The Third Temple

[WilliamL]

(edited and emphasis by BlindSeeker)

 ...when Jesus used this term in Matt. 24:15, his disciples knew of what kind of event he was referring: a false deity "standing in the Holy Place," that is, the site of the Temple's ancient sanctuary. That holy place was on Mount Moriah, aka the Temple Mount, to which Dan. 11:45 refers.

 Perhaps the most popular reason for many people so grossly misinterpreting the words of Jesus in quoted in Matthew 24 is because of their assumption that "His disciples knew" certain things which scripture actually proves to the contrary.

[long spiel]

 

 

...Now, are we really to believe that the disciples who knew nothing of Jesus’ death and resurrection or His heavenly Kingdom were able to ask Jesus about His second coming and the end of the world?

No, they were asking about His coming to power and the end of Roman rule over Israel. So it would be wise to be careful how one  exegesis passages of scriptures concerning Jesus answers to people who clearly did not have the presence of mind to ask the questions people assumed they were asking, or to say at any point prior to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon them that “the disciples knew” anything correctly.

And here all I was talking about was the term "abomination of desolation," which term his disciples knew from the book of Daniel, and from their knowledge of the AD committed by Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC. Did I mention anything about their understanding of anything else? No. So please don't imply that I did.

It is evident that all you were “talking about was the term ‘abomination of desolation,’” but I was talking about more than that. That’s what people do on forums and why they participate in them.

... I would have thought you would have both appreciated my presentation and clearly understood my point, rather than reacting to it and insinuating it was nothing more than a “long spiel” of little significance.

...I readily admit that I do tend to be thorough in my thought process and presentations, that’s just who and how I am. So if my posts are too long for you then perhaps it is best you skip over them. But in truth nowhere in my last post did I address you personally WilliamL.

spiel: A lengthy or extravagant speech or argument usually intended to persuade.

I in no wise insinuated your post was "of little significance." It WAS way off the mark, because most of your 'spiel' did not significantly relate to the topic of this string. The points you made were accurate but misplaced, because they diverted the discussion. You are welcome to begin another string to discuss your topic.

As far as your not addressing me, mine was the only post you quoted, so I do consider that addressing me.

[BlindSeeker]

 spiel: A lengthy or extravagant speech or argument usually intended to persuade.

I in no wise insinuated your post was "of little significance." It WAS way off the mark, because most of your 'spiel' did not significantly relate to the topic of this string. The points you made were accurate but misplaced, because they diverted the discussion. You are welcome to begin another string to discuss your topic.

Here's another definition....

spiel - noun: a long or fast speech or story, typically one intended as a means of persuasion or as an excuse but regarded with skepticism or contempt by those who hear it.

 As far as your not addressing me, mine was the only post you quoted, so I do consider that addressing me.

If you check the duration of my membership to worthy you will find that I only visit here occasionally. The reason being is it seems the "most learned" are the ones with the least patience and temperance and the quickest to presumptuous insecurity when others respond outside their comfort zone.

So once again as I have already stated, I meant no offense and I am truly sorry if my comment turn it away from the direction you felt it needed to stay on.

Stay blessable.

 

[WilliamL]

If you check the duration of my membership to worthy you will find that I only visit here occasionally. The reason being is it seems the "most learned" are the ones with the least patience and temperance and the quickest to presumptuous insecurity when others respond outside their comfort zone.

Ah so. Old Chinese saying: one must have thick skin to discuss Bible doctrine online.

[BlindSeeker]

If you check the duration of my membership to worthy you will find that I only visit here occasionally. The reason being is it seems the "most learned" are the ones with the least patience and temperance and the quickest to presumptuous insecurity when others respond outside their comfort zone.

Ah so. Old Chinese saying: one must have thick skin to discuss Bible doctrine online.

Not really, just an open heart and a love for the truth and others.... for when laboring in the things of God thick skin is something that must be avoided, for as it is in the natural, so it is in the spiritual. Thick skin is most often a pachydermatous condition that forms in order to desensitize one from the work they do or the path they travel. I wouldn't recommend it for a true Christian who needs to be able to be touched by another's infirmities.

However concerning the things of the Lord, one needs to be able to recognise they are laboring in vain and cease before they do develop a thick skin and can no longer speak the truth in love or season their speech with grace so as to edify the hearers.

Peace.

 

[JohnD]

 

Your interpretation of 1 John 2:18 misses entirely the point that the false messiah who goes by many descriptions (not just the Greek for false messiah antichristos) is a personal individual with satanic indwelling and will come in the end time of the last days to mislead the world.

Exactly.  There is so much spiritual confusion (and irrelevance) on this thread that it would be impossible to address each point. There is a prophecy regarding THE MAN OF SIN who will sit IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD and call himself "GOD", written just before the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Since there is no Temple in Jerusalem at this time, and since Paul was writing with the full knowledge of the prophecies of Christ (including that of the Abomination of Desolation) one has to do a great deal of violence to Scripture in order to "spiritualize" away everything and then talk about the Church  being the Temple of the Holy Spirit (totally irrelevant).  The Third Temple will become a reality and will then be replaced by the Fourth Temple (the true Temple).

I really liked this post, Ezra! Too bad we can only "like" it once. I do have a question about your very last point (fourth temple). Can you share what scriptures lead you to believe there will be a fourth temple?

Personally I assumed there would be a fourth temple (one after the "tribulation temple" obviously) until I found myself hard pressed to find in scripture that the "tribulation temple" will be destroyed. If you can find the scripture(s), please enlighten me! 

Otherwise, it appears the Bible teaches that the millennial temple will be the (cleansed) tribulation temple. 

Again, I am open to what the Word of God says.

Blessings.

[JohnD]

one has to do a great deal of violence to Scripture in order to "spiritualize" away everything and then talk about the Church  being the Temple of the Holy Spirit (totally irrelevant).

Not totally irrelevant, just requires discernment.  Let the reader understand.

Whose discernment?

2 Peter 1:20–21 (NASB95)

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

[JohnD]

Is the third temple the one that the antichrist will take over. Is that going to start. How long do you think it will take to build.

First of all show us from scripture where John says that their will be a single entity called the "Antichristos."  There is none. Antichristos is a word that is both singular and plural like deer and sheep in English. It's up to the translator how it is used. You cannot do it because it is simply not there. There is no 21st+ century boogeyman known as "Antichrist." Start at the beginning will you - and don't just parrot what others say.

Second, the temple of Ezekiel is a symbolic picture of the New Covenant Church couched in symbols that could be understood by the people to whom it was directly written to - the first century Christians. It already has been built by the suffering of Jesus.

Your interpretation of 1 John 2:18 misses entirely the point that the false messiah who goes by many descriptions (not just the Greek for false messiah antichristos) is a personal individual with satanic indwelling and will come in the end time of the last days to mislead the world. 

1 John 2:18 (AV)

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 (AV)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 (AV)

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Matthew 24:24 (AV)

24 For there shall arise false Christs*, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

*pseudochristos (which as you pointed out can be interpreted to be one)

Revelation 13:1–5 (AV)

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Zechariah 11:17 (AV)

17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Daniel 9:27 (AV)

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 12:11–12 (AV)

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

You should do research on Adso of Montier-en-Der and his “Letter to Queen Gerberga on the Place and Time of Antichrist,” which became known as the “Little Book on the Antichrist.” He was a Catholic monk who penned this as a rebuttal against the true believers who rejected catholicism and recognised the position of the papacy as that of a liar and false apostle, and the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 3-4 as "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition." Only two places "son of perdition" is used in scriptures, both addressing false apostles. For even though Jesus selected Judas, he had a devil and was not a true apostle of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It is only within the last 100-120 years that protestant churches have abandoned their awareness of Paul's words being fulfilled in this Mother of Harlot religious system with its false apostle and prophet and has embraced this idiot-ology birth by the harlot system itself to resist the truth. Why?

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

2 Timothy 4:1 -  I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Likewise, the other verses you've posted have sound biblical answers to them as well. Especially Daniel 9:27 which has literally been corrupted from what the majority of non-catholic believers have understood and taught for hundreds of years. Sadly though the seduction of Christianity has resulted in a reduction of most "believers" ability nowadays to endure the rigours of proving all things. Many of them will never find the truth since they are pathetically too lazy to truly seek it. Instead at best they can only regurgitate what they have been taught and are convinced that they could not possibly be wrong but are possessors of the truth and everyone else has to be wrong. They have learned to prejudicially read scriptures in the light of their theology and have no clue how to properly examine their theology in the light of the scriptures. When put to a thorough cross-examination they quickly get frustrated if the answers they are presented with are more than a tweet long or requires them to take more than 5-10 minutes of web searching to find other like-minded opinions to assure them they are still correct when they have been scripturally challenged. Such will hang their heads in shame when reproved of the Lord for their slothfulness and arrogance of theology.

2 Peter 1:20–21 (NASB95)

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Detractors from what the Bible has to says about the Bible (especially fro outside sources, human reasoning, and who champion traditional entities Catholic, Protestant or otherwise) do not interest me in the least. 

[JohnD]

He will not take over the temple, he will build the temple as a sign to the Jews who are looking for this attribute in a messiah.

where do you find this in scripture: "he (Antichrist) will build the temple"? Do you see this as being the only way to fulfill the "Antichrist/3rd temple/Abomination that causes desolation" event? The logic here seems to be a man-made theory in order to fulfill a misunderstood prophecy.

Okay, get your Bible out and put your thinking cap on...

Here goes...

Revelation 13:18 (NASB95)

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

666 is only in 3 other places in scripture:

Ezra 2:13 (NASB95)

13 the sons of Adonikam, 666;

1 Kings 10:14 (NASB95)

14 Now the weight of gold which came in to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold,

2 Chronicles 9:13 (NASB95)

13 Now the weight of gold which came to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold,

By the next census there was an addition to the clan of Adonikam:

Nehemiah 7:18 (NASB95)

18 the sons of Adonikam, 667;

Which means there is a prophetic sign / point in Ezra 2:13 but not to get carried away with it (as if this were the tribe and clan the beast would come from). 

The name itself hearkens to Revelation 13:3 since the name Adonikam (adonai qum) means "risen lord."  And this will be a sign in Revelation 13:3-4 that will make the world fall for him and fall in step with whatever he decrees.

Solomon (whose name is Shlomo / peace) is mentioned 2 of the 4 times 666 is found in scripture. 

The tribe of Dan has received the prophetic backhand of scripture because it was the first tribe to go into idolatry. King Solomon was the builder of the first Jewish Temple. He was also the first King to lead Israel into idolatry (to the point that were it not for David, God would have stripped half the Kingdom from Solomon see 1 Kings 11:11-13). God did so, but during the reign of Solomon's son.

There is also an ongoing debate about whether or not God actually commissioned Solomon to build that temple (God conceded to deal with Israel through the Temple that Solomon built on the insistence of David, but God meant the Messiah would build a living house of believers themselves for him compare 2 Samuel 7:12-13 with Zechariah 6:12-13, Matthew 16:18, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 1 Peter 2:3-9). I make mention of it not to derail this answer to the question mevosper asked, but to further show the bible (if this interpretation of all of the verses I mention is correct) the temple itself is a concession of God (the same way the Jewish monarchy was read 1 Samuel 8) in the first place. And that Israel was seldom in God's good standing for any length of time after either the monarchy or the temple was built.

continued...

Most Jews who reject Jesus as the Messiah are still looking for a messiah to come. Being a temple builder is one aspect they are looking for in a messianic candidate. And given the current occupants of Temple Mount this would seem a supernatural undertaking. To say the least. That is, however, NOT a Biblical support of this interpretation but one outside of the Bible. 

A last indication that purpose of the prophetic sign 666 (aside from marking the followers of the beast) is regarding the building of the Jewish (tribulation) Temple is the calculation / counting aspect required in Revelation 13:18. Unbeknownst to General Titus in 70 CE, he was fulfilling prophecy when he made the point to destroy the Jewish temple on the precise same calendar date that Nebuchadnezzar had destroyed the original Jewish Temple (on the Hebrew calendar the 9th day of the month of Av). Using the 360 day prophetic year, the interval between those two dates is precisely 666 years.

Does all this indicate that Solomon will come back from the dead as the beast?

No. The Bible has already revealed who that individual will be. And it ain't Solomon.

Just briefly:

2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 (NASB95)

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

John 17:12 (NASB95)

12 “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

Perdition / destruction are the same word in Greek (see KJV):

684 ἀπώλεια [apoleia /ap·o·li·a/] n f. From a presumed derivative of 622; TDNT 1:396; TDNTA 67; GK 724; 20 occurrences; AV translates as “perdition” eight times, “destruction” five times, “waste” twice, “damnable” once, “to die + 1519” once, “perish + 1498 + 1519” once, and “pernicious” once. 1 destroying, utter destruction. 1A of vessels. 2 a perishing, ruin, destruction. 2A of money. 2B the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell.

John 17:12 (AV)

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Who went to "his own place" in his death (Acts 1:25) after being the only individual the Bible indicated (in two verses) that Satan actually entered / possessed (Luke 22:3, John 13:26-27). 

There's more but this should suffice to indicate it will not actually be Solomon who is the beast that comes from grave.

And hopefully this has adequately answered your question.

Edited October 24, 2015 by JohnD

[Ezra]

Personally I assumed there would be a fourth temple (one after the "tribulation temple" obviously) until I found myself hard pressed to find in scripture that the "tribulation temple" will be destroyed. If you can find the scripture(s), please enlighten me!

We need to begin with the fact that when the Antichrist sets up the image of the Beast in the Temple at Jerusalem, it immediately becomes “the Abomination of Desolation” (Mt 24:15). So what does “desolation” mean? 

Strong's Concordance

erémósis: a making desolate

Original Word: ἐρήμωσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: erémósis
Phonetic Spelling: (er-ay'-mo-sis)
Short Definition: desolation, devastation
Definition: a desolation, devastation.

HELPS Word-studies

2050 erḗmōsis (from 2049 /erēmóō, "lay waste, make destitute, barren") –desolation(desecration) that results from being cut off (isolated).

Will Jerusalem be devastated and laid waste because of the enormous blasphemy of worshiping Satan as God (2 Thess 2:4)?  The answer is found in Revelation 11:12,13, which tells us that when the two witnesses of God are taken up to Heaven, there is a great earthquake which destroys a tenth part of the city of Jerusalem. We can only surmise that the desecrated and abominable Temple is destroyed in that earthquake, and if not then under the 7^th vial judgement, where “the great city” is Jerusalem (as believed by many commentators), which is  distinct from “great Babylon” (Rev 16:18-20):

 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.  And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

 As to the Millennial Temple, we have considerable information in the book of
Ezekiel.

[mevosper]

He will not take over the temple, he will build the temple as a sign to the Jews who are looking for this attribute in a messiah.

where do you find this in scripture: "he (Antichrist) will build the temple"? Do you see this as being the only way to fulfill the "Antichrist/3rd temple/Abomination that causes desolation" event? The logic here seems to be a man-made theory in order to fulfill a misunderstood prophecy.

Okay, get your Bible out and put your thinking cap on...

Here goes...

 

Seems like an awful lot of biblical "gymnastics" in your thought process. 

You are missing these 3 points:

1 Cor 3:16 - our bodies are the temple

Luke 17:20 - 21 - the kingdom of God is within you

Eze 45 - Shows the holy place for the sanctuary is not located in the city of Jerusalem. 

Edited October 25, 2015 by mevosper