurrection, he was counted with the eleven apostles. As scripture tells us, he was not.

Some claim that, even though Matthias was not an apostle at the time of Jesus' resurrection, he was an apostle at the time the book of Corinthians was written. Therefore, they referred to Matthias as an apostle (in 1 Corinthians 15:3-5) for that reason. However, this is not supported anywhere in scripture

                                                                                                                        Grateful acknowledgments to Anastasios Kioulachoglou (for part one) and Gary Amirault (for part two

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[Guest shiloh357]

This really nothing more than speculation on my part to be truthful, but I am not sure that the Apostles were expected by God to elect a replacement for Judas.  They cast lots and took it on themselves to interpret the outcome, but we don't see any divine confirmation that Mathias was ever intended by God to be included as an apostle.  That's probably why we don't see more written about him.

 

It is my personal conviction that Paul was God's choice to be an apostle. He may not have fit Peter's criteria, but he was every bit as much an apostle as Peter or any of them.   Rev. 21:14 tells us that the city of the New Jerusalem will have twelve foundations and each one will have the name of one of the twelve apostles.   Pretty confident Judas' name will not appear on any of them.  It doesn't appear to me that Mathias' name will appear either.    It is my conviction that Paul's name will be there with the other original 11 apostles on those foundations.  

[missmuffet]

Question: "Was Matthias or Paul God's choice to replace Judas as the 12th apostle?"

Answer:With Judas having betrayed Christ and then committing suicide, the 11 remaining disciples decided to replace Judas with a new 12th apostle (Acts 1:16-20). The requirements were that the man had to have been with them the entire time of Jesus’ ministry, and to have been a witness of the resurrection and ascension (Acts 1:21-22). The 11 disciples proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (possibly the same person as Barnabas), and Matthias (Acts 1:23). The 11 disciples then prayed for the Lord’s direction (Acts 1:24-25), and then cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias (Acts 1:26).

But, was this the Lord’s choice? Some propose that Paul, not Matthias, was God’s choice for the 12th apostle. They argue that Jesus had told the apostles to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8) and that casting lots is not how the disciples should have made the decision. They also point out that Matthias is never again mentioned in the New Testament, while Paul obviously became very prominent in the early Christian church. So, are they correct that Paul, not Matthias, was God’s choice to be Judas’ replacement as the 12th apostle?

The New Testament nowhere condones or condemns the way the apostles made the decision inActs 1. Casting lots was a biblically allowed method of making a decision (Proverbs 16:33). And, while Matthias is never again mentioned in the New Testament, the same can be said for most of the other 11 apostles. Church history records that Matthias died as a martyr for Christ, as did all of the other apostles, except John. Yes, Paul was definitely more prominent than Matthias, but Paul was more prominent than any of the 12 apostles, except for perhaps Peter and John. Also, Paul would not have been qualified based on the apostles’ criteria (Acts 1:21-22). So, a conclusive biblical case cannot be made for the 11 apostles’ choice of Matthias being invalid.

Further, God is sovereign. If it was not His sovereign will for Matthias to be chosen, Matthias would not have been chosen. It could be argued that, while it was God’s sovereign will (what He ordained) for Matthias to be chosen, it was God’s perfect will (what He desired) for the apostles to wait for Paul. But, this would be pure speculation, as, again, the Bible nowhere condemns Matthias being chosen for the 12th apostle.

So, what name will be written on the 12th foundation in the heavenly Jerusalem (Revelation 21:14)? The Bible does not explicitly say, but it likely will be Matthias. Ultimately, though, we will have to wait to find out.

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/Matthias-Judas-Paul.html#ixzz3SnFeb53E

[Ezra]

Matthias was, or course, chosen to replace Judas as the 12th Apostle, but then we don't hear anything else about him. My question is: Did Paul replace Matthias as the 12th Apostle? 

I may be in the minority here, but I believe that Paul did indeed replace Matthias as the 12th apostle, and when there are 12 apostles on 12 thrones ruling the 12 tribes of Israel (Mt 19:28), Paul will certainly be one of them.  The names of those 12 apostles as written on the 12 foundations of the wall of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:14).  They are specifically called "the twelve apostles of the Lamb".  Here's why Paul is included in the company of the other 11 apostles:

 

1. Paul was a "chosen vessel" of Christ, not only to preach to the Gentiles, but also to"the children of Israel", and to suffer greatly for Christ (Acts 9:15,16).  When God elects individuals for a specific ministry, He elects them from eternity past, e.g. Jeremiah (Jer 1:5) -- "BEFORE I formed thee in the belly I knew thee...".  Paul also declares that "...it pleased God, WHO SEPARATED ME FROM MY MOTHER'S WOMB, and called me by His grace, to reveal His Son in me..." (Gal 1:15,16).

 

2. Paul was "called an apostle, separated unto the Gospel of God" (Rom 1:1).  And this Gospel was promised "afore by His prophets in the Holy Scriptures" (Rom 1:2).  Since the Gospel was foreseen by God before the foundation of the world (1 Pet 1:20), it would be reasonable to conclude that Paul was separated unto the Gospel from eternity past.

 

3. Paul was commissioned directly by "Jesus Christ, and God the Father" (Gal 1:1). That speaks of two witnesses in Heaven to the apostleship of Paul.

 

4. The Gospel which Paul preached was received by direct Divine revelation, not second-hand ("by man") (Gal 1:11,12).

 

4. Paul was specifically commissioned to be the apostle to the Gentiles, just as Peter was to the Jews (Gal 2:7,8).

 

5. Paul was given the authority of an apostle, and did exercise it effectively (2 Cor 10:8 Cf 1 Cor 5:3-5).

 

6. Paul was given the "signs of an apostle", "for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles" (2 Cor 12:12,13).  These were the miracle-working spiritual gifts which authenticated his ministry, as they did for the other apostles (Heb 2:3,4).

 

7. Paul was taken up into the third heaven to see visions -- "the abundance of the revelations" --  which could not be disclosed to men (2 Cor 12:1-9).  Peter saw visions on earth which he did disclose (Acts 10:1-11:18).

 

8. Paul wrote over half the New Testament, and Peter recognized all his epistles as Scripture (2 Pet 3:15,16).  The impact of Paul on the Church equals or exceeds the impact of Moses on Israel.

 

9. Paul established more churches than any other apostle, and traveled and suffered more extensively than any other apostle (2 Cor 11:23-28).

 

10. It is to the apostle Paul that the majority of the "mysteries" of Scripture were revealed, including the "the mystery of the Church" and "the mystery of the Rapture" (see Paul's epistles).

[disciplehelovestoo]

my understanding is that the 'twelve' were assigned to minister the gospel to the israelites (to correspond to the twelve tribes of israel), while Paul was assigned to minister the gospel to the gentiles; so he was #13.  the Thayer definition for 'apostle' in Romans 1:1 is:

 

1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders

1a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ

1b) in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers

1b1) of Barnabas

1b2) of Timothy and Silvanus

 

so that makes at least 16 apostles.  anyone who has been or is called by God to be a messenger or 'teacher of the gospel' since would also be an apostle by this definition, although simply calling one's self an apostle does not make it so

 

strong's definition is:

 

From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.

 

so the presence of miracles in someone's ministry could be an indication that they are an apostle.

 

Joh 14:12 KJV

(12)  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

 

based on John 14:12, any reborn believer today can be an apostle

 

[Tinky]

 

 

based on John 14:12, any reborn believer today can be an apostle

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought one had to have personally seen the risen Lord to be an Apostle. 

[Ezra]

based on John 14:12, any reborn believer today can be an apostle

 

And based on Scripture there are only "twelve apostles of the Lamb" (Rev 21:14), and only 12 names inscribed on the 12 foundations of the wall of the New Jerusalem.  And the Lord was very precise -- 12 apostles, 12 thrones, 12 tribes of Israel (Mt 19:28).  We should not play fast and loose with Scripture.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Ezra