Defender of the Faith?

[Willa]

Again, I agree with Scripture but not the way you interpret them.   Onesiphorus is spoken of as one who is not with his family but who has been with Paul and had helped him.  He is not necessarily dead and I have never read it to mean that he was.  

 

When Christ judges the church he will judge our works and reward us as to the quality.   This has nothing to do with purgatory.  The works that remain will be those inspired of God and done in love.  This is something that is to come after the wrath of God is poured out on the world. 

 

The 30 year war was a very bloody war in which horrible things were done by the Catholic church as well as by those broke away from it.  Much of it was political and had little to do with any true Christians.  Luther was very wrong in giving in to the prevalent antisemitism at the end of his life.

 

Origen was called a heretic by the Catholic church but you quote him as an authority???

The fact that error was already creeping into the church in the catacombs is not proof of the validity of praying for the dead, who either had the life of Christ in them or did not.  There are no second chances after death.  Either their sins are forgiven by grace and faith in the blood of Christ or they remain unforgiven.  

 

The very fact that the Catholic church killed those who tried to print or even translate the Bible into the language of the people is proof of the evil guiding it.  It was afraid of the truth becoming known.  The Holy Spirit works largely through the Word of God.  Jesus Himself is called the Word.  The Catholic church has been afraid of the people knowing the Truth since at least the year 600 and has withheld the Scriptures from the people.  At least the Greek church allowed the people to have access to the Bible.  

 

If the pope himself has no better understanding of salvation than to make a personal opinion known that athiests will go to heaven by their good works, then I have reason to doubt the pope's salvation.  

 

Didn't you agree not to teach Catholic doctrine when you joined this forum?  It used to be part of the TOS.

[MorningGlory]

 

 

I would like to keep the tone of our discussion from becoming adversarial, but rather this be a simple sharing of information to bring clarity. 

 

I have found pointing fingers usually means there are three point right back at me  (just old up your hand and point a finger at something. .  three of your fingers are pointing at you.)

 

And I found this was true when I pointed fingers at the Catholic Church for the same things you are - when I actually started to investigate history in earnest, I found I as a protestant had no leg to stand on, for the history of the reformation and protestantism is just as bloody, if not more so, than that of the Catholic Church.    So unless you are prepared to toss the whole lot out, it is simply hypocrisy to point the finger at the Catholic Church and disqualifying it for real or perceived wrongs while not also disqualifying the protestant reformation, and protestantism.   

 

To me what qualifies a church is their teaching and the origins of that teaching.  All churches are led by human, frail, fallible men, and their actions do not determine the legitimacy of the churches' teachings.   Their actions merely reveal their own tendencies to sin.     

 

I found in my search through history, much of what is promoted as history regarding the Catholic Church is greatly exaggerated or in error.   And you should know I started this search as a very, very anti catholic - rabidly anti-catholic,  absolutely convinced I was right, that it was pagan, wrong, demonic even.   So if I was looking for anything it would have been support for my views.  But I am also a realist, and I approach things logically, and what I was finding was not adding up to what I thought was true.  As a realist and as a logically thinking person, I found I had to adjust my view and understanding of history.  This was no easy task.  I fought it tooth and nail.  But truth is what is important to me above all else.

 

And so, in response to your comments about the Catholic Church and the Nazis,  I found the "history" of the Catholic Church's collusion with Nazism is in fact a myth.  I found that the history of this time is very complicated, and if one wants to take a superficial view of it one can easily come away with the idea there was collusion.   But in fact there was not.   An anti-catholic play "The Deputy" made the rounds and was so popular that what was fiction became real in people's minds, and so the saying was proven true - If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.

 

Ten years ago, Rabbi David Dalin, wanting to set the record straight, came out with his book   

 

The Myth of Hitler's Pope: Pope Pius XII And His Secret War Against Nazi Germany

 

Was Pope Pius XII secretly in league with Adolf Hitler? No, says Rabbi David G. Dalin—but there was a cleric in league with Hitler: the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. As Pope Pius XII worked to save Jews from the Nazis, the grand mufti became Hitler’s staunch ally and a promoter of the Holocaust, with a legacy that feeds radical Islam today. In this shocking and thoroughly documented book, Rabbi Dalin explodes the myth of Hitler’s pope and condemns the myth-makers for not only rewriting history, but for denying the testimony of Holocaust survivors, hijacking the Holocaust for unseemly political ends, and ignoring the real threat to the Jewish people. In The Myth of Hitler’s Pope, you’ll learn: · The true history of Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust—how the Catholic Church did more than any other religious body to save Jewish lives · The real history of the Church and the Nazis—including the Nazi plan to kidnap the pope · The real agenda of the myth-makers: hijacking the Holocaust to attack the very idea of the papacy—especially the papacy of the late Pope John Paul II—as well as Christianity and traditional religion as a whole · Hitler’s cleric—Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who advised and assisted the Nazis in carrying out Hitler’s Final Solution · How Pope Pius XII rescued Jews—and deserves to be called a "righteous gentile"—while the grand mufti of Jerusalem called for their extermination Full of shocking and irrefutable detail, The Myth of Hitler’s Pope is sure to generate controversy, and more important, to set the record straight. If you want the truth about Pope Pius XII, about the Catholic Church, the Jews, and the Holocaust, and about how the myth of Hitler’s pope plays into the culture wars of our own time—and how the fact of Hitler’s mufti is a vital source of radical Islam today—you must begin here.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Hitlers-Pope-Against/dp/0895260344

 

This is written from the Jewish perspective, presenting facts which I think most people here are quite unaware of, even if they believe themselves to be well informed.

 

 

Most here are not trying to push Catholic revisionism.  You have mentioned Purgatory as if it was actual fact and denied the collusion between the Vatican and the Third Reich.  It's not a matter of being civil.  I don't believe in playing footsie with what I know to be wrong.  You're a heretic,Therese; pure and simple.  You're a tool and I am calling you out on trying to teach the rubbish you've unloaded in this thread.  May the Lord bring you to the light because you're lost in darkness. 

[thereselittleflower]

 

 

 

I would like to keep the tone of our discussion from becoming adversarial, but rather this be a simple sharing of information to bring clarity. 

 

I have found pointing fingers usually means there are three point right back at me  (just old up your hand and point a finger at something. .  three of your fingers are pointing at you.)

 

And I found this was true when I pointed fingers at the Catholic Church for the same things you are - when I actually started to investigate history in earnest, I found I as a protestant had no leg to stand on, for the history of the reformation and protestantism is just as bloody, if not more so, than that of the Catholic Church.    So unless you are prepared to toss the whole lot out, it is simply hypocrisy to point the finger at the Catholic Church and disqualifying it for real or perceived wrongs while not also disqualifying the protestant reformation, and protestantism.   

 

To me what qualifies a church is their teaching and the origins of that teaching.  All churches are led by human, frail, fallible men, and their actions do not determine the legitimacy of the churches' teachings.   Their actions merely reveal their own tendencies to sin.     

 

I found in my search through history, much of what is promoted as history regarding the Catholic Church is greatly exaggerated or in error.   And you should know I started this search as a very, very anti catholic - rabidly anti-catholic,  absolutely convinced I was right, that it was pagan, wrong, demonic even.   So if I was looking for anything it would have been support for my views.  But I am also a realist, and I approach things logically, and what I was finding was not adding up to what I thought was true.  As a realist and as a logically thinking person, I found I had to adjust my view and understanding of history.  This was no easy task.  I fought it tooth and nail.  But truth is what is important to me above all else.

 

And so, in response to your comments about the Catholic Church and the Nazis,  I found the "history" of the Catholic Church's collusion with Nazism is in fact a myth.  I found that the history of this time is very complicated, and if one wants to take a superficial view of it one can easily come away with the idea there was collusion.   But in fact there was not.   An anti-catholic play "The Deputy" made the rounds and was so popular that what was fiction became real in people's minds, and so the saying was proven true - If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.

 

Ten years ago, Rabbi David Dalin, wanting to set the record straight, came out with his book   

 

The Myth of Hitler's Pope: Pope Pius XII And His Secret War Against Nazi Germany

 

Was Pope Pius XII secretly in league with Adolf Hitler? No, says Rabbi David G. Dalin—but there was a cleric in league with Hitler: the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. As Pope Pius XII worked to save Jews from the Nazis, the grand mufti became Hitler’s staunch ally and a promoter of the Holocaust, with a legacy that feeds radical Islam today. In this shocking and thoroughly documented book, Rabbi Dalin explodes the myth of Hitler’s pope and condemns the myth-makers for not only rewriting history, but for denying the testimony of Holocaust survivors, hijacking the Holocaust for unseemly political ends, and ignoring the real threat to the Jewish people. In The Myth of Hitler’s Pope, you’ll learn: · The true history of Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust—how the Catholic Church did more than any other religious body to save Jewish lives · The real history of the Church and the Nazis—including the Nazi plan to kidnap the pope · The real agenda of the myth-makers: hijacking the Holocaust to attack the very idea of the papacy—especially the papacy of the late Pope John Paul II—as well as Christianity and traditional religion as a whole · Hitler’s cleric—Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who advised and assisted the Nazis in carrying out Hitler’s Final Solution · How Pope Pius XII rescued Jews—and deserves to be called a "righteous gentile"—while the grand mufti of Jerusalem called for their extermination Full of shocking and irrefutable detail, The Myth of Hitler’s Pope is sure to generate controversy, and more important, to set the record straight. If you want the truth about Pope Pius XII, about the Catholic Church, the Jews, and the Holocaust, and about how the myth of Hitler’s pope plays into the culture wars of our own time—and how the fact of Hitler’s mufti is a vital source of radical Islam today—you must begin here.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Hitlers-Pope-Against/dp/0895260344

 

This is written from the Jewish perspective, presenting facts which I think most people here are quite unaware of, even if they believe themselves to be well informed.

 

 

Most here are not trying to push Catholic revisionism.  You have mentioned Purgatory as if it was actual fact and denied the collusion between the Vatican and the Third Reich.  It's not a matter of being civil.  I don't believe in playing footsie with what I know to be wrong.  You're a heretic,Therese; pure and simple.  You're a tool and I am calling you out on trying to teach the rubbish you've unloaded in this thread.  May the Lord bring you to the light because you're lost in darkness. 

 

 

 

You are simply wrong my friend.   I hope you will, at least, take time to read Rabbi Dalin's book I linked to you above.

[MorningGlory]

 

 

 

 

I would like to keep the tone of our discussion from becoming adversarial, but rather this be a simple sharing of information to bring clarity. 

 

I have found pointing fingers usually means there are three point right back at me  (just old up your hand and point a finger at something. .  three of your fingers are pointing at you.)

 

And I found this was true when I pointed fingers at the Catholic Church for the same things you are - when I actually started to investigate history in earnest, I found I as a protestant had no leg to stand on, for the history of the reformation and protestantism is just as bloody, if not more so, than that of the Catholic Church.    So unless you are prepared to toss the whole lot out, it is simply hypocrisy to point the finger at the Catholic Church and disqualifying it for real or perceived wrongs while not also disqualifying the protestant reformation, and protestantism.   

 

To me what qualifies a church is their teaching and the origins of that teaching.  All churches are led by human, frail, fallible men, and their actions do not determine the legitimacy of the churches' teachings.   Their actions merely reveal their own tendencies to sin.     

 

I found in my search through history, much of what is promoted as history regarding the Catholic Church is greatly exaggerated or in error.   And you should know I started this search as a very, very anti catholic - rabidly anti-catholic,  absolutely convinced I was right, that it was pagan, wrong, demonic even.   So if I was looking for anything it would have been support for my views.  But I am also a realist, and I approach things logically, and what I was finding was not adding up to what I thought was true.  As a realist and as a logically thinking person, I found I had to adjust my view and understanding of history.  This was no easy task.  I fought it tooth and nail.  But truth is what is important to me above all else.

 

And so, in response to your comments about the Catholic Church and the Nazis,  I found the "history" of the Catholic Church's collusion with Nazism is in fact a myth.  I found that the history of this time is very complicated, and if one wants to take a superficial view of it one can easily come away with the idea there was collusion.   But in fact there was not.   An anti-catholic play "The Deputy" made the rounds and was so popular that what was fiction became real in people's minds, and so the saying was proven true - If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.

 

Ten years ago, Rabbi David Dalin, wanting to set the record straight, came out with his book   

 

The Myth of Hitler's Pope: Pope Pius XII And His Secret War Against Nazi Germany

 

Was Pope Pius XII secretly in league with Adolf Hitler? No, says Rabbi David G. Dalin—but there was a cleric in league with Hitler: the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. As Pope Pius XII worked to save Jews from the Nazis, the grand mufti became Hitler’s staunch ally and a promoter of the Holocaust, with a legacy that feeds radical Islam today. In this shocking and thoroughly documented book, Rabbi Dalin explodes the myth of Hitler’s pope and condemns the myth-makers for not only rewriting history, but for denying the testimony of Holocaust survivors, hijacking the Holocaust for unseemly political ends, and ignoring the real threat to the Jewish people. In The Myth of Hitler’s Pope, you’ll learn: · The true history of Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust—how the Catholic Church did more than any other religious body to save Jewish lives · The real history of the Church and the Nazis—including the Nazi plan to kidnap the pope · The real agenda of the myth-makers: hijacking the Holocaust to attack the very idea of the papacy—especially the papacy of the late Pope John Paul II—as well as Christianity and traditional religion as a whole · Hitler’s cleric—Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who advised and assisted the Nazis in carrying out Hitler’s Final Solution · How Pope Pius XII rescued Jews—and deserves to be called a "righteous gentile"—while the grand mufti of Jerusalem called for their extermination Full of shocking and irrefutable detail, The Myth of Hitler’s Pope is sure to generate controversy, and more important, to set the record straight. If you want the truth about Pope Pius XII, about the Catholic Church, the Jews, and the Holocaust, and about how the myth of Hitler’s pope plays into the culture wars of our own time—and how the fact of Hitler’s mufti is a vital source of radical Islam today—you must begin here.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Hitlers-Pope-Against/dp/0895260344

 

This is written from the Jewish perspective, presenting facts which I think most people here are quite unaware of, even if they believe themselves to be well informed.

 

 

Most here are not trying to push Catholic revisionism.  You have mentioned Purgatory as if it was actual fact and denied the collusion between the Vatican and the Third Reich.  It's not a matter of being civil.  I don't believe in playing footsie with what I know to be wrong.  You're a heretic,Therese; pure and simple.  You're a tool and I am calling you out on trying to teach the rubbish you've unloaded in this thread.  May the Lord bring you to the light because you're lost in darkness. 

 

 

 

You are simply wrong my friend.   I hope you will, at least, take time to read Rabbi Dalin's book I linked to you above.

 

 

I'm seldom wrong when it comes to zeroing in on lies and I'm very much aware of the post-a-million-words strategy used by people like you to shield things from the moderators and the claims of being scholars which simply aren't true.  It's never worked yet.  And, no, I will not be reading that book.

[thereselittleflower]

 

 

 

 

The bloody history of the RCC is a fact, an historical fact and the collusion with the Nazis is as well.  The information about the last five or six Popes is public record.  I, as a clear eyed realist, don't give credence to myths or CTs.  If you can deny the last thousand years or so of RCC history then you are absolutely not dealing with reality.  I'm not talking Scripture here; I'm talking straight up history. 

 

I would like to keep the tone of our discussion from becoming adversarial, but rather this be a simple sharing of information to bring clarity. 

 

I have found pointing fingers usually means there are three point right back at me  (just old up your hand and point a finger at something. .  three of your fingers are pointing at you.)

 

And I found this was true when I pointed fingers at the Catholic Church for the same things you are - when I actually started to investigate history in earnest, I found I as a protestant had no leg to stand on, for the history of the reformation and protestantism is just as bloody, if not more so, than that of the Catholic Church.    So unless you are prepared to toss the whole lot out, it is simply hypocrisy to point the finger at the Catholic Church and disqualifying it for real or perceived wrongs while not also disqualifying the protestant reformation, and protestantism.   

 

To me what qualifies a church is their teaching and the origins of that teaching.  All churches are led by human, frail, fallible men, and their actions do not determine the legitimacy of the churches' teachings.   Their actions merely reveal their own tendencies to sin.     

 

I found in my search through history, much of what is promoted as history regarding the Catholic Church is greatly exaggerated or in error.   And you should know I started this search as a very, very anti catholic - rabidly anti-catholic,  absolutely convinced I was right, that it was pagan, wrong, demonic even.   So if I was looking for anything it would have been support for my views.  But I am also a realist, and I approach things logically, and what I was finding was not adding up to what I thought was true.  As a realist and as a logically thinking person, I found I had to adjust my view and understanding of history.  This was no easy task.  I fought it tooth and nail.  But truth is what is important to me above all else.

 

And so, in response to your comments about the Catholic Church and the Nazis,  I found the "history" of the Catholic Church's collusion with Nazism is in fact a myth.  I found that the history of this time is very complicated, and if one wants to take a superficial view of it one can easily come away with the idea there was collusion.   But in fact there was not.   An anti-catholic play "The Deputy" made the rounds and was so popular that what was fiction became real in people's minds, and so the saying was proven true - If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.

 

Ten years ago, Rabbi David Dalin, wanting to set the record straight, came out with his book   

 

The Myth of Hitler's Pope: Pope Pius XII And His Secret War Against Nazi Germany

 

Was Pope Pius XII secretly in league with Adolf Hitler? No, says Rabbi David G. Dalin—but there was a cleric in league with Hitler: the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. As Pope Pius XII worked to save Jews from the Nazis, the grand mufti became Hitler’s staunch ally and a promoter of the Holocaust, with a legacy that feeds radical Islam today. In this shocking and thoroughly documented book, Rabbi Dalin explodes the myth of Hitler’s pope and condemns the myth-makers for not only rewriting history, but for denying the testimony of Holocaust survivors, hijacking the Holocaust for unseemly political ends, and ignoring the real threat to the Jewish people. In The Myth of Hitler’s Pope, you’ll learn: · The true history of Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust—how the Catholic Church did more than any other religious body to save Jewish lives · The real history of the Church and the Nazis—including the Nazi plan to kidnap the pope · The real agenda of the myth-makers: hijacking the Holocaust to attack the very idea of the papacy—especially the papacy of the late Pope John Paul II—as well as Christianity and traditional religion as a whole · Hitler’s cleric—Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who advised and assisted the Nazis in carrying out Hitler’s Final Solution · How Pope Pius XII rescued Jews—and deserves to be called a "righteous gentile"—while the grand mufti of Jerusalem called for their extermination Full of shocking and irrefutable detail, The Myth of Hitler’s Pope is sure to generate controversy, and more important, to set the record straight. If you want the truth about Pope Pius XII, about the Catholic Church, the Jews, and the Holocaust, and about how the myth of Hitler’s pope plays into the culture wars of our own time—and how the fact of Hitler’s mufti is a vital source of radical Islam today—you must begin here.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Hitlers-Pope-Against/dp/0895260344

 

This is written from the Jewish perspective, presenting facts which I think most people here are quite unaware of, even if they believe themselves to be well informed.

 

 

Most here are not trying to push Catholic revisionism.  You have mentioned Purgatory as if it was actual fact and denied the collusion between the Vatican and the Third Reich.  It's not a matter of being civil.  I don't believe in playing footsie with what I know to be wrong.  You're a heretic,Therese; pure and simple.  You're a tool and I am calling you out on trying to teach the rubbish you've unloaded in this thread.  May the Lord bring you to the light because you're lost in darkness. 

 

 

 

You are simply wrong my friend.   I hope you will, at least, take time to read Rabbi Dalin's book I linked to you above.

 

 

I'm seldom wrong when it comes to zeroing in on lies and I'm very much aware of the post-a-million-words strategy used by people like you to shield things from the moderators and the claims of being scholars which simply aren't true.  It's never worked yet.  And, no, I will not be reading that book.

 

 

When someone chooses to ignore facts that don't line up with their paradigm of the world, it is not the facts that are wrong. 

 

God bless you.

[gdemoss]

There were two kingdoms...Northern and Southern...both were full of error.

Again I say unto you...

There were two kingdoms...Roman Catholic and Protestant...both were full of error.

Come Lord Jesus!

[thereselittleflower]

There were two kingdoms...Northern and Southern...both were full of error.

Again I say unto you...

There were two kingdoms...Roman Catholic and Protestant...both were full of error.

Come Lord Jesus!

 

 

That gave me a chuckle.  

[gdemoss]

There were two kingdoms...Northern and Southern...both were full of error.

Again I say unto you...

There were two kingdoms...Roman Catholic and Protestant...both were full of error.

Come Lord Jesus!

That gave me a chuckle.

Me too until I understood the gravity of the truth behind it. Today it causes me sorrow.

[thereselittleflower]

I have been reduced to tears reading letters by a man, Alfred Delp, condemned to execution by the Nazis because of his faith, written during the months he awaited his death.    I have been humbled by this man's faith in God, his gentle heart, his trust in Jesus.

 

 

Convicted with others, such as Helmuth James Graf von Moltke, a protestant and wealthy landowner, in a trial held after the attempt on Hitler's life, which they were not participants in (and had been cleared of), the reasons for their conviction and sentencing for execution were in essence because they were christians and planned for a future without Hitler and Nazism.  They were Protestants and Catholics.  

 

From the wiki article on Moltke: 

 

Moltke claimed that he stood before the court "...not as a Protestant, not as a great landowner, not as an aristocrat, not as a Prussian, not as a German...but as a Christian and nothing else".^[12] He wrote: "But what the Third Reich is so terrified of ... is ultimately the following: a private individual, your husband, of whom it is established that he discussed with 2 clergymen of both denominations [Protestant and Catholic] ... questions of the practical, ethical demands of Christianity. Nothing else; for that alone we are condemned.... I just wept a little, not because I was sad or melancholy ... but because I am thankful and moved by this proof of God's presence."^[5]

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_James_Graf_von_Moltke}

 

 

Alfred Delp wrote of what transpired with Moltke:

 

The trial continued the next day, with Moltke and Gerstenmaier as the defendants.  as a gesture of courtesy to Moltke's wife, who had asked Freisler personally that her husband be allowed to sit because of his painful sciatica, the judge had a chair provided for him.  And then, according to Milteke's account, Friesler proceeded to pour invective: Defeatism! Planning a future Germany constitution! High Treason!  Finally came Moltke's most damning activity of all, consorting with Jesuits and with bishops:

 

"A Jesuit Father, and with him of all people you discuss questions of civil disobedience!  And you know the Jesuit Provincial too!.... A Jesuit Provincial, one of the highest officials of Germany's most dangerous enemies...And you're not ashamed of it!  No German would touch a Jesuit with a barge-pole!... If I know there is a Jesuit Provincial in a town, it is almost a reason for me not to go to that town!... And you visit bishops! What is your business with a bishop, with any bishop?"

 

 

Alfred Delp's crime was he a Catholic and a Jesuit:

 

Dear Brothers

 

Here I am at the parting of the ways and I must take the other road after all. The death sentence ha been passed and the atmosphere is so charged with enmity and hatred that no appeal has any hope of succeeding.

 

I thank the Society and my brothers for all their goodness and loyalty and help, especially during these last weeks.  I ask pardon for much that was untrue and unjust; and I beg that a little help and care may be given to my aged, sick parents.

 

The actual reason for my condemnation was that I happened to be, and chose to remain, a jesuit.  There is nothing to show that I had any connection with the attempt on Hitler's life, so I was acquitted on that count.... The rest of the accusations were far less serious and more factual.  There was one underlying theme - a Jesuit is a priori an enemy  and betrayer of the Reich.   Moltke was treated abominably as well because he was associated with us, especially with Rosch. So the whole proceedings turned into a sort of comedy developing a theme.  It was not justice - it was simply the carrying out of the determination to destroy.

 

 

 

Good people, 

 

Well, so now I'm going down the other road. Whatever God wills. Let it all be done and given over into his freedom and goodness.

 

May God reward you for all your kindness and love.  That was no court of law, but rather an orgey of hate....

 

The incriminating points in the initial charge didn't stand.

 

The way the trial was carried out has provided my life with its true life-and-death purpose.  The grounds for the charge that came up at the trial boiled down to the following four incriminations

 

1. Thinking about a future for Germany after a possible defeat 

 

2. The incompatibility between Nazism and Christianity. Thus my thinking was false and dangerous, because it was based on this conviciton (the "re-Christianizing idea" that they've accused Moltke of is an "attack against Germany").

 

3. The Society of Jesus is a treat and any Jesuit is a degenerate.  We're fundamentally an enemy of Germany.

 

4. Catholic teaching on iustitia socialis [social justice] as the basis for a future socialism.

 

 

 

 

As I read in his letters his unwavering faith in God through the long days of loneliness, deprivation, not knowing each day if it would be his last or if by some miracle he would be set free,  yielding everything in total, sweet surrender to God, tears began to fall from my eyes. 

 

 

A fellow prisoner who worked as a helper to the Catholic chaplain Peter Buchholz arranged for him to receive communion.  When the prisoner visited Delp afterwards, he saw a physical wreck of a man, his face pale and emaciated, his eyes sunken.  He asked whether Delp would like something to read.  Delp asked for The Imitation of Christ.

 

Two more days of waiting.  One afternoon of Friday, February 2, the feast of Purification and a traditional day for Jesuits to make their vows, Buchholz was told that Delp would soon be executed.  The chaplain went to cell 317.  Inside, Delp, weakened from fear, struggle against despair, and a six-month preparation for death, still wondered if there might be hope of being saved from the rope.  Could the Russian troops not get to Berlin in the next few minutes? Could history not run faster?  Buchholz had no answer. Delp's gaunt face then lit up with the playful smile of a child.

 

 "In half an  hour," he said, "I will know more than you do."

 

The execution building was a short distance away.  Walking upright, shoulders squared, and wearing the wooden shoes given to those about to be executed, Delp was led to the door of the building at about three o'clock in the afternoon.  The execution formula was read out:  "You have been sentenced by the People's Court to death by hanging.  Executioner, do your duty."  The usual Plotzensee procedure was then no doubt followed: he ws led foward, stripped to the  wawist, and guided under one of the hooks along a bar under the ceiling. The executioner, as likely as not, fortified with brandy, placed a rope around his neck and hoisted him up. His prison pants were yanked off and his naked body struggled and twitched, then slackened, then became still.  The executioner made his routine pronouncement: "The sentence has been carried out."   Elsewhere in the prison, the form on which he had signed over his clothes was pulled from a pile and the date stamped in:  2 Feb,. 1945.

 

"for the glory of your name may we be mercifully set free."

 

 

The bodies of condemened prisoners of Plotzensee were customarily burned; orders had been given after July 20 that the ashes f those implicatedin the assassination plot be strewn over the sewage waste. No record exist of exactly what happened to Delp's cremated remains, and it is presumed that they were disposed of in the same way as the ashes of all the others.

 

Later, a pair of broken eyeglasses, a rosary, and a copy of The Imitation of Christ were found in cell 317.

 

 

 

 

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=7nzqvhGHcd8C&pg=PA180&lpg=PA180&dq=%22heresy+against+the+third+reich%22&source=bl&ots=dHtMFijyOr&sig=w6gAtK8KokPSVNfwp8_Drzi4Cec&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMI2frlhNiMxwIVzhGSCh2Hjgvd#v=onepage&q=%22heresy%20against%20the%20third%20reich%22&f=false

 

 

A postscript:

 

Then, on the following day, February 3, the air-raid siren sounded just as another trial was beginning in the People's Court.  as Freisler scrambled down the stairs, clutching the defendant's file, the building received a direct hit.  The ceiling caved in and a beam fell on Freisler, crushing his skull.

[thereselittleflower]

Jeff I knew  your heart would be hardened.   I pray God softens your heart and gives you eyes to see the faith of those you ridicule and condemn.