Does the man of sin meet the requirements to be Islamic?

[Serving]

 

 

Hi Sister,

 

They (Israel & others) shall be cut down when he passes through.

 

He can not pass through Israel if he is already in Israel.

 

When he conquers Israel is when he becomes the wicked prince of Israel.

 

Notice Israel gets overturned the 3rd time?

 

This is the false prophet conquering Israel (passing through) like as Isaiah states when Israel's leaders are vexed just to hear the report of the attacking army after they are doublecrossed when God Himself causes the treaty to be disannulled.

 

He can not conquer Israel militarily if he is already the prince of Israel (he won't conquer himself) & he can not doublecross himself either.

 

But if he has Israeli heritage and rules over another land, it matters not, for he will still be counted as "one who is of thee" (Israel), he still has that blood .. he is just of the diaspora (living outside of Israel).

 

Please consider considering

 

Thanks Sister

 

Hi Serving

 

I think you misunderstood me.

I was actually backing up what you said that the Man of Sin (False Prophet) would be a Jew.

Yes he will dwell from outside of Israel in the North (North of Israel), as he is also called "The King of the North".  I see this as him coming from Europe.  A European Jew.

He will come in and take Israel.

I agree with you totally.  The Jews would not accept any other race as their Messiah.

 

 

Hi Sister,

 

My apologies for misunderstanding you, & yes .. the smoke coming from the north .. the king of the north .. another title God gives him ..  

 

God bless.

[Serving]

 

 

 

Hi Sister,

 

Nahum has great information, I like the "little prophets" a lot.

 

Nahum 1:1 The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.

 

The dialogue concerning Nineveh (Babylon the Great) continues unbroken up to and beyond :

 

Nahum 1:11 There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the Lord, a wicked counsellor.

 

He is of Babylon spiritually speaking ..

 

For:

 

Daniel 11:

 

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

 

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.

 

He returns to his own land before coming back the Israeli theatre (middle east) ..

 

Blessings.

 

Hi Serving

 

Yes, he's of Babylon of course, but when you read the next verse no. 12, a clue is given, very subtle indeed. Please consider these scriptures;

 

 Nahum 1:11   There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counsellor.

 Nahum 1:12   Thus saith the LORD; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through. Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more.

 

 

Now compare it to this verse;

 

Ezekiel 21:25   And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

Ezekiel 21:26   Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.

Ezekiel 21:27   I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

 

 

now put them together;

Nahum 1:11   There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counsellor.

Ezekiel 21:25   And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

 

please consider,.....

 

 

Hi Sister,

 

They (Israel & others) shall be cut down when he passes through.

 

He can not pass through Israel if he is already in Israel.

 

When he conquers Israel is when he becomes the wicked prince of Israel.

 

Notice Israel gets overturned the 3rd time?

 

This is the false prophet conquering Israel (passing through) like as Isaiah states when Israel's leaders are vexed just to hear the report of the attacking army after they are doublecrossed when God Himself causes the treaty to be disannulled.

 

He can not conquer Israel militarily if he is already the prince of Israel (he won't conquer himself) & he can not doublecross himself either.

 

But if he has Israeli heritage and rules over another land, it matters not, for he will still be counted as "one who is of thee" (Israel), he still has that blood .. he is just of the diaspora (living outside of Israel).

 

Please consider considering

 

Thanks Sister

 

 

 

A Kurdish Jew. Kurdistan is the northern Babylonian/Nineveh/Assyrian region.  Many Jews are from the Kurdish region and Israel and the Kurdish territories have been allies for decades. It looks to me that a new Israel/Kurdistan will arise and the 3 regions of Israel/Syria/Iraq will fall.   If a Kurdish Jew invades the ISIS territories from Israel, bringing peace to the Middle East and bringing Kurdistan to the Kurds and expanding Israel's territory to the Euphrates he will look just like a Messiah.  He will be a false Messiah. In this way he is both an Assyrian (Kurd) and a Jew.

 

 

Hi Argosy,

 

So Kurds are the Assyrians? I didn't know that, thank you.

 

About the title "The Assyrian" .. 99% of the time, Satan holds this title in scripture. In the scripture below, Egypt was the superpower of it's time, there was no way any human Assyrian leader could oppress them whilst in Egypt .. but Satan "the Assyrian". (Also, Assyria would have had no reason to bother the Hebrews back then .. none at all for the exodus hadn't even occurred yet)

 

Isaiah 52:4 For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.

 

Satan got this title from of old .. all linked to NImrod &  Babel (in the land of Assyria) .. that famous event is why Satan is called the Assyrian, because Satan was the true power / king over Nimrod whose mighty kingdom was in the land of Assyria.. it is a very old & significant title related to organised rebellion against God .. which is going to be repeated on a global scale once more .. in that respect, we see that the title "The Assyrian" is still very relevant today .. and this is why the false prophet also gets his title "the Assyrian" .. just like how Satan was also called the king of Tyrus .. just reverse this example for the false prophet and we get "The Assyrian" .. so it isn't necessarily a nationality based title for the human "Assyrian" .. it is a spiritual reason .. that he, the false prophet, orchestrating this modern organised rebellion (Babel II) against God  is of Satan. 

 

Thank you Argosy.

[Serving]

 

Hi William,

 

 

So when people use the term "man of sin [the son of perdition]," and then start talking about him as if he is the same person as "the Antichrist," or as the False Prophet, the Beast, Gog, and so on --  then all they do is sow confusion

 

No I'm just speaking of the false prophet being the man of sin / son of perdition to come (I'm aware Judas was called son of perdition too but I'm not speaking of the past, but of the near future)

 

Anyway, the below is speaking of the false prophet, here he is called both man of sin & son of perdition in the same verse :

 

 

2 Thessalonians

 

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

WHY do you believe the man of sin, the Son of Perdition, is the same person as the False Prophet? My point exactly: what 2 biblical witnesses support this conclusion? You haven't given us any.

 

I do not believe they are the same person.

 

2 Thes. 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

 

Now, Rev. 19 tells us that the False Prophet will not be destroyed until the battle of Armageddon, the very last act of the Satan's end time rebellion. But if Jesus comes for his Church before this time, "with power and great glory," Mt. 24:31, "with a shout/lit. voice of command," 1 Thes. 4:16, then THAT is when the Son of Perdition will be destroyed. Ergo, he cannot be the False Prophet.

 

Judas, the only other Son of Perdition, was destroyed shortly after the crucifixion, and quite possibly the resurrection, of Jesus. That is, early on in the process. The biblical evidence best suggests to me that the latter-day Son of Perdition will likewise be the one who starts the whole process of the last days, not the one who is there at the end of it. And the person who best fits that description is the final King of the North of Daniel 11:40-45, who

 

11:45 ...shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas at the glorious holy mountain [=the Temple Mount]; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him. 12:1 “At that time Michael shall stand up, ...And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time.

 

The last phrase is the Great Tribulation, which occurs right at the time of the demise of the one who sits in the Holy Place of God [2 Thes. 2:4, Mt. 24:15], the Temple Mount, quite likely on the site of the ancient Temple. Then he is soon after destroyed by the coming of Jesus. He cannot be the False Prophet.

 

 

William,

 

2 Thess is speaking of the coming world leader known as the false prophet. Chapter 2 gives us 12 verses of explanations and verse 3, as I supplied for you, calls him that man of sin & the son of perdition in the same breath .. and yet you still dispute it as though I had made it up & that I haven't supplied evidence for my explanation?

 

So the above scripture proved that accusation as wrong for those two titles pertaining to one man.

 

As for the third title, "the little horn"..

 

It was proved to you before that the little horn is the false prophet .. I was amongst a few others who supplied scriptural information and you just disappeared from the debate of which you were consistently involved until that information was provided? hmmm .. maybe you lost interest and didn't see it?

 

Nevertheless, I do see why you can not see it .. it is your belief in "pre trib rapture" .. this is why you can not see that wicked man for who he is in my opinion .. pre trib rapture doctrine really does undo the prophecies on this subject and divides one subject into two .. that is the problem I am discerning. 

 

Pre trib rapture was introduced by men as an interpretation much later on & never taught by the Lord .. so the burden of proof is not on us who do not accept that doctrine, but on those who do preach it. 

 

Thus debating this subject will go nowhere, the debate is really to do with pre trib rapture .. and when one holds that belief, it is very very hard to make them let go, because those who hold that belief dearly want it to be true because deep down in the recesses of their hearts, the thought of suffering for our Lord offends them .. and the answer is always the same .. "Why" they say, why would the Lord let the "church" suffer?

 

But, "Blessed is he who is not offended in Me".

 

And that is the core truth of this pre trib matter and I have heard it thousands of times .. not saying you do this, but I have witnessed many "pre tribbers" that do say it.

 

Thank you William.   

Edited April 3, 2015 by Serving

[ARGOSY]

 

 

Hi Sister,

 

They (Israel & others) shall be cut down when he passes through.

 

He can not pass through Israel if he is already in Israel.

 

When he conquers Israel is when he becomes the wicked prince of Israel.

 

Notice Israel gets overturned the 3rd time?

 

This is the false prophet conquering Israel (passing through) like as Isaiah states when Israel's leaders are vexed just to hear the report of the attacking army after they are doublecrossed when God Himself causes the treaty to be disannulled.

 

He can not conquer Israel militarily if he is already the prince of Israel (he won't conquer himself) & he can not doublecross himself either.

 

But if he has Israeli heritage and rules over another land, it matters not, for he will still be counted as "one who is of thee" (Israel), he still has that blood .. he is just of the diaspora (living outside of Israel).

 

Please consider considering

 

Thanks Sister

 

 

A Kurdish Jew. Kurdistan is the northern Babylonian/Nineveh/Assyrian region.  Many Jews are from the Kurdish region and Israel and the Kurdish territories have been allies for decades. It looks to me that a new Israel/Kurdistan will arise and the 3 regions of Israel/Syria/Iraq will fall.   If a Kurdish Jew invades the ISIS territories from Israel, bringing peace to the Middle East and bringing Kurdistan to the Kurds and expanding Israel's territory to the Euphrates he will look just like a Messiah.  He will be a false Messiah. In this way he is both an Assyrian (Kurd) and a Jew.

 

 

 

Hi Argosy,

 

So Kurds are the Assyrians? I didn't know that, thank you.

 

About the title "The Assyrian" .. 99% of the time, Satan holds this title in scripture. In the scripture below, Egypt was the superpower of it's time, there was no way any human Assyrian leader could oppress them whilst in Egypt .. but Satan "the Assyrian". (Also, Assyria would have had no reason to bother the Hebrews back then .. none at all for the exodus hadn't even occurred yet)

 

Isaiah 52:4 For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.

 

Satan got this title from of old .. all linked to NImrod &  Babel (in the land of Assyria) .. that famous event is why Satan is called the Assyrian, because Satan was the true power / king over Nimrod whose mighty kingdom was in the land of Assyria.. it is a very old & significant title related to organised rebellion against God .. which is going to be repeated on a global scale once more .. in that respect, we see that the title "The Assyrian" is still very relevant today .. and this is why the false prophet also gets his title "the Assyrian" .. just like how Satan was also called the king of Tyrus .. just reverse this example for the false prophet and we get "The Assyrian" .. so it isn't necessarily a nationality based title for the human "Assyrian" .. it is a spiritual reason .. that he, the false prophet, orchestrating this modern organised rebellion (Babel II) against God  is of Satan. 

 

Thank you Argosy.

 

  Thanks Serving, but I feel your argument is far from conclusive because the NIV bible interprets that same verse in a far more literal manner that does fit in with history:   Isaiah 52:4New International Version (NIV)

4 For this is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“At first my people went down to Egypt to live;

    lately, Assyria has oppressed them.

 

This is exactly what happened in history, the first major power involved with oppressing Israel was Egypt, the next one was Assyria.

[wingnut-]

 

Hi wingnut,

 

I agree that there seems to be "something" there generating smoke.

 

I think the beast from the sea (or abyss per Rev 17) is a fallen angel because the abyss is described as a holding place or prison of evil spirit beings per Luke 8:31 and Rev 20:3.  I agree that given his description, compared to the Daniel 7 description of beasts, is striking.  We also know from Daniel 10 that fallen angels or "princes" are associated with these kingdoms.  It's worth mentioning that in Daniel 7 that there is no mention of seven heads.  The reason for that I believe is because they symbolically reference Satan's power, throne, and great authority....which he gave to this beast.  I think this is also indicated in where the crowns are located, i.e. Satan's are on his heads and the beasts are on his horns.  While there is a definite association between fallen angel "princes" and the nations they influence, I think the beast from the sea (abyss) is more a reference to that prince (or those princes) than the resulting geopolitical entities they spawn.  That's why I see the beast as a fallen angel.

 

Do you think it's possible that Judas, like Pharaoh, might have been made for a specific purpose per Romans 9?  I've been considering that as well.

 

 

 

Hello lastdaze,

 

Thanks for taking the time to clarify your thoughts on this, I understand what you are saying.  I am still chewing all this over.  As far as Judas having a purpose, I would say that he clearly did have a specific purpose already.  The question is whether or not his purpose extends to future events as well, and at this point I am inclined to say that it is possible.

[Serving]

 

 

 

Hi Sister,

 

They (Israel & others) shall be cut down when he passes through.

 

He can not pass through Israel if he is already in Israel.

 

When he conquers Israel is when he becomes the wicked prince of Israel.

 

Notice Israel gets overturned the 3rd time?

 

This is the false prophet conquering Israel (passing through) like as Isaiah states when Israel's leaders are vexed just to hear the report of the attacking army after they are doublecrossed when God Himself causes the treaty to be disannulled.

 

He can not conquer Israel militarily if he is already the prince of Israel (he won't conquer himself) & he can not doublecross himself either.

 

But if he has Israeli heritage and rules over another land, it matters not, for he will still be counted as "one who is of thee" (Israel), he still has that blood .. he is just of the diaspora (living outside of Israel).

 

Please consider considering

 

Thanks Sister

 

 

A Kurdish Jew. Kurdistan is the northern Babylonian/Nineveh/Assyrian region.  Many Jews are from the Kurdish region and Israel and the Kurdish territories have been allies for decades. It looks to me that a new Israel/Kurdistan will arise and the 3 regions of Israel/Syria/Iraq will fall.   If a Kurdish Jew invades the ISIS territories from Israel, bringing peace to the Middle East and bringing Kurdistan to the Kurds and expanding Israel's territory to the Euphrates he will look just like a Messiah.  He will be a false Messiah. In this way he is both an Assyrian (Kurd) and a Jew.

 

 

 

Hi Argosy,

 

So Kurds are the Assyrians? I didn't know that, thank you.

 

About the title "The Assyrian" .. 99% of the time, Satan holds this title in scripture. In the scripture below, Egypt was the superpower of it's time, there was no way any human Assyrian leader could oppress them whilst in Egypt .. but Satan "the Assyrian". (Also, Assyria would have had no reason to bother the Hebrews back then .. none at all for the exodus hadn't even occurred yet)

 

Isaiah 52:4 For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.

 

Satan got this title from of old .. all linked to NImrod &  Babel (in the land of Assyria) .. that famous event is why Satan is called the Assyrian, because Satan was the true power / king over Nimrod whose mighty kingdom was in the land of Assyria.. it is a very old & significant title related to organised rebellion against God .. which is going to be repeated on a global scale once more .. in that respect, we see that the title "The Assyrian" is still very relevant today .. and this is why the false prophet also gets his title "the Assyrian" .. just like how Satan was also called the king of Tyrus .. just reverse this example for the false prophet and we get "The Assyrian" .. so it isn't necessarily a nationality based title for the human "Assyrian" .. it is a spiritual reason .. that he, the false prophet, orchestrating this modern organised rebellion (Babel II) against God  is of Satan. 

 

Thank you Argosy.

 

  Thanks Serving, but I feel your argument is far from conclusive because the NIV bible interprets that same verse in a far more literal manner that does fit in with history:   Isaiah 52:4New International Version (NIV)

4 For this is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“At first my people went down to Egypt to live;

    lately, Assyria has oppressed them.

 

This is exactly what happened in history, the first major power involved with oppressing Israel was Egypt, the next one was Assyria.

 

Hi Argosy,

 

It is strange that the interpreter chose the word "lately" over "and" .. that is a big difference which points to self interpretation .. unfortunately, as is the case with all these Alexandrian text based manuscripts, we would be wrong in thinking it is a translation of the KJV because they are not .. the Alexandrian line is not the same mss as the KJV line .. (two Catholic spiritualists / occultists started all these Alexandrian based bibles, yet Christians still don't grasp the seriousness of that truth and just ignore it for some reason)

 

So my bible source, the KJV, is not incorrectly rendered .. it is simply the common or majority manuscripts found all around the world and agree .. where the KJV bible comes from .. the Alexandrian line of the NIV etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc  is a different line .. not present throughout the majority of time since Christ (90% of Christian history) until "recently" in these last days .. thus we can not compare one as being incorrectly translated because they are not the same.

 

You see, God caused Assyria to attack Israel for their wickedness .. it was their punishment .. there was our cause .. so this cancels out the NIV translation mistake. 

 

But God said the Assyrian oppressed them without cause. So now because of these men, we have a contradiction, but the contradiction is found in them that altered Gods word, not in the written word itself. 

 

Having said that, perhaps instead take note of the reason I gave as to why God calls Satan the Assyrian in the first place .. it certainly makes sense (without having to debate the translation debate which never ends)

 

Thanks Argosy.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Serving

[Serving]

Excuse me William, 

 

 

WHY do you believe the man of sin, the Son of Perdition, is the same person as the False Prophet? My point exactly: what 2 biblical witnesses support this conclusion? You haven't given us any.

 

I do not believe they are the same person.

 

2 Thes. 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

 

Now, Rev. 19 tells us that the False Prophet will not be destroyed until the battle of Armageddon, the very last act of the Satan's end time rebellion. But if Jesus comes for his Church before this time, "with power and great glory," Mt. 24:31, "with a shout/lit. voice of command," 1 Thes. 4:16, then THAT is when the Son of Perdition will be destroyed. Ergo, he cannot be the False Prophet.

 

You do know that there is only one 2nd coming right?

 

2 Thes. 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

 

His coming is the 2nd coming friend.

 

The warring & the resurrection all happen on the same day .. and it needs to be noted that it is only when Christ comes that the false prophet will be revealed ..  revealed for who he is to those who believed him / worshipped him .. revealed to the deceived world that followed him.

 

And that event only happens when Christ returns .. That is what the "lawless one will be revealed" part is speaking about .. Its all the same event .. the 2nd coming

 

Are you under the impression that this revealing is something to do with the false prophet being revealed to the "church" to save them from being deceived by him or persecuted by him? 

 

But if the "church" is whisked away from facing him .. then how will their dirty robes be purified?

 

Don't you see?

 

This so called pre trib rapture even takes away the "church's" pre ordained  purifying by fire .. in the process condemning of millions of last day Christians to never being able to clean their robes before the coming. 

 

See how pre trib rapture has now contradicted the purifying process (through tribulation) of the last day saints?

 

How it has in the process made two 2nd comings? the so called coming for the "church" adds up to His 2nd coming which now makes the actual 2nd coming itself the 3rd coming!! 

 

No, they are very wrong.

 

The false prophet is the son of perdition / man of sin / last day king of the north / Assyrian all rolled into one.

 

Thanks William.

 

 

 

 

 

[ARGOSY]

Hi Argosy,

 

It is strange that the interpreter chose the word "lately" over "and" .. that is a big difference which points to self interpretation .. unfortunately, as is the case with all these Alexandrian text based manuscripts, we would be wrong in thinking it is a translation of the KJV because they are not .. the Alexandrian line is not the same mss as the KJV line .. (two Catholic spiritualists / occultists started all these Alexandrian based bibles, yet Christians still don't grasp the seriousness of that truth and just ignore it for some reason)

 

So my bible source, the KJV, is not incorrectly rendered .. it is simply the common or majority manuscripts found all around the world and agree .. where the KJV bible comes from .. the Alexandrian line of the NIV etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc  is a different line .. not present throughout the majority of time since Christ (90% of Christian history) until "recently" in these last days .. thus we can not compare one as being incorrectly translated because they are not the same.

 

You see, God caused Assyria to attack Israel for their wickedness .. it was their punishment .. there was our cause .. so this cancels out the NIV translation mistake. 

 

But God said the Assyrian oppressed them without cause. So now because of these men, we have a contradiction, but the contradiction is found in them that altered Gods word, not in the written word itself. 

 

Having said that, perhaps instead take note of the reason I gave as to why God calls Satan the Assyrian in the first place .. it certainly makes sense (without having to debate the translation debate which never ends)

 

Thanks Argosy.

 

To somehow use the following verse to prove beyond doubt that the "Assyrian CAN ONLY mean "Satan" and not the "Assyrian" is stretching the logic, no matter what translation used:

 

Isaiah 52:4 For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause

 

Firstly they sojourned in Egypt, and then the Assyrian oppressed them. Hebrew's use of conjunctions is different to English usage, the conjunction is a prefix added to the word, and this prefix has a more generalised meaning than just "and".  See the following theory to see how Hebrew is under debate, and a widely used interpretation method will see the vav as not merely joining the two words (and) but joining them in a consecutive manner (and then).  So what you are confidently claiming has no such consensus among ancient Hebrew interpreters:

 

https://ancienthebrewgrammar.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/recvavcons.pdf

The vav-relative theory is a slightly older contemporary of the vav-consecutive theory. However, the vav-relative theory has shifted over the course of the past two centuries. The earliest view was set consciously over and against the vav-conversive theory. Schroeder (1824: 239–40; 1st ed. 1766) argued that the vav “relativized” the temporal meaning of the verb to the preceding verbal idea. He labeled the vav-relative with the Imperfect conjugation the “Relative Future,” which relates events in narrative as future relative to a leading Perfect form that anchors the narrative in the Past.

 

The NIV therefore reflects this "time relative" idea of the vav prefix which joins the Egyptian sojourn to the Assyrian oppression. It is not inaccurate from a pure Hebrew perspective, no matter who did the translation. You are possibly stuck on your view, but some believe that the antichrist is variously described as the Assyrian, or a false Messiah (Matthew 24: Messiah is a Jewish conqueror), and also the "king of the North" (A Seleucid King) as per Daniel 11. Current demographics reveal this strong overlap of literally hundreds of thousands of Jews also  from a Kurdish background. Politically  the earlier rise of Israel as well as the new rise of Kurdistan,  and the disintegration of all of their more aggressive neighbours has left only the weak ISIS to contend with. A Kurdish (Seleucid/Assyrian) Jew could be a uniting/joining factor of a new political megastate as friendly neighbour to Turkey. With the new peace with Iran we are seeing a new era of peace to arise.

[Serving]

 

Hi Argosy,

 

It is strange that the interpreter chose the word "lately" over "and" .. that is a big difference which points to self interpretation .. unfortunately, as is the case with all these Alexandrian text based manuscripts, we would be wrong in thinking it is a translation of the KJV because they are not .. the Alexandrian line is not the same mss as the KJV line .. (two Catholic spiritualists / occultists started all these Alexandrian based bibles, yet Christians still don't grasp the seriousness of that truth and just ignore it for some reason)

 

So my bible source, the KJV, is not incorrectly rendered .. it is simply the common or majority manuscripts found all around the world and agree .. where the KJV bible comes from .. the Alexandrian line of the NIV etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc  is a different line .. not present throughout the majority of time since Christ (90% of Christian history) until "recently" in these last days .. thus we can not compare one as being incorrectly translated because they are not the same.

 

You see, God caused Assyria to attack Israel for their wickedness .. it was their punishment .. there was our cause .. so this cancels out the NIV translation mistake. 

 

But God said the Assyrian oppressed them without cause. So now because of these men, we have a contradiction, but the contradiction is found in them that altered Gods word, not in the written word itself. 

 

Having said that, perhaps instead take note of the reason I gave as to why God calls Satan the Assyrian in the first place .. it certainly makes sense (without having to debate the translation debate which never ends)

 

Thanks Argosy.

 

To somehow use the following verse to prove beyond doubt that the "Assyrian CAN ONLY mean "Satan" and not the "Assyrian" is stretching the logic, no matter what translation used:

 

Isaiah 52:4 For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause

 

Firstly they sojourned in Egypt, and then the Assyrian oppressed them. Hebrew's use of conjunctions is different to English usage, the conjunction is a prefix added to the word, and this prefix has a more generalised meaning than just "and".  See the following theory to see how Hebrew is under debate, and a widely used interpretation method will see the vav as not merely joining the two words (and) but joining them in a consecutive manner (and then).  So what you are confidently claiming has no such consensus among ancient Hebrew interpreters:

 

https://ancienthebrewgrammar.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/recvavcons.pdf

The vav-relative theory is a slightly older contemporary of the vav-consecutive theory. However, the vav-relative theory has shifted over the course of the past two centuries. The earliest view was set consciously over and against the vav-conversive theory. Schroeder (1824: 239–40; 1st ed. 1766) argued that the vav “relativized” the temporal meaning of the verb to the preceding verbal idea. He labeled the vav-relative with the Imperfect conjugation the “Relative Future,” which relates events in narrative as future relative to a leading Perfect form that anchors the narrative in the Past.

 

The NIV therefore reflects this "time relative" idea of the vav prefix which joins the Egyptian sojourn to the Assyrian oppression. It is not inaccurate from a pure Hebrew perspective, no matter who did the translation. You are possibly stuck on your view, but some believe that the antichrist is variously described as the Assyrian, or a false Messiah (Matthew 24: Messiah is a Jewish conqueror), and also the "king of the North" (A Seleucid King) as per Daniel 11. Current demographics reveal this strong overlap of literally hundreds of thousands of Jews also  from a Kurdish background. Politically  the earlier rise of Israel as well as the new rise of Kurdistan,  and the disintegration of all of their more aggressive neighbours has left only the weak ISIS to contend with. A Kurdish (Seleucid/Assyrian) Jew could be a uniting/joining factor of a new political megastate as friendly neighbour to Turkey. With the new peace with Iran we are seeing a new era of peace to arise.

 

 

Hi Argosy,

 

Lets step away from the translation thing for a minute and work it out with scripture.

 

Firstly .. God said the Assyrian oppressed Israel "without cause" when aforetime they "sojourned" in Egypt.

 

We have detailed narrative on Israel sojourning in Egypt before exodus & the only oppression Israel endured was meted out by the Pharaoh whose heart God hardened .. that's it .. no other oppression except from Pharaoh .. so no Assyrian here.

 

Then came the exodus & after the 40 years in the wilderness, God started leading the Hebrews into the promised land.

 

Now, besides all their warring & troubles since settling the promised land .. tell me .. when did "My people" (Israel) sojourn (dwell) in Egypt as a people (collective Israel) .. before .. (note : important) .. before  Assyria took them (10 tribes only) into captivity?

 

You see?

 

There is no other instance before Assyria's actual attack that Israel "as a people" dwelt (sojourned) in Egypt to be oppressed by Assyria / the Assyrian.

 

So something else is being conveyed by God than plain human history .. this is spiritual history in a mystery that is being revealed.

 

Have a think on it Argosy ..

 

Blessings.

[Sister]

 

Hi Argosy

 

I have to agree with Serving, and also know that when "The Assyrian" is mentioned, it is speaking of Satan.

 

Please lets take a look at these scriptures, this is all prophecy and little clues hidden.

 

 Isaiah 10:1   Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;
 Isaiah 10:2   To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!
 Isaiah 10:3   And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?
 Isaiah 10:4   Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
 Isaiah 10:5   O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.  (God is addressing the oppressor now)

  Isaiah 10:6   I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. (Still speaking of this same "Assyrian all the way down)

  Isaiah 10:7   Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
  Isaiah 10:8   For he saith, Are not my princes altogether kings?  (Satan speaking)

  Isaiah 10:9   Is not Calno as Carchemish? is not Hamath as Arpad? is not Samaria as Damascus? (They are all of Satan's kingdom, and he has given them their idols to worship)

  Isaiah 10:10   As my hand hath found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria; (Satan himself introduced the idols and false gods, he's proud of it)

  Isaiah 10:11   Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols? (Satan speaking, he does the same to Jerusalem right till the end)

  Isaiah 10:12   Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks. (This is speaking of the end times brother, it's speaking of Satan when he will be punished at the coming)

 

saiah 10:13   For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man: (Satan speaking proudly of himself, ...this Assyrian is none other than Satan himself)

  Isaiah 10:14   And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped. (Nobody stopped Satan, he will be given free reign until his end, he thinks he's got away with it.)

 

 

 Isaiah 10:15   Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood. (God speaking, he is the one holding the axe, the axe is Satan who thinks it is all by his own power, but God created him, and gave him that power and free reign)

 Isaiah 10:16   Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire. (Satan's fat ones are the leaders he has fed and fed with his poison, the high ones in power.  Their fat will be burn't of them, and they will be left with nothing but leanness, ...empty, starving...spiritually speaking)

  Isaiah 10:17   And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;

  Isaiah 10:18   And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth. (Satan's forest is this wilderness, Babylon the great, his kingdom...it's fruitful, but full of bad fruit)

 

The Assyrian is Satan dear brother, and I agree with Serving. It's just another name for him in code.  We can only decode it when reading it in context.

Many new bible translations have hidden this, and changed "The Assyrian" to "the Assyrians", which changes the whole meaning.  It's not plural, but only speaking of one.  The one responsible for corrupting all men from start to finish.

 

See also Isaiah 14:25, referring to this same "Assyrian", and maybe you can see it clear as day.