Openly Curious Posted June 30, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2015 The inward man all smiles within me... and whispers to me 'they are looking in the wrong place'John 7:2424 Judge not according to the "appearance", but judge righteous judgment.KJV Love, StevenYou are making in your application of this scripture to this particular thread out to mean that the scripture in which you quoted above is only referring to a way a person dressesand looks on the outside. By doing so you thus "twist" the true meaning of the scripture you quoted to fit your personal belief. I think this is wrong.My friend the discipline of not adding to or take away from written material is a difficult one to say the least... As I have underscoredyour above statement please show me where I have said this_?_ The scripture above that you used obviously in it's proper context is talking of "appearances of any kind". And "NOT" singular as being only in clothing or how a person looks outwardly in appearance which is the context you placed the scripture in.Here you validate the very instance of my post... certainly long hair and tattoos would be one of this any kind! I have justification inScripture to use this Scripture as I have ->1 Sam 16:77 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or onthe height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lordseeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance,but the Lord looketh on the heart.KJV But things of any kind may look and appear one way on the surface but in truth it may be an entirely a whole different thing that happened than what we thought we saw in appearance so we shouldn't judge in that kind of manner. Sometimes we don't have all the facts about something we see in appearance so we should reserve our judgmentuntil we do get all the facts so we can then properly assess and judge justly instead of on assumptions and false preceptions of what we thing is true on the surface.a continued validation of my post... For example I may see a person I know in the grocery store from a distance from another aisle I'm on. But then I notice a gun and it looks like she is the one holding it up and it looks like from where I am standing she is robbing at gunpoint the cashier at the checkout register. But what I didn't she was it was really the person behind of her in the line in which was holding the gun and robbing the the chechout counter cashier but I automatically assumed it was the person I knew. The appearance was the person I knew was the one doing the robbing at gun point but from where I was standing and certain grocery items set out in the store was front of the person behind of the person I knew and blocked from me what was really going on. The true facts from what I thought I was seeing from where I was standing were false. But we shouldn't jump quickly to make judgments of any kind because we may not have nor be able to see and have all the true facts when we see things going on in appearances.I believe you have wrongly misused and misappropriated this scripture in a wrong manner concerning receiving a long hair and tattooed pastor spoken of within this threadSo after validation of my post you use a different kind of outward appearance to supportwhat you are calling a misuse of the verse... here I am at a total loss to see the logic of yourargument! You have admitted that there are kinds of outward appearance both of form and activitywhich can be misused to wrong conclusions and clearly in John when Jesus is being quoted as HisOwn Words we may rest assured all forms and aspects of the outward are being referred to... asgrammatically supported in the context.Love, StevenI think I was pretty clear in my meaning and point I was making of misappropritating the scripture as I believe you did in post #225 and do not feel the need to go through a bunch of garbly goop as these were your words not mine..."The inward man smiles all within me...and whispers to me 'they are looking in the wrong place'" which clearly showed your application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted June 30, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2015 The inward man all smiles within me... and whispers to me 'they are looking in the wrong place'John 7:2424 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.KJV Love, Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted June 30, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2015 The inward man all smiles within me... and whispers to me 'they are looking in the wrong place'John 7:2424 Judge not according to the "appearance", but judge righteous judgment.KJV Love, StevenYou are making in your application of this scripture to this particular thread out to mean that the scripture in which you quoted above is only referring to a way a person dresses and looks on the outside. By doing so you thus "twist" the true meaning of the scripture you quoted to fit your personal belief. I think this is wrong.The scripture above that you used obviously in it's proper context is talking of "appearances of any kind". And "NOT" singular as being only in clothing or how a person looks outwardly in appearance which is the context you placed the scripture in.But things of any kind may look and appear one way on the surface but in truth it may be an entirely a whole different thing that happened than what we thought we saw in appearance so we shouldn't judge in that kind of manner. Sometimes we don't have all the facts about something we see in appearance so we should reserve our judgmentuntil we do get all the facts so we can then properly assess and judge justly instead of on assumptions and false preceptions of what we thing is true on the surface.For example I may see a person I know in the grocery store from a distance from another aisle I'm on. But then I notice a gun and it looks like she is the one holding it up and it looks like from where I am standing she is robbing at gunpoint the cashier at the checkout register. But what I didn't she was it was really the person behind of her in the line in which was holding the gun and robbing the the chechout counter cashier but I automatically assumed it was the person I knew. The appearance was the person I knew was the one doing the robbing at gun point but from where I was standing and certain grocery items set out in the store was front of the person behind of the person I knew and blocked from me what was really going on. The true facts from what I thought I was seeing from where I was standing were false. But we shouldn't jump quickly to make judgments of any kind because we may not have nor be able to see and have all the true facts when we see things going on in appearances.I believe you have wrongly misused and misappropriated this scripture in a wrong manner concerning receiving a long hair and tattooed pastor spoken of within this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 1, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,252 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,498 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 1, 2015 repeating something over and over does not make it become true... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 1, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,252 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,498 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Exactly wrong is more like it. It means what I said it means. I already went through it section by section in this thread and fully broke the entire passage down. Not one person took the time to dispute it when I addressed it in that fashion because they couldn't. See post #109. If that is not good enough, I guess I can use the quote function to bring it up again. I had to do that once already in this thread. BTW, if this is about trying to change the gender of the person and that is the issue, then you are admitting that long hair gives a man a feminine appearance and women with short hair have a masculine appearance. That wouldn't have changed over time. Even that part of your argument makes no sense. You are also making God a respecter of persons, making the Corinthian church abide by something we don't have to abide by. You are also discrediting the Word of God, by reducing this passage we call the Word of God to just a letter giving instructions to a single church. Yes, God can be concerned about our hair and clothing. Here's the priority list:Matt 6:25 25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? KJV it seems your view "Yes, God can be concerned about our hair and clothing." is way down, down, down on that list- if there even at all! One of the areas that he teaches me is to be concerned with rightly dividing his Word- that which God 'IS' keeping and that which he 'IS' throwing away... and one of those eternal things is to be dressed in His Son's righteousness... I challenge you to find that in your closet! NO.. the point is they were growing the hair to increase the femininity in themselves to increase their appeal to the perversion... and that is the shame spoken of, in themselves, to increase their appeal to the perversion... Remember this is a letter of response and it is unclear what was asked so that Paul addresses it! They were babies in Christ referred to by scholarship the carnal Corinthians and no doubt plagued with the same errors as yourself judging someone's exterior before you even know the who, what or why they are. You are also discrediting the Word of God, by reducing this passage we call the Word of God to just a letter giving instructions to a single church. I don't believe God is ashamed of any of His Ways and certainly without any dispute (except from you) calling the letter a letter from Paul is not degrading in the least rather... if one meditates upon the way God has done such it increases awe of His ability, power and humility that is seen... Love, Steven Edited July 1, 2015 by enoob57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted July 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2015 repeating something over and over does not make it become true... Love, Stevenglad you seen my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted July 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Cultural requirements that Paul has laid down for the Church of his culture do not hold for all time. I am glad that Holy Spirit is the one who speaks to us about what is God-honourable behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted July 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 2, 2015 Cultural "requirements" that Paul has laid down for the Church of his culture do not hold for all time.I am glad that Holy Spirit is the one who "speaks" to us about what is God-honourable behaviour.I'm glad I understand Holy Spirit wrote the inspired word of God and that it is profitable for....(instructions in righteousness) requirementsI'm glad I understand that the Word is still for all cultures from Christ crucifixion and death on the cross and from the resurrection of Christ on the third day until the present time regardless of the culture of the believer...as there is no respector of persons with God.Using your logic and personal revelation I have to ask, Was all the "Requirements and everything that Paul wrote to the Corinthians in the first book of Corinthians "only" pertaining to the culture of Paul's time which is what you've quoted and said above?....If that were true then, Would the "Requirements" (instructions) for the use of spiritual gifts...the "Requirement" concerning incest going on in the church and how it should not be allowed to continue in the church...the "Requirements" for taking the Lord's supper...the way of love (the love chapter 13)..."Requirements" for lawsuits among other believers...the true wisdom being the gift of God...Christ being God's power and wisdom...the old testament saints being our examples..having and being diversities of spiritual gifts be done away with because we are no longer under Paul's culture in which he lived? If you answered yes then that would mean nothing Paul wrote in his espistle would pertain to believers today. Because if I follow the logic of your counsel scripture would only have applied in Paul's time period and culture in the time period he lived on the earth and they wouldn't apply to us today which I think is some serious error in how one views the scripture in general terms in that kind of logic.Apostle Paul wrote most of the espistle in the NT in the time period and culture in which he lived on earth and it is still for the believers who are alive IN Christ in this particular generation of believers and the future generations to come. Paul's culture that he lived in has nothing to do with the teachings and instructions we have been given by inspiration of God in any of his espistle or in the whole counsel of God from front to back cover. Apostle Paul wrote in the book of Hebrews in the culture and time period in which he lived on earth to "not forsake the assembling of yourselves together" does not that apply to us today under the same logic you have used in order to dismiss the teachings spoken about hair length as being Paul's cultural requirements? That kind of perspection and counsel bleeds over into the whole counsel of God being viewed in that light. Your personal revelation in which you have shared with us so briefly is not taught in scriptures and I cannot accept it nor can it be used as a giant eraser to some how erase what is written in the scripture concerning hair length. The scripture is there and ignoring it and making excuses why it isn't revelent want make it go away unless you want to tear that page out of your bible.According to the subject of the thread some will not accept pastors as their personal leaders or spiritual guides because of long hair on a man and short hair on a woman because of what is written in the scripture including marking your flesh. People have knowledge of said scripture being in the bible but they may have no understanding of said scriptures passage meaning. But nevertheless they personally will not follow pastor(s) with long hair on a man and women minister(s) with short hair.No matter what I feel personally about the subject of hair length found in the scriptures. The fact and truth remains which can't be changed by us personally and that truth and fact is that there will be some that will not accept you as a pastor because of your long, short hair and tattoos.Sometime we personally will have to shake the dust off our feet and move on. But trying to make the scriptures some how null and void is not the way to go if someone doesn't accept us. Being rejected will make us feel slighted and not understand and can even make us hard, angry and bitter along the way if not careful but it's a cold hearted fact that not all will recieve us or our message or ministry in the Lord. And trying to change the meaning of the scriptures or trying to dismiss them still want make others recieve if they chose not too they are still going to be rejection from others.Maybe just coming to terms with that truth and accepting that hard fact in life that we will indeed face rejection and not be accepted in all things in life. At least that would be a better thing to do than to pervert the scriptures over to our liking and views and personal preferences in life.Each of us has our own choices in this life to follow those who are examples to us in the faith and if we think someone is not that example then we as individual believers have every right to not follow that person and for whatever reason we personally may have for not following them. The topic of the thread is not a judgmental or sin issue as it is being made out to be. But rather one of opinion if you would follow such a one with long hair and tattoo's. Scripture says it's a shame...do with that as you may it's your decision.My personal opinion not that it matters is that it is a shame. I have no judgment for any man who has long hair or any woman who has short hair as I see their hair as their business to keep up. I will accept a woman and man who may have long or short hair. But will not follow after as a spiritual leader of any sort. That is my right as a believer as I am taught in scripture of who to follow as their are blind guides and false teachers and apostles etc., that are out there and will lead us into a ditch. That being the case I am the one who is responsible in whom I follow and listen to as an example before me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 6, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,252 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,498 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yes it is a big deal looking at this as just a letter from Paul. If that is the case, it is not the Word of God and neither are the other epistles. It is very degrading.Your inability to properly frame the written remarks of others makes it difficultto reason with you... surmised intention of written material (not written) is apoor accusation falling back upon the accuser! Although in all probability thiswill not even reach your consideration ... others in quietness will probably agree...Col 4:16-1716 When this letter is read among you, have it also readin the church of the Laodiceans; and you, for your partread my letter that is coming from Laodicea. 17 Say toArchippus, "Take heed to the ministry which you havereceived in the Lord, that you may fulfill it."NASULove, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 8, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,252 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,498 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Butero it seems you have not learned the discipline of putting away your own agendasin the reading of others... assuming in any category by prejudice of ones own preparedthoughts will lead to wrong interpretations of others written remarks. For instanceyour statement aboveif I didn't see any of them as more than letters, and not God's Word, which is how many seem to treat scripture.by me siting them as letters "where even Paul himself did / as that is how they began" is not the concluding of my understandingof Scripture but that by your own agenda where you placed my comment... I find it a waste of time wading through your presetaspects to communicate to you... why not ask before you accuse allowing the humility of your thoughts having possibility of notbeing the intended written communication of another? Brother you come across as harsh and legalistic in a place where lawhas been fulfilled and grace has allowed us to enter into a place with God where no law is needed... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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