Guest shiloh357 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 One thing to understand about apocalyptic literature is that you cannot relegate everything to symbolism. When you do, you create a subjective approach that makes the text subservant to the reader. Sometimes, a rock is just a rock. Trying to look for symbols behind every corner forces the text to mean something the author didn't intend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 21, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2015 Little flower, would you use the term "style" for genre in discussing the writing style as genre is mostly used for describing painting....small but picky point. I am not certain if you mean style or time period. Well I don't think that would work very well as a genre is a type of literature such as fiction or non-fiction, biography, etc. One can employ various writing styles in each genre.. A writing style is, well simply a style of writing styles cross the genre boundries. They are not synonymous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 21, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2015 Serving, let's start here with one of your last claims - that of numerology. I was not referring to occultic numerology. I was referring to biblical numerology: What is Biblical Numerology? by Matt Slick It seems quite obvious that the Bible uses numbers in patterns. Who can deny that 40 is significant? Jesus was in the desert for 40 days, and the Israelites wandered in the desert for 40 years. Whether or not the analysis of these number patterns is accurate is up for debate, but I present to you this information condensed from the book Number in Scripture by Bullinger. One of the interesting features of Hebrew and Greek is that in both written languages there are no numeric characters. Where we have numbers and letters, they have only letters. So, in each language the letters are also used as numbers. In a small way we do the same thing in English. For example, is "O" a zero or a letter in the alphabet? Is "l" a one or a small L? When they are used, the context tells us which is which; and we have no problem understanding it. The same goes for Hebrew and Greek. They knew when they were writing numbers and when they were writing letters. The interesting thing is that when a word is written, it also has a numeric equivalent. For example, the word "Jesus" in Greek is iasous. Since each letter has a numeric equivalent, we can add up each number and get a value. The value is the gammatria. Therefore, the gammatria of "Jesus" in Greek is 888 because i = 10, a = 8, s = 200, o = 70, u = 400, s = 200. There are many interesting 'games' that can be played with this feature of Greek and Hebrew, and much of it is absurd. However, some of the numeric relationships are interesting. Whether or not the numbers really have a significance is still debated in many circles. Nevertheless, I present the information for your examination. 1 THE NUMBER OF UNITY. Father. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Ephesians 4:5 "one Lord, one faith, one baptism." 2 THE NUMBER OF DIVISION. The Son who has two natures: human and divine. There are 2 Testaments: the Old and New. Man is Male and Female. Rom. 9speaks of two vessels: one for honorable use and the other for dishonorable use. Two types of people: Sheep and Goats. There are two ages: this age and the age to come: Matt. 12:32; 13:39, 40, 49; Mark 10:30. 3 THE NUMBER OF DIVINE PERFECTION. The Trinity consists of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are three qualities of the universe: Time, Space, and Matter. To exist (except for God) all three are required. Each quality consists of three elements. Therefore, we live in a trinity of trinities. more at: https://carm.org/what-biblical-numerology The occultic form of numerology seeks to use it as divination. Just because the occultic form of numerology uses numbers in divination does not mean that it is wrong to use numbers to symbolically represent specific characteristics or meaning. It seems you and I are talking about two different things. As far as the rest of what you have stated, you've made many claims which I see no support for in scripture. I would be happy to talk about them with you, but that would require you to present evidence as to why we should understand what you say is supported in scripture, so we can look at it together. Bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 21, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2015 And serving, I came out of the occult in my conversion decades ago. I am very familiar with it and its various forms. Please, be careful of what you accuse others of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted July 21, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2015 Little flower, would you use the term "style" for genre in discussing the writing style as genre is mostly used for describing painting....small but picky point. I am not certain if you mean style or time period. Well I don't think that would work very well as a genre is a type of literature such as fiction or non-fiction, biography, etc. One can employ various writing styles in each genre.. A writing style is, well simply a style of writing styles cross the genre boundries. They are not synonymous. Actually..it is a painting term.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted July 21, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2015 the rapture is meeting Jesus in the air. 2nd coming is Jesus standing on Mt. Of Olives. We as the raptured saints will be coming back to earth on those white horses at the end of the tribulation with Christ. this proves that there are horses in heaven, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 21, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2015 Little flower, would you use the term "style" for genre in discussing the writing style as genre is mostly used for describing painting....small but picky point. I am not certain if you mean style or time period. Well I don't think that would work very well as a genre is a type of literature such as fiction or non-fiction, biography, etc. One can employ various writing styles in each genre.. A writing style is, well simply a style of writing styles cross the genre boundries. They are not synonymous. Actually..it is a painting term.... I'm not sure I'm following you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 21, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2015 the rapture is meeting Jesus in the air. 2nd coming is Jesus standing on Mt. Of Olives. We as the raptured saints will be coming back to earth on those white horses at the end of the tribulation with Christ. this proves that there are horses in heaven, doesn't it? If the horses are literal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serving Posted July 21, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 934 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 905 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/14/1969 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Serving, let's start here with one of your last claims - that of numerology. I was not referring to occultic numerology. I was referring to biblical numerology: What is Biblical Numerology? by Matt Slick It seems quite obvious that the Bible uses numbers in patterns. Who can deny that 40 is significant? Jesus was in the desert for 40 days, and the Israelites wandered in the desert for 40 years. Whether or not the analysis of these number patterns is accurate is up for debate, but I present to you this information condensed from the book Number in Scripture by Bullinger. One of the interesting features of Hebrew and Greek is that in both written languages there are no numeric characters. Where we have numbers and letters, they have only letters. So, in each language the letters are also used as numbers. In a small way we do the same thing in English. For example, is "O" a zero or a letter in the alphabet? Is "l" a one or a small L? When they are used, the context tells us which is which; and we have no problem understanding it. The same goes for Hebrew and Greek. They knew when they were writing numbers and when they were writing letters. The interesting thing is that when a word is written, it also has a numeric equivalent. For example, the word "Jesus" in Greek is iasous. Since each letter has a numeric equivalent, we can add up each number and get a value. The value is the gammatria. Therefore, the gammatria of "Jesus" in Greek is 888 because i = 10, a = 8, s = 200, o = 70, u = 400, s = 200. There are many interesting 'games' that can be played with this feature of Greek and Hebrew, and much of it is absurd. However, some of the numeric relationships are interesting. Whether or not the numbers really have a significance is still debated in many circles. Nevertheless, I present the information for your examination. 1 THE NUMBER OF UNITY. Father. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Ephesians 4:5 "one Lord, one faith, one baptism." 2 THE NUMBER OF DIVISION. The Son who has two natures: human and divine. There are 2 Testaments: the Old and New. Man is Male and Female. Rom. 9speaks of two vessels: one for honorable use and the other for dishonorable use. Two types of people: Sheep and Goats. There are two ages: this age and the age to come: Matt. 12:32; 13:39, 40, 49; Mark 10:30. 3 THE NUMBER OF DIVINE PERFECTION. The Trinity consists of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are three qualities of the universe: Time, Space, and Matter. To exist (except for God) all three are required. Each quality consists of three elements. Therefore, we live in a trinity of trinities. more at: https://carm.org/what-biblical-numerology The occultic form of numerology seeks to use it as divination. Just because the occultic form of numerology uses numbers in divination does not mean that it is wrong to use numbers to symbolically represent specific characteristics or meaning. It seems you and I are talking about two different things. As far as the rest of what you have stated, you've made many claims which I see no support for in scripture. I would be happy to talk about them with you, but that would require you to present evidence as to why we should understand what you say is supported in scripture, so we can look at it together. Bless you. Hi Therese, Just putting "biblical" in front of something does not make it so. I am aware of "gammatria" & have seen the ridiculous interpretations come out of it concerning prophecies and scriptural interpretations, some which were even touching on the blasphemous .. all because of occult based numerological infiltration .. for example, because of gammatria, I have spoken with a bloke who is convinced that Joshua is actually Jesus which he most certainly was not .. he believed the gammartian process more than the scriptures in the end .. and THAT is it's true purpose .. all because of that numbers game, the point being, it brings confusion .. and before you go saying, "oh, only when it is abused" .. no .. IT itself is the abuser & it is OCCULT based whether you like it or not. Christ's mysteries are ONLY learnt by LIVING the WAY as He declared .. there is no back door .. not now, not never .. we were not called to "divine" the written words meanings through bypassing the ONLY WAY through that "door" which Christ emphasized as the ONLY WAY .. this "gammatria" tries to provide another way to His mysteries .. no self sacrifice, no faith, no fruit .. just count the numbers and Kazaam !! Wide is the road L.flower .. come back to your first Love, time is too short .. maybe a handful of years at most before the wicked one appears .. come back to the Lord and forget that book before it swallows you whole like that man I spoke to. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted July 21, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2015 Serving, let's start here with one of your last claims - that of numerology. I was not referring to occultic numerology. I was referring to biblical numerology: What is Biblical Numerology? by Matt Slick It seems quite obvious that the Bible uses numbers in patterns. Who can deny that 40 is significant? Jesus was in the desert for 40 days, and the Israelites wandered in the desert for 40 years. Whether or not the analysis of these number patterns is accurate is up for debate, but I present to you this information condensed from the book Number in Scripture by Bullinger. One of the interesting features of Hebrew and Greek is that in both written languages there are no numeric characters. Where we have numbers and letters, they have only letters. So, in each language the letters are also used as numbers. In a small way we do the same thing in English. For example, is "O" a zero or a letter in the alphabet? Is "l" a one or a small L? When they are used, the context tells us which is which; and we have no problem understanding it. The same goes for Hebrew and Greek. They knew when they were writing numbers and when they were writing letters. The interesting thing is that when a word is written, it also has a numeric equivalent. For example, the word "Jesus" in Greek is iasous. Since each letter has a numeric equivalent, we can add up each number and get a value. The value is the gammatria. Therefore, the gammatria of "Jesus" in Greek is 888 because i = 10, a = 8, s = 200, o = 70, u = 400, s = 200. There are many interesting 'games' that can be played with this feature of Greek and Hebrew, and much of it is absurd. However, some of the numeric relationships are interesting. Whether or not the numbers really have a significance is still debated in many circles. Nevertheless, I present the information for your examination. 1 THE NUMBER OF UNITY. Father. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Ephesians 4:5 "one Lord, one faith, one baptism." 2 THE NUMBER OF DIVISION. The Son who has two natures: human and divine. There are 2 Testaments: the Old and New. Man is Male and Female. Rom. 9speaks of two vessels: one for honorable use and the other for dishonorable use. Two types of people: Sheep and Goats. There are two ages: this age and the age to come: Matt. 12:32; 13:39, 40, 49; Mark 10:30. 3 THE NUMBER OF DIVINE PERFECTION. The Trinity consists of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are three qualities of the universe: Time, Space, and Matter. To exist (except for God) all three are required. Each quality consists of three elements. Therefore, we live in a trinity of trinities. more at: https://carm.org/what-biblical-numerology The occultic form of numerology seeks to use it as divination. Just because the occultic form of numerology uses numbers in divination does not mean that it is wrong to use numbers to symbolically represent specific characteristics or meaning. It seems you and I are talking about two different things. As far as the rest of what you have stated, you've made many claims which I see no support for in scripture. I would be happy to talk about them with you, but that would require you to present evidence as to why we should understand what you say is supported in scripture, so we can look at it together. Bless you. Hi Therese, Just putting "biblical" in front of something does not make it so. I am aware of "gammatria" & have seen the ridiculous interpretations come out of it concerning prophecies and scriptural interpretations, some which were even touching on the blasphemous .. all because of occult based numerological infiltration .. for example, because of gammatria, I have spoken with a bloke who is convinced that Joshua is actually Jesus which he most certainly was not .. he believed the gammartian process more than the scriptures in the end .. and THAT is it's true purpose .. all because of that numbers game, the point being, it brings confusion .. and before you go saying, "oh, only when it is abused" .. no .. IT itself is the abuser & it is OCCULT based whether you like it or not. Christ's mysteries are ONLY learnt by LIVING the WAY as He declared .. there is no back door .. not now, not never .. we were not called to "divine" the written words meanings through bypassing the ONLY WAY through that "door" which Christ emphasized as the ONLY WAY .. this "gammatria" tries to provide another way to His mysteries .. no self sacrifice, no faith, no fruit .. just count the numbers and Kazaam !! Wide is the road L.flower .. come back to your first Love, time is too short .. maybe a handful of years at most before the wicked one appears .. come back to the Lord and forget that book before it swallows you whole like that man I spoke to. Cheers. Well, here is how I see it. Just because words and approaches are used both by christians and occult practices doesn't make them equal. For instance, look at the word prayer - Christians pray, satanists pray - does that make prayer used by christians evil? No, of course not. It is how prayer is put to use that determines its rightness or wrongness. The bible tells us in the OT: Exodus 20:4 You shall not make to you any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Does this mean that statues are forbidden? When it comes to numbers, what do you do with the number 666? When we look at the book of Revelation it says this: Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. We are given a number; we are told its meaning requires wisdom and understanding; that the number is that of a man, and if we have wisdom and understanding, to calculate the number, and his number is 666. Personally, what do you do with that number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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