The rapture and the first resurrection.

[Watching for Jesus]

The Rapture is the taking away of the church from the world at the beginning (or middle, or end) of tribulation.   Revelation 3 says the faithful church will be saved from the trial which is to come upon the whole world, so I favor pre or mid trib

 

 

Revelation 19 and 20 is the source for the following

 

After the tribulation is the Coming of Christ, and then the 1000 year reign of Jesus and the martyrs of the tribulation.  Followed by the final battle, Armegeddon

 

During this time we will be rocking on streets of gold in heaven with God....but we will not have our bodies yet

 

THEN  at the end of all things is the Resurrection of the Saved and Judgment day for the lost

 

 

and then Revelation 21

 

The New Heaven and the New Earth.......and eternity with Christ

 

 

Hi Riverwalker,

 

I agree with you that the rapture is the gathering of the believers to Christ, at some point in time, and that the return of Jesus on the white horses will be to start His 1,000 year reign.  I also agree that we will not get our glorified bodies at the rapture, but at the resurrection.  I believe we will get a spiritual body at the rapture.

 

Does that mean you are saying that the rapture is not a resurrection?  Or do you believe the rapture is one part (or stage) of the first resurrection, as some say?

 

Jeff

Edited July 15, 2015 by Watching for Jesus

[Ezra]

 

 

I would like to hear opinions on the following question.

 

Are the rapture and the first resurrection the same event or two separate events separated by a period of time?

 

Jeff

We need to view the first resurrection as the term which applies to the righteous dead.  The second resurrection applies to the unrighteous dead.

 

The first resurrection is similar to a Jewish harvest with (1) the firstfruits, (2) the harvest and (3) the gleanings.  Christ is the firstfruits, the saints at the Rapture are the main harvest, and the Tribulation saints are the gleanings (1 Cor 15:23,24).

 

The Rapture is distinct from the Second Coming of Christ. At the Rapture He comes FOR His saints, but at His Second Coming Christ comes WITH His saints (Jude 14,15):  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

 

 

Hi Ezra,

 

So, do you believe (as I do) that the rapture takes place first (before the marriage of the Lamb), and that the first resurrection takes place at a later time (after the marriage of the Lamb)?

 

Jeff

 

 

Before I answer that question it is interesting to note that only John and only Revelation 20 speak of "the first resurrection".  The reason for this is because the second resurrection is also found in Rev 20. Thus John says Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.  The second death is connected to the second resurrection, and those who are raised in the first resurrection (the saints) cannot be subject to the second death.

 

The first resurrection is a series of resurrections with Christ as the firstfruits.  A gap of over 2,000 years will bring us to the harvest (before the marriage of the Lamb).  A further gap of at least seven years will bring us to the gleanings (after the marriage of the Lamb).

[Bible2]

Watching for Jesus said in post 1:

 

Are the rapture and the first resurrection the same event or two separate events separated by a period of time?

 

Both will occur at the 2nd coming, the resurrection occurring right before the rapture (the catching up together) (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

 

Also, Revelation 20:4-6 doesn't mean (as is sometimes claimed) that only those people in the church who will be beheaded by the Antichrist will be resurrected in the 1st resurrection and reign with Jesus during the millennium. For the 1st resurrection will be the physical resurrection of the dead of the entire church (of all times) at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). And every obedient person in the church (of all times) will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10).

 

Also, Revelation 20:4-6 doesn't mean that the 1st resurrection will happen sometime after Revelation 19:7 to 20:3. For just as the gathering together (rapture) of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:30-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) will happen right before Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, so will the 1st resurrection. For the resurrection of the church (of all times) at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52) will immediately precede the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

 

Revelation 20:4-6 simply means that the obedient part of the church (of all times), which by that time will have already been resurrected, gathered together, and married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7), will then live and reign with him on the earth during the millennium. In Revelation 20:4, the original Greek word (zao: G2198) translated as "and they lived" means just that. It doesn't mean "and they resurrected" at the time of Revelation 20:4-6. After those resurrected in the 1st resurrection have lived through the millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), everyone else who has ever died will be resurrected in a 2nd resurrection, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

 

--

 

Watching for Jesus said in post 8:

 

Do you see the second coming occurring before the marriage of the Lamb or after?  Or simultaneous?

 

The 10-virgins parable (Matthew 25:1-13) shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), just like Revelation 19:7 shows that the marriage won't occur until after the (never fulfilled) tribulation, shown in Revelation chapters 6 to 18. The parable's extra oil (Matthew 25:4,9b) could represent the continued good works of believers, by which they will be able to pass the judgment of the church by Jesus (Matthew 25:19-30, Romans 2:6-8) and enter the marriage of the church to Jesus at his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:10, Revelation 19:7-21).

 

The marriage supper (Revelation 19:9) won't have yet begun by the time of Revelation 19, which won't begin until after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (cf. Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). For regarding the church, the marriage supper will be a literal feast in the earthly Jerusalem after the resurrection and marriage of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54). While the church will enjoy a feast "of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined" (Isaiah 25:6), the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's armies defeated by Jesus' at his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:17-21).

 

Also, regarding the 10-virgins parable, in Matthew 25:6 "midnight" could represent mid-tribulation, when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) could be set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). So when it says "at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh" (Matthew 25:6), this could mean that at the mid-tribulation point when the abomination of desolation is set up, the church will be given the knowledge of the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' 2nd coming. This date could be the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, cf. Revelation 16:15).

 

--

 

Watching for Jesus said in post 11:

 

I believe we will get a spiritual body at the rapture.

 

By "spiritual" do you mean non-physical? If so, when obedient believers' bodies will be raised/resurrected into spiritual/heavenly bodies (1 Corinthians 15:44-49), they will still be fleshly bodies, but no longer "natural" (i.e. no longer mortal) fleshly bodies (1 Corinthians 15:44,53). Instead, they will be immortal fleshly bodies like Jesus was raised/resurrected into on the 3rd day after his death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4,21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25), by the spiritual/heavenly power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11,23-25, Romans 1:4; 1 Corinthians 15:44).

[Bible2]

Alejandro84 said in post 5:

 

The first resurrection is spiritual by people who come to Faith in Jesus . . .

 

Note that while there is the non-physical resurrection of initial salvation (e.g. Ephesians 2:5-6), the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 will be physical (cf. Romans 8:23). For Revelation 20:5 says "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished", meaning that the 1st resurrection will be the same, physical type of resurrection as will occur sometime after the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:7-15). For not every dead person is going to be non-physically resurrected in the sense of becoming saved (Revelation 20:15), and Revelation 20:5 means that the rest of the dead (i.e. all the non-church dead of all times) will be resurrected in the same manner that the church will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, but the rest of the dead won't be resurrected until sometime after the 1,000 years.

 

Also, the 1st resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 will be physical because it won't occur until Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), and the resurrection of the church which will occur at Jesus' 2nd coming will be a physical resurrection, just like Jesus' physical resurrection on the 3rd day after his death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58, Philippians 3:20-21, Romans 8:23-25; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18).

[Bible2]

Ezra said in post 6:

 

The first resurrection is similar to a Jewish harvest with (1) the firstfruits, (2) the harvest and (3) the gleanings.  Christ is the firstfruits, the saints at the Rapture are the main harvest, and the Tribulation saints are the gleanings (1 Cor 15:23,24).

 

The 3 stages of a harvest are indeed firstfruits, main harvest, and gleaning, which can indeed typify 3 physical resurrections. But these can be: 1. the past, firstfruits physical resurrection of Jesus only (1 Corinthians 15:20,23); 2. the future physical resurrection of the entire church at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:23,52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which will occur immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31), and right before the millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6); and then 3. the physical resurrection at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), which will occur sometime after the millennium and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-15, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

 

Ezra said in post 6:

 

The Rapture is distinct from the Second Coming of Christ. At the Rapture He comes FOR His saints, but at His Second Coming Christ comes WITH His saints (Jude 14,15) . . .

 

Note that Jesus' coming FOR his saints and WITH his saints will occur at the same 2nd coming. For 1 Thessalonians 3:13 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 show that at Jesus' 2nd coming, the souls of all obedient dead believers of all times will be brought down from the 3rd heaven with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), and their souls will descend to the earth and their physical bodies will resurrect/rise from their graves (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Then they and all believers who will survive the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 on the earth (those who will still be "alive and remain") will be raptured up high into the air above the places all around the globe where they will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17a), and then they will be gathered together from the sky (the 1st heaven) all around the globe (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) to the one place in the sky where the returned Jesus will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17b), which will be right above Jerusalem, before he sets his feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5, Acts 1:11-12).

 

It is because of this 2nd-coming rapture into the sky, and then the gathering to where in the sky Jesus will be (and then the marriage of the obedient part of the church there to Jesus: Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), that the obedient part of the church will already be with Jesus when he subsequently descends from the sky (the 1st heaven) to the earth (Revelation 19:14, Revelation 17:14, Zechariah 14:5c,4).

[Bible2]

Riverwalker said in post 10:

 

Revelation 3 says the faithful church will be saved from the trial which is to come upon the whole world, so I favor pre or mid trib

 

Regarding Revelation 3, the 7 epistles to 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to 7 literal, first century AD local church congregations in 7 cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) (what is today western Turkey).

 

Revelation 3:10 meant that the literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) would be kept safe from a persecution which came upon all the Roman world during the time of the Roman emperor Domitian. For the apostle John saw his Revelation vision (Revelation 1:1) near the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), and Domitian persecuted the church toward the end of his reign. The righteous, literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) had to suffer and die in that persecution over a period of 10 literal days (Revelation 2:10).

 

The first century AD church in Philadelphia didn't have to be taken out of the world to be kept safe from (Greek: "ek") that persecution. For, as Jesus prayed for the church in general: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from (ek) the evil" (John 17:15,20). Also, the first century AD church in Philadelphia didn't have to be removed from time itself or from the earth in order to be kept from the "hour" (or the "time") of that persecution, just as, for example, a student in a classroom who has been excused from taking a test doesn't have to be removed from time itself or from the classroom in order to be excused from that time of testing. For he can be made to sit at his desk reading during that time, which won't be a time of testing for him.

 

Also, the first century AD persecution of Revelation 3:10 (and Revelation 2:10) was only "world"-wide in the sense of the Roman "world" (cf. Luke 2:1). So the subsequent reference to those on the "earth" in Revelation 3:10 should be understood as those Christians living on the earth during that time in the Roman empire, as opposed to those Christians who had already died and gone to heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23).

[missmuffet]

Question: "What is the first resurrection? What is the second resurrection?"

Answer:Daniel 12:2summarizes the two very different fates facing mankind: “Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Everyone will be raised from the dead, but not everyone will share the same destiny. The New Testament reveals the further detail of separate resurrections for the just and the unjust.

Revelation 20:4-6mentions a “first resurrection” and identifies those involved as “blessed and holy.” The second death (the lake of fire,Revelation 20:14) has no power over these individuals. The first resurrection, then, is the raising of all believers. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14) and the “resurrection of life” (John 5:29).

The first resurrection takes place in various stages. Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,”1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him. There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection. Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

Revelation 20:12-13identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God at thegreat white throne judgmentprior to being cast into the lake of fire. The second resurrection, then, is the raising of all unbelievers; the second resurrection is connected to the second death. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29).

The event which divides the first and second resurrections seems to be the millennial kingdom. The last of the righteous are raised to reign “with Christ a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4), but the “rest of the dead [that is, the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:5).

What great rejoicing will attend the first resurrection! What great anguish at the second! What a responsibility we have to share the Gospel! “And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire” (Jude 23).


Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/resurrection-first-second.html#ixzz3g4yBJ12C

[Bible2]

bopeep1909 quoted a website in post 17:

 

Daniel 12:2 summarizes the two very different fates facing mankind: “Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

 

Daniel 12:2 will occur at the church's physical resurrection at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which will occur immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), and before the millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). For some in the church will lose their salvation at Jesus' 2nd coming (e.g. Luke 12:45-46), so that their resurrection will be a resurrection "unto shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2), a "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29), because of such things as unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8).

 

Also, regarding the immediate context of Daniel 12:2:

 

Daniel 12:1 will occur right after the future, tribulation events of Daniel 11:15-45, and will include the very last part of the tribulation, when the surviving Jews in Jerusalem (who could have been protected by the 2 witnesses during the preceding 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign: Revelation 11:3-13, Revelation 13:5-18) will be attacked immediately before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). This final attack will be the time of Jacob's trouble, which the Jews will be saved from (Jeremiah 30:7) at the 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:5).

 

bopeep1909 quoted a website in post 17:

 

There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection.

 

The original Greek word (egeiro: G1453) translated as "arose" in Matthew 27:52 can refer to recently-dead people's bodies being resuscitated back to mortal life, like how Jesus "raised (egeiro)" the recently-dead Lazarus (John 12:1), who was one of Jesus' followers (John 11:11, cf. John 15:14), back to mortal life, by crying out with a loud voice (John 11:43-44). The dead saints who were raised sometime later when they heard Jesus cry out with a loud voice on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-52, John 5:25), and who came out of their graves after Jesus' physical resurrection (Matthew 27:53), could have also been recently-dead followers of Jesus. Their bodies were resuscitated back to mortal life, like happened with Lazarus (John 12:1). For the resurrection of Jesus' followers into immortal physical bodies won't happen until his 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which won't happen until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

[Littlelambseativy]

The 1st resurrection and the rapture are for those who believe in Jesus, the Christ, have accepted Him as their Saviour and had their sins forgiven, washed in the blood of the Lamb.

The second resurrection is for those who lived righteously under the "law", as the OT saints, the martyrs of the Tribulation. All of these had and will have to keep the law since there will be no period of "grace" .

[Bible2]

Littlelambseativy said in post 19:

 

All of these had and will have to keep the law since there will be no period of "grace" .

 

Are you thinking of the idea of an end of an "age of grace"?

 

If so, regarding the present age (world) ending, note that nothing in verses like Ephesians 1:21b, Ephesians 1:10, Ephesians 3:2, Colossians 1:25, Titus 2:12b and Hebrews 6:5 says or requires that only the present age is an age of grace or a church age, or that the age to come won't also be an age of grace or a church age.

 

Also, the present age can include the future tribulation (Revelation chapters 6 to 18) and the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20), with the age to come being the subsequent time of the new earth (Revelation 21). For the end of the present age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-15).