Tithing & giving: The letter and the Spirit of the law? Thoughts?

[Guest shiloh357]

The false teaching of "sowing and reaping"  in connection to financial giving has been a real problem for the church and a corrupting force among TV preachers

 

If you belong to a local church your tithing and financial giving should go there first and foremost and really do some research on ministries and see where the money goes.

 

Creflo Dollar really exposed the problem when he was asking for 200 thousand people to donate $300 apiece so he could have a brand new, state of the art private plane for "ministry."    yeah, right.

 

In the Bible the word of God is seed.   Money is never "seed"  in Scrpture

[Ezra]

 

Creflo Dollar really exposed the problem when he was asking for 200 thousand people to donate $300 apiece so he could have a brand new, state of the art private plane for "ministry."   

The name *Creflo Dollar* should be enough of a red flag.  It means the creepy flow of dollars out of your pocket and into his.

[Guest Fish Catcher Jim]

Actually, the Bible doesn't tell us what ever happened to the widow who gave her mites.   It doesn't say how God moved on her behalf.     It also does not say that the widow of Zarrapeth never knew lack again simply because she fed the prophet.   In fact, all it says that every day there was just  little oil and the same little handful of flour for duration of time that Elijah was there.   So any claim that the widow was suddenly prosperous is not biblical.

 

There is no promise to the church about a financial blessing attached to financial giving.

One more thing then Shiloh, when it talks about give and it shall be given back unto you. This must be for anything but finances huh?

Explain what reaping 30 fold and 70 fold and 100 fold is for then ? Like I have told you before I take what the word of God says and that is it. If God says if you will do this then you will see these results........It is settled my friend. Anything beyond this is just another one of mans views of things.

Blessings

Jim.....

[GoldenEagle]

 

God wants gifts from a " cheerful giver" if one has to tithe grudgingly or tithe and let the family go without food ...this cannot be pleasing to the Father.

This would also depend on how much faith a person has towards God and tithing. When we give out of Love and Trust in God and His word and know that we know He will bless us back then we tithe even if it looks like we wont eat for God can do more through your tithe then we could through spending the money on food.

When we give because we feel forced to or to make a show of it or because we feel we have to do this or God will get us then our tithes will not produce the fruits in return that we had wanted.

The story of the widow woman and her few mites is an example of the first in which had total trust and faith in God and you know God moved on her behalf quickly. Speaking of which how about the woman and her son who BELIEVED their man of God Elijah and prepared the last of thier food for the prophet or man of God....What happened ? She never knew lack again....

Tithing and giving can be placed right up there with some reaped 30 fold and some reaped 60 fold and some reaped 100 fold.
How much Faith and trust do you have in God and His written word........think of it like this.....those who reaped 30 fold had about 30 fold faith and 70 fold doubt and unbelief......People tend to believe that their own faith is strong but continue to speak words of doubt and unbelief and fear and so forth. This works against your faith.

It is said through out His written word out of the abundance of the heart the mouth does speak and issues of life flow through our mouths. I said this because His word also teaches us we need to keep seed and the tithe watered or moistend and in good ground. Most people tend to think the ground is only about where you planted the tithe or seed but your heart and words matter much.

In short.........ones tithe can bring blessings or nothing or very little depending on the heart and faith of the one who Gives it. God said He would rebuke the devourer for our sake but if the tithe is not given correctly or out of a true heart then yea buy your food instead but for me and my house................We can simply NOT afford to NOT tithe. Every single penny that comes into our home gets tithed on.

Blessings
jim

 

I'd be interested in looking at the passages you reference together Jim.

First there's what is commonly referred to as "The Widow's Mite". Where is the evidence that God moved on her behalf quickly as you state in red? All we know is that her gift pleased God right?

Mark 12:41-44
41 And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. 43 And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. 44 For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”

Luke 21:1-4
Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, 2 and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. 3 And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. 4 For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Shiloh if we could please debate the subject and not the person that would be great. I would like to keep the dialogue going, reading Scripture together, and would like for this thread not to be shut down. 

Thanks brother!

God bless,

GE

Edited April 20, 2015 by Hippie333
removed quote but request is needed for Shiloh

[GoldenEagle]

 

Actually, the Bible doesn't tell us what ever happened to the widow who gave her mites.   It doesn't say how God moved on her behalf.     It also does not say that the widow of Zarrapeth never knew lack again simply because she fed the prophet.   In fact, all it says that every day there was just  little oil and the same little handful of flour for duration of time that Elijah was there.   So any claim that the widow was suddenly prosperous is not biblical.

 

There is no promise to the church about a financial blessing attached to financial giving.

One more thing then Shiloh, when it talks about give and it shall be given back unto you. This must be for anything but finances huh?

Explain what reaping 30 fold and 70 fold and 100 fold is for then ? Like I have told you before I take what the word of God says and that is it. If God says if you will do this then you will see these results........It is settled my friend. Anything beyond this is just another one of mans views of things.

Blessings

Jim.....

 

 

Nothing is really settled. At least not in my mind. All Scripture is open to interpretation and must interpreted within the context of the rest of Scripture. Whatever doctrine we have must agree with other passages of Scripture. Wouldn't you agree Jim?

Also, please lets debate the subject and not the person. I don't want this thread closed.

God bless,

GE

[Guest Fish Catcher Jim]

Well Jim, at least my views are based on Scripture and not the false teachers and heretics like   Kenneth Copleand, Kenneth Hagin, Joyce Meyer  and other snake oil salesmen who fleece the flock and exploit the poor and sick just so these teachers can live in opulence and luxury while their followers live in poverty.

Brother you should be ashamed of your self speaking out like this against Gods servants and claiming such things. If you do not agree with some of His servants then pray for them but to bad mouth them is nothing more then disobedience. Speaking hear say and false accusations against any of Gods servants is something none of us is ever to do.

I do forgive you for your slander and will not hold any aught against you and pray that now your true heart is shown you will be seeking God in this matter and operating as His wrod says...

Blessings Shiloh

Jim

[Guest shiloh357]

Sorry Jim, but you are not really taking God at His word.   You are reading the Bible through lens of Word of Faith preachers.  

 

The  verse you cited about giving and it shall be given unto you is Luke 6:38 and it is part of Luke's account of the Sermon the plain.   The context is about judgment, if you read the prior verse.  He is in  a line of thought about forgiveness.   He is not talking about money at all.   You need to pay attention to context and not just rip the words out of their immediate context.

 

The 30, 60 and 100 fold in Mark 8  is about the fruit produced by the seed of Scripture. 

 

Again, neither of those passages is about Money

[Guest Fish Catcher Jim]

God wants gifts from a " cheerful giver" if one has to tithe grudgingly or tithe and let the family go without food ...this cannot be pleasing to the Father.

This would also depend on how much faith a person has towards God and tithing. When we give out of Love and Trust in God and His word and know that we know He will bless us back then we tithe even if it looks like we wont eat for God can do more through your tithe then we could through spending the money on food.

When we give because we feel forced to or to make a show of it or because we feel we have to do this or God will get us then our tithes will not produce the fruits in return that we had wanted.The story of the widow woman and her few mites is an example of the first in which had total trust and faith in God and you know God moved on her behalf quickly. Speaking of which how about the woman and her son who BELIEVED their man of God Elijah and prepared the last of thier food for the prophet or man of God....What happened ? She never knew lack again....

Tithing and giving can be placed right up there with some reaped 30 fold and some reaped 60 fold and some reaped 100 fold.

How much Faith and trust do you have in God and His written word........think of it like this.....those who reaped 30 fold had about 30 fold faith and 70 fold doubt and unbelief......People tend to believe that their own faith is strong but continue to speak words of doubt and unbelief and fear and so forth. This works against your faith.

It is said through out His written word out of the abundance of the heart the mouth does speak and issues of life flow through our mouths. I said this because His word also teaches us we need to keep seed and the tithe watered or moistend and in good ground. Most people tend to think the ground is only about where you planted the tithe or seed but your heart and words matter much.

In short.........ones tithe can bring blessings or nothing or very little depending on the heart and faith of the one who Gives it. God said He would rebuke the devourer for our sake but if the tithe is not given correctly or out of a true heart then yea buy your food instead but for me and my house................We can simply NOT afford to NOT tithe. Every single penny that comes into our home gets tithed on.

Blessings

jim

I'd be interested in looking at the passages you reference together Jim.

First there's what is commonly referred to as "The Widow's Mite". Where is the evidence that God moved on her behalf quickly as you state in red? All we know is that her gift pleased God right?Mark 12:41-4441 And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. 43 And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. 44 For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”Luke 21:1-4Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, 2 and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. 3 And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. 4 For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

 

God bless,

GE

Ok if the gift pleased God...............God made a point to speak to us how this womans offering was far greater then the big amount the rich man gave because she gave out of what ??? He gave out of what ??? Do you think God is trying to show us something here.

[Guest Fish Catcher Jim]

Sorry Jim, but you are not really taking God at His word.   You are reading the Bible through lens of Word of Faith preachers.   and they are poor students of God's word.

 

The  verse you cited about giving and it shall be given unto you is Luke 6:38 and it is part of Luke's account of the Sermon the plain.   The context is about judgment, if you read the prior verse.  He is in  a line of thought about forgiveness.   He is not talking about money.

 

The 30, 60 and 100 fold is about the fruit produced by the seed of Scripture.  Neither is about money.

Where do you get judgement and money together ? I do not study the written word of God through any ones eyes.

Have a nice day