ricky Posted March 25, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 508 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 216 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/09/1985 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Shiloh, in you earlier post you expressed a lot of what I was/am feeling about my soon to be former congregation, we sing a lot of Jesus Culture and Hill Song, while I personally am in favor of a mixture of modern worship songs and hymns, I find myself thinking "is this exalting God or is this just making me feel good". Often some songs we would repeat choruses literally for 15-20 minutes, while in a in a sense worship should be an emotional event some modern worship is designed to put you in emotional overdrive, I'm not really sure that is worship at all, but if gives us the feeling of worship, it also seems very feminine to me for some reason. Also I think there is a time for solemnity and even silent contemplation in a worship service (there's my Presbyterian roots showing lol) to reflect that we are not deserving of Grace and to mull over what we have been saved from. There should also be a time fore joyfully proclaiming our salvation. I also think that we are too quick to disregard traditional hymns as in my mind they connect us with the faith that has been passed down though the ages while in my eyes modern worship songs (there are some biblical ones) connect us to the church today. It just seems what passes for worship in church today is a mile wide and an inch deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I hear you ricky. Christianity Today did a poll a few years back and found that only about 1/3 of men in American congregation actively participate in worship. One reason they discovered is what you mention about how feminine the songs are. They have romantic overtones that men have a problem singing to another male figure. I have always had a problem with singing the same chorus of a few words for several minutes. It is more like hypnosis than actual worship. You are right about the shallowness of some of the modern worship. Compare: "When I survey the wondrous cross on which the prince of glory died; my greatest gain I count but loss and poor contempt on all my pride. See from his head, his hands his feet, sorrow and love flow mingled down. Did e'er such love and sorrow meet, or thorns produce so rich a crown?" with: I could sing of your love forever; I could sing of your love forever; I could sing of your love forever; I could sing of your love forever; I could sing of your love forever: I could sing of your love forever; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I never said that there was a biblical basis for suits and ties and pulpits. I also never said that God needed our worship. Perhaps Alex, you could respond to what was actually written. Worship is not about feeing energized. That's the problem. We want worship to be about us and about how we feel. Worship is not about us or energizing us. Worship is about God and honoring him. Making worship about how we feel only highlights the selfishness that pervades this generation of Christians. It is doing worship the way WE want and expecting God to accept what we offer. God and not man, determines how He is approached. Our problem is that we want to worship OUR way and God is not obligated to accept it. Just because we are thrilled with how we worship and just because we are energized by it, it doesn't mean God accepts it. It just means that we have made feelings our god, and we have idolized worship. you know what your post reminds me of? cain and abel. they both made offerings to the Lord. abel gave his first fruits (sheep) without reservation cain, well, i never really understood WHY his offering wasn't acceptable, i could only surmise. and what i surmised is that it was because he had done it his own way instead of God's way. whether it was because he offered produce instead of a blood sacrifice, whether he offered produce that was less than perfect, or whether he offered it with an attitude is all up for debate. but the bottom line is, God decides what is pleasing to Him, not us! cain's offering didn't please God. and some people's worship also does not please God. I also disagree with the purpose of worship. We don't worship God because He needs us to, but becaue we need to...worship is for us to focus on God. Why should people not finish a worship service feeling energized, what is more energizing than our Heavely Father? now Alex, i am not saying God hates up-beat worship music. and i'm not saying He is only pleased by hymns, either. but if you really believe that the purpose of worship is for US, you're only seeing half the picture. yes, worship is supposed to make us feel good. but we don't worship because of how we feel. we worship because GOD COMMANDS IT. He tells us to worship Him, and He expects us to obey. if worshiping Him makes us feel good, it had better be because we are being obedient to Him and He is happy, not because the tempo energizes us. i'm not one of those people who thinks God can't be glorified by certain types of music categorized as 'christian'. in fact, i believe that if the lyrics give God glory, the beat really doesn't matter... even if it makes me plug my ears. but i do believe there is a difference between christian music that tells of His love as a witness to others, and songs lifted up to Him in praise and adoration. if that didn't make sense, think of it this way. you have songs that tell a story about a woman, (i.e. stevie wonder's 'isn't she lovely') and songs that talk TO a woman (i.e. paul mccartney's 'maybe i'm amazed'). the best rock and roll love songs of all time are ballads. ya know why? because that's what melts a girl's heart. we should be mindful of the context of our worship music. there are times when celebratory, festive sounding songs are appropriate... like when david danced in the streets. but MOST of david's songs were contemplative. if you'll recall, david's street dance was so out of the ordinary that people stopped to stare and gawk. this was not the typical manner of worship. the bible says over and over that we are to worship Him in awe and reverence, and sacrificially. the bible also says repeatedly to sing praise, and since that command is usually followed by an exclamation point we can assume that can be expressing exuberance. maybe that's why the music portion of most churches i've ever been to call it "praise and worship music"... because it includes both. but if we are always exuberant and never solemn and reverent, then are we truly pleasing Him, since He demands both? worship is not about us. it's not about how we feel. we are commanded to praise Him even when we don't feel like it. worship is about obedience to Him, because He created us, and because we owe Him our praise. He doesn't owe us anything... not even a feel good enegizing experience. We owe Him everything. and that can't be expressed adequately in any one style of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted March 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.62 Reputation: 27,832 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2015 Blessings,,,, What I have found,I even hear it on this thread,,,,,,,,,many people consider "Worship" to be "an event" .,of sorts,or a "time"....."it is time to Worship the Lord"..........Worship is a lifestyle,even more than that,it is the Life of a Christian,,,,,,,,,,,,,we are a living sacrifice to our Lord because we have the Heart & Mind of Christ,when we crucify our flesh our lives are spent walking in Spirit & in Truth...........or at least it is what we pray the Holy Spirit enable us to do by His Power,His indwelling............ We were created to Worship our Father,,,,,,,,,,our relationship with Him is all about worshipping Him,in loving,adoring , glorifying,obeying,revering,praising,thanking Him............... Someone once told me that if there is anything that you have(or do,or,see,or hear) that you are not willing to let go of/give up then it owns you,,,,,that is "worship",,,,,,,,Shiloh hit the nail on the head,especially with the worship rituals of music in many churches.I know soooo many folks that will not leave their church or go to their church because the music is so good......they literally could care less about the reading of Gods Word because they just "FEEL" so good because of the music,,,,,,,,they do not even realize that it is really corporate praise and it is indeed great to praise & rejoice together but that is not a social event or a concert and how you 'feel" is pretty insignificant when the purpose of the gathering is to worship God by Hearing His Word ,receiving instruction ,strengthening aear I nd firmly establishing our faith There is a time & place for everything but "worship" is 24/7,,,,,,,,,,I think I can really speak from experience because I am a singer who was on the "Praise Team" for many years-lol I love to sing for the Lords Glory(to God) but I thank God He has placed in me a teachable spirit,no matter how old I get & how much I know(or think I know) I can always learn and I was not learning a thing at church, Last year I left my church to attend a church that is all about focusing on God,serving Him,learning,studying.The musicians sing to God and it took some getting used to for me because they are not all that "super"talented like I was used to,,,,,,I know that sounds awful but I don't mean it in a bad way,they do not tickle the ears,they convict the heart because they are filled with the Holy Spirit .......which I am sure sounds much better to God,as it reaches Gods ears it must sound like the greatest sound in the universe,,,,,,,,,Glory to God!!!! With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Summers Posted March 25, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 225 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/29/1984 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Kwilphilly, I think you are taking about two different uses of the same word. Yes, our worship should be on-going, but it is also a specific activity of actively worship our Lord. We are told to pray continuously, yet we also all have a time we set aside for the specific act of getting on our knees in prayer to our Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Blessings,,,, What I have found,I even hear it on this thread,,,,,,,,,many people consider "Worship" to be "an event" .,of sorts,or a "time"....."it is time to Worship the Lord"..........Worship is a lifestyle,even more than that,it is the Life of a Christian,,,,,,,,,,,,,we are a living sacrifice to our Lord because we have the Heart & Mind of Christ,when we crucify our flesh our lives are spent walking in Spirit & in Truth...........or at least it is what we pray the Holy Spirit enable us to do by His Power,His indwelling............ We were created to Worship our Father,,,,,,,,,,our relationship with Him is all about worshipping Him,in loving,adoring , glorifying,obeying,revering,praising,thanking Him............... Someone once told me that if there is anything that you have(or do,or,see,or hear) that you are not willing to let go of/give up then it owns you,,,,,that is "worship",,,,,,,,Shiloh hit the nail on the head,especially with the worship rituals of music in many churches.I know soooo many folks that will not leave their church or go to their church because the music is so good......they literally could care less about the reading of Gods Word because they just "FEEL" so good because of the music,,,,,,,,they do not even realize that it is really corporate praise and it is indeed great to praise & rejoice together but that is not a social event or a concert and how you 'feel" is pretty insignificant when the purpose of the gathering is to worship God by Hearing His Word ,receiving instruction ,strengthening aear I nd firmly establishing our faith There is a time & place for everything but "worship" is 24/7,,,,,,,,,,I think I can really speak from experience because I am a singer who was on the "Praise Team" for many years-lol I love to sing for the Lords Glory(to God) but I thank God He has placed in me a teachable spirit,no matter how old I get & how much I know(or think I know) I can always learn and I was not learning a thing at church, Last year I left my church to attend a church that is all about focusing on God,serving Him,learning,studying.The musicians sing to God and it took some getting used to for me because they are not all that "super"talented like I was used to,,,,,,I know that sounds awful but I don't mean it in a bad way,they do not tickle the ears,they convict the heart because they are filled with the Holy Spirit .......which I am sure sounds much better to God,as it reaches Gods ears it must sound like the greatest sound in the universe,,,,,,,,,Glory to God!!!! With love-in Christ,Kwik that is true, and i pointed that out earlier too. but i think for the purpose of this conversation people are talking about worship music as an event rather than total life worship. i'm glad you've found a new church where you can focus more on God! on a side note, there was a mega-church in vegas that i went to for a little while. not long... i really got nothing at all from being there, but my husband and daughter liked it. anyway, the music there was very much like a concert. i always got the impression the worship team thought they were auditioning for american idol. i could literally see nothing but self-promotion in their countenance. if there was worship of God, i couldn't see it. and to illustrate the point, the music played between services wasn't even christian music. now i do like me some lynyrd skynyrd, but i can't think of a single circumstance where tuesday's gone and freebird would be appropriate for a sunday morning at church... and yet that's exactly the kind of music that would be playing... along with other classics from eric clapton, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hey LadyC, I don't know if you caught in another thread, but we have a mega church in my hometown that was playing secular pop rock songs during worship. Not this last year, but a year ago last Halloween, they played "highway to hell" by ACDC during the services on the Sunday just prior to Halloween. Of course they have unbelievers who have a hand in picking out the music selections, which doesn't help matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted March 25, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 I agree with Shilo, I had mentioned the other day that these "concert" atmospheres create a false euphoric feeling. You shouldn't need a bunch of loud music and shiny lights to worship and feel the Holy Spirit. Go to any concert and you usually leave feeling awesome about it. But rarely does that carry over into the next day. And to the comment about the claims made by members of Jesus Culture, if anyone believes their claims about their relationship with God, (personal and audible) then they are just as lost as the ones making the claims. Wide is the gate, my friends, wide is the gate...... Proof I guess Im not familiar with Jesus culture. What are the claims they make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Jesus culture hails from Bethel Church in Redding CA. It started as a youth conference and then into a youth movement. Bethel Church is headed by Word of Faith false teacher, Bill Johnson. He is in league with false prophets like Todd Bentley, Chuck Pierce, Rick Joyner and the head of the New Apostolic Reformation, C. Peter Wagner. Jesus culture uses hypnotic worship, their worship leaders claim direct persona revelation from Jesus, not contained in the Bible and are promoters of the New Apostolic Reformation, which is a Charismatic "reformation" meant to inaugurate a global church. Here is a link to info on the NAR >>> http://www.apologeticsindex.org/2977-new-apostolic-reformation-overview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hey LadyC, I don't know if you caught in another thread, but we have a mega church in my hometown that was playing secular pop rock songs during worship. Not this last year, but a year ago last Halloween, they played "highway to hell" by ACDC during the services on the Sunday just prior to Halloween. Of course they have unbelievers who have a hand in picking out the music selections, which doesn't help matters. nope, hadn't caught that. really? DURING? not even before? man.... kinda makes the mega church in vegas that i was talking about seem pale in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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