ayin jade Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,798 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Worship is not merely playing music and singing. It is an offering to the Lord. And that seems to have been forgotten by people today. Our attitude of worship is indeed an offering to the Lord. How can an unbeliever lead such an offering? He cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2015 When we allow unbelievers to lead in worship, we are placing them in a ministry role for which they are not suited. They cannot worship a Savior they have rejected. And when we put them in a role of ministry, we are telling them that they are okay just the way they are. The unintended effect is that sinners are made comfortible in their sin and see no reason to change. I agree unbelievers are not equipped by God to lead only the saints have been gifted by God and can filfill the leadership roles in church. When unbelievers are put into position of leadership they will only uplift or stir up the physical senses of the flesh and not of the Spirit. Because they do not have the Spirit of God living on the inside of them they simply do not belong to God. The saints know what and why they worship God, the unbelievers in the church have no clue whatsoever why or what they worship. They do not know God as a new creature in Christ they have not been seperated (santified) cleansed of sin and set apart for God's use in any capacity as they are yet in their sins unclean and unforgiven. It is the saints who have been equipped for the ministry. They see themselves as good people and just as deserving of heaven and their position in the church is a stamp of approval from God.... Religious unbelievers like that are the hardest people in the world to witness to because they think they're good. And there are a lot of religious unbelievers out there. They see no reason to change and their sinful lifestyle isn't any big deal. They interpret their involvement in the ministry of the church as a stamp of approval from God and they don't need the Gospel. Jude 1:19 - These be they who seperate themselves "sensual", having not the Spirit.... There are unbelievers in the church who seperate themselves unto God and yet they do not have the Spirit of God. They seperate themselves even believing in God and believe going to church is the right thing to do but yet they have never been born again they have not accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified they are still in their sins. They seperate themselves sensual and only come to church to appease or satisfy their own physical (fleshly) senses, in other words it makes them feel good to be religious. Sinners in the church should feel anything but physical comfort when they come instead the Spirit of God should bring conviction as the gospel of Christ is preached and the Spirit of God begins to move in our midst. There is no church out there where the unbeliever and believers are not a part of it. But the church the saints needs discernment to not let the flesh prevail and be stronger in their midst than the Spirit of the living God. In so doing lives will not be reconciled to and changed for God's glory. To say "no" to unbelievers is to love them because without Christ they will not be accepted of God in the end their own religion will not save the lost. The church must not give them a stamp of approval they need to see a difference and feel a difference between us taking place before them in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God. My primary concern with all this, as mentioned earlier, is that it is yet another indicator of the world seeping into the church, postmodern philosophical tenets of inclusion to a fault and an abject disregarding what the scripture speaks on issues such as this, basically falling back on a "well, the Lord works in mysterious ways" sort of argument. I would go beyond seeping to say "overtaking" if unbelievers are allowed to dominate over the saints in ministry which is the case in many of the churches today. Those who are not governed and ruled by Christ remain in their sin and do not have the Spirit of God therefore they are not able ministers of the Spirit of God. Discernment and order needs to be restored to the saints of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another_poster Posted March 20, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 129 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 20, 2015 But an unbeliever may walk the walk and talk the talk yet not have a heart for God or be truly born again ....an unbeliever may be in the worship team and God opens his ears and he turns his heart to God. Who of us attended church and may have been in the choir or played an instrument and was touched by the message or by a single phrase and turned our heart to accept Jesus. I dare say there are hypocrites sitting in the pews all pious yet are no judged as one of the unbelievers. Let them come let them hear and let them accept our Lord as their Saviour. We tend to be very judgemental when we should be welcoming the sinner even if he/she sings the main anthem during the service.. Do not turn them away you may be their hope of eternity and the last one Jesus is waiting for before He calls us home. I don't think the OP is talking about people who may think they are christians and attending church on a regular basis but rather people who claim to not believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted March 20, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted March 20, 2015 I guess I am tired....I messed up on that one..getting ready for the baby's funeral. I should pay more attention to what I read. I totally misunderstood . My apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted March 20, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,798 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 But an unbeliever may walk the walk and talk the talk yet not have a heart for God or be truly born again ....an unbeliever may be in the worship team and God opens his ears and he turns his heart to God. Who of us attended church and may have been in the choir or played an instrument and was touched by the message or by a single phrase and turned our heart to accept Jesus. I dare say there are hypocrites sitting in the pews all pious yet are no judged as one of the unbelievers. Let them come let them hear and let them accept our Lord as their Saviour. We tend to be very judgemental when we should be welcoming the sinner even if he/she sings the main anthem during the service.. Do not turn them away you may be their hope of eternity and the last one Jesus is waiting for before He calls us home. I don't think the OP is talking about people who may think they are christians and attending church on a regular basis but rather people who claim to not believe. Correct. Ones who openly state that they do not believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted March 21, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,798 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 There are enough replies now so I will add my thoughts, in case anyone hasnt guessed what they are by now. I feel that praise and worship of the Lord is a sacred thing. To be led by followers of the Lord, Christians, regenerate believers. Not to be defiled by unbelievers in any leadership role. I view anyone in the church band to be in leadership. As several mentioned, they are led by the Holy Spirit to guide the congregation in praise of our Lord. An unbeliever cannot do that. Im fine with an unbeliever in the audience, but not part of the leadership. it is offering strange fire as shiloh mentioned. Leviticus 10 1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, and put incense on it, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. 2 And there went out fire from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. Thank you all for your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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