What is the next sign to come?

[Sister]

 

There is not enough time to understand all the interpretations of the whole bible, but there is enough time to understand what is coming to the Christian world and what we have to endure in order to not lose our souls to the enemy.

 

Sister,

There is no need to add more confusion to a world already full of spiritual confusion.  Christians DO NOT have to endure in order to not lose their souls to the enemy.  Those who are genuine children of God remain so eternally by God's grace and power.  They do not earn or merit their salvation, which is purely a gift of God's grace (Eph 2:8,9).

 

Ezra

 

I couldn't address these points yesterday as I was on my way out, so I'll start addressing this one for now.

 

You said;

Christians DO NOT have to endure in order to not lose their souls to the enemy.

 

 

This is what Jesus said;

 

 Matthew 10:22   And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

  Matthew 24:13   But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

And in other chapters;

 

Hebrews 12:2   Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

2 Thessalonians 1:4   So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

2 Timothy 2:3   Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

 

Hebrews 6:15   And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

 

 James 1:12   Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

  James 5:11   Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

 

 1 Peter 2:19   For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

 

 

Why?  Because of this;

  Mark 4:17   And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

 

 

Hebrews 12:7   If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

 

There's all types of enduring....So we have to endure them all to the end (of our lives)....what ever is thrown at us is to exercise us, & strengthen us.

What I was specifically talking about is to endure through the hard times that are coming, to face it, and not give up.....To go through whatever God has put before us, to be strong even until death.  We, the living, are at the end of all the generations before Christ returns.  We must endure as well as those who went before us. 

 

We must be armoured with truth in order to not be decieved.  We know what's coming, and we are not in the dark.

[Bible2]

thereselittleflower said in post 9:

 

Jesus is answering TWO  questions in this discourse.  Not one.

 

The first question concerns Jesus' prediction of the destruction of the temple

 

Note that the end of the 2nd temple building (also called Herod's temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring only to the single, 2nd temple building which stood in the center of the Temple Mount and which contained the holy place and the most holy place, but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

 

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).

[Bible2]

Sister said in post 11:

 

What I was specifically talking about is to endure through the hard times that are coming, to face it, and not give up.....To go through whatever God has put before us, to be strong even until death.

 

Amen! (God help us)

 

For Job should be looked to by obedient Christians as an example of patient endurance through suffering (James 5:11). Just as God allowed Satan to bring suffering to righteous Job (Job chapters 1-2), so God sometimes allows Satan to bring suffering to obedient Christians (Revelation 2:10). And during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Satan will be allowed to unleash his wrath against obedient Christians in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

 

By the power of Satan working against Job (Job 1:12), he first suffered the loss of his wealth and servants from murderous robbers (Job 1:14,15,17) and a natural disaster (Job 1:16), and suffered the death of all his children in a natural disaster (Job 1:18-19). Then, again by the power of Satan working against him (Job 2:6), Job suffered the loss of his health (Job 2:7). But he remained patient through all of his loss and suffering, never cursing God because of it (Job 2:9-10, Job 1:20-22), but wholly trusting in God through it all (Job 13:15).

 

Because of this, God greatly rewarded Job after his suffering was over, giving him twice as much wealth as he had before (Job 42:10,12, Job 1:3) and the same number of children as he had before (Job 42:13, Job 1:2), and giving him a very long life (Job 42:16), so that he lived to see his grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren (Job 42:16). While he was still suffering, Job mistakenly thought his suffering was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11), when in fact God had no wrath against him, for he was righteous in God's eyes (Job 1:1,8, Job 2:3). Instead, Job was suffering from the hand of Satan (Job 1:12, Job 2:7). Similarly, during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the suffering of obedient Christians won't be God's wrath against them, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:9,17, cf. Revelation 2:10).

 

God allowed Satan to bring loss and suffering to Job in order to prove that Job didn't love God just because God had made him wealthy and secure (Job 1:9-12) and healthy (Job 2:4-6), but that Job would continue to love and trust God even if all his wealth, family, and health were stripped away from him. Indeed, Job would have continued to love God even if God had killed him (Job 13:15). This is the kind of love for God that Christians will need to have during the future tribulation. They will need to continue to love God even when he allows Satan (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") to make war against Biblical Christians and physically overcome them in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13), stripping away all their wealth and family and leading them away to be beheaded (Revelation 20:4-6). Christians must so love God and so trust him that they have no fear of suffering or death (Revelation 2:10, Hebrews 2:15), knowing that even death will only bring their still-conscious souls into the presence of Jesus in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43). 

 

Christians mustn't love their mortal lives to where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep from getting killed (Mark 8:35-38, John 12:25, Revelation 12:11), just as Christians mustn't love their families to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their families from starving or getting killed (Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26). And Christians mustn't love their wealth to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their wealth from being taken away (Matthew 6:24; 1 Timothy 6:9-10). Jesus Christ requires Christians to forsake everything, even their own lives, for his sake (Luke 14:33, Luke 9:23, Matthew 10:38-39), just as he forsook everything, even his own life, for their sake (Philippians 2:6-8; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 1 Corinthians 15:3).

 

"Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy" (1 Peter 4:12-13).

[thereselittleflower]

 

thereselittleflower said in post 9:

 

Jesus is answering TWO  questions in this discourse.  Not one.

 

The first question concerns Jesus' prediction of the destruction of the temple

 

Note that the end of the 2nd temple building (also called Herod's temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring only to the single, 2nd temple building which stood in the center of the Temple Mount and which contained the holy place and the most holy place, but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

 

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).

 

 

 

You might not be aware of this but  the wailing wall has stones added to it in two periods,  the courses of medium-sized stones were added during the Umayyad era, which is the Umayyad Caliphate  in the mid 7th century, and the small stones of the uppermost courses are of more recent date, especially from the Ottoman Period.  So if you notice, the very large stones from Herods temple are at the bottom of the wall -  they are much taller than a man.  The rest are smaller.   Additionally,   Jesus said:

 

“Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Mark 13:2

 

 

 

The wailing wall was not actually part of the temple itself, it was not a building, it was a retaining wall (most of which today is what has been built back up since 70AD). so yes, Jesus' prophecy was perfectly fulfilled in 70AD.    

[other one]

what is the next sign to come.......    well according to my gps it's "exit 172"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really I just made that up....

[Rev2015]

Hey Sister,

 

The next sign or events to come? We must watch for events specifically dealing with Israel. The tribulation period that is soon to come will be specifically dealing with Israel. A reread of Daniel should indicate this. The last 7 years to be determined on Daniel and his people have yet to take place. There are indications in scripture of several battles/wars that will take place in Israel's future. These wars will culminate with the battle of Ezekiel 38 and 39. This battle/war will escalate to a world event. Chapter 39 of Ezekiel tells us this battle takes place just prior to a 7 year period. I believe God is telling us this happens right before the tribulation years. Many believe the aftermath of the resurrection and rapture will trigger domestic anarchy world wide. I believe the event will be the nail in the coffin for the U.S. and will weaken it as never before, emboldening the attack on Israel as described in Ezekiel. I also believe with the U.S. domestically devastated by the rapture event, martial law will be declared. Imagine our nation wide interstate systems at a complete stop throughout the entire nation for all the wrecks that will take place when Christians are taken and now vehicles traveling at 70 MPH or better are now driver-less.

 

Also possible, when the Ezekiel battle takes place, and the U.S. is domestically in shambles, look for North Korea to attack South Korea, China may invade Taiwan, India and Pakistan could also go to war. All taking advantage of the U.S.A. plight. 

 

I also agree with your assessment with the 10 kings. They are manipulating these battles and wars from behind the scenes. They are Luciferians and have sided with him in his battle against God. They are the patriarchs of the world's wealthiest families who control the world's banking systems. The money exchangers, the same bunch Christ cleared from the temple mount.

 

Events in order, as I've studied.

 

1. Psalm 83, Israel battles the nations bordering her. This battle culminates with Isaiah 17, the destruction of Damascus, the water breaking, as Christ described these events as a woman giving birth. And once the water breaks.........

2. Resurrection and rapture, a future feast of trumpets, at the end of this day the last trump is blown and we are on our way out of here.

3. Ezekiel 38 and 39. The whole world goes to war. At the end the 10 kings come out of hiding with the planned covenant with many, their 3rd attempt of world government following a world war. Study the history of WWI and WWII and the attempts of creating a centralized world government that followed each. This is yet another secular attempt that is fulfilling God's prophecies of the covenant with many as foretold in Daniel.

[Sister]

inchrist. 

 

Thank you so much for bringing up this scripture.  I have had great pleasure in going over this chapter.

 

Egypt was the first kingdom.  Her gods, her treasures, her mysteries and all her beliefs have survived since the beginning. Till today her "spirit" is as powerful as ever, but spiritually desolate.  God is speaking of Spiritual Egypt.  All the nations have this spirit in them, even Jerusalem.  Israel was brought out of Egypt but returned to her spiritually.  God calls Jerusalem today Sodom and Egypt.

 

eg;

Revelation 11:8   And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

 

 Isaiah 19:1   The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
 

Egypt is rich with treasure, but spiritually she stands for material things and every thing that is an abomination. The world has this spirit of Egypt inside their hearts.  The love of money and greed is also an idol, whatever is first in our hearts is our first love, we will do anything for it.  At the coming, Christ will destroy "the spirit of Egypt" when he destroys Babylon because they are the same.

 

  Isaiah 19:2   And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.
 

The Egyptians against Egyptians is us, the world.  Kingdom against kingdom is not just Egypt but the whole world.

Now you know that when God is mentioning Egypt here, he is speaking of the spiritual side, .(and not that nation)..the spirit that came out of Egypt since the beginning of the kingdoms.  This is all from Satan of course.

The rest of the verses should be easier to understand now.

  Isaiah 19:3   And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.
God is interpreting for us, and making it clear that he is not speaking of Egypt the nation.  He is confirming "that spirit", and revealing the abominations.

 

  Isaiah 19:4   And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts.
The world is given into the hands of the False Prophet when he comes.  Not just Egypt, but is speaking of those "in Babylon" who will be ruled over by him. 

 

  Isaiah 19:5   And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
Waters and rivers are religions & beliefs....their beliefs and their hopes will be beaten... gone, and cannot save them.

 

  Isaiah 19:6   And they shall turn the rivers far away; and the brooks of defence shall be emptied and dried up: the reeds and flags shall wither.

  Isaiah 19:7   The paper reeds by the brooks, by the mouth of the brooks, and every thing sown by the brooks, shall wither, be driven away, and be no more.
All the writings and teachings that came out of the small streams will be no more also

 

  Isaiah 19:8   The fishers also shall mourn, and all they that cast angle into the brooks shall lament, and they that spread nets upon the waters shall languish.
There's nothing there now, no knowledge, nothing to trust in,...they realise it is also empty

  Isaiah 19:9   Moreover they that work in fine flax, and they that weave networks, shall be confounded.
The flax produces fine oil and also woven into fabrics.  This is commerce.  The rich and powerful take it all for themselves through networking.  They are not just networking business, but networking Kings, politicians, police, armies, networking laws  and lies..and .all for their own profit to suit their agenda, spreading it out to cover the earth.  When there's a large network it's very hard to see how it's all connected and who's at the top.  There are many many layers in their pyramid.

 

  Isaiah 19:10   And they shall be broken in the purposes thereof, all that make sluices and ponds for fish.
Those in control at the top are likened to a sliding gate used to control water.  These are responsible for all the false teachings for they control the gates.

 

  Isaiah 19:11   Surely the princes of Zoan are fools, the counsel of the wise counsellors of Pharaoh is become brutish: how say ye unto Pharaoh, I am the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings?
Zoan = Egypt.  The princes are the ones at the top (elites).  They think they are wise?, they claim their blood is royal and everyone beneath them.  They take all the riches of the earth for themselves because of greed and lust for power.

 

  Isaiah 19:12   Where are they? where are thy wise men? and let them tell thee now, and let them know what the LORD of hosts hath purposed upon Egypt.
They cannot be wise because they do not know what God is going to do to them. They have been greatly deceived.

 

  Isaiah 19:13   The princes of Zoan are become fools, the princes of Noph are deceived; they have also seduced Egypt, even they that are the stay of the tribes thereof.
 

  Isaiah 19:14   The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.
This perverse spirit is "the spirit of "Egypt" (spirit of the world, lust of the flesh)

 

  Isaiah 19:15   Neither shall there be any work for Egypt, which the head or tail, branch or rush, may do.
Babylon will be no more, there are no more jobs for her.

 

  Isaiah 19:16   In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which he shaketh over it.
Egypt (Babylon) will become as weak as a woman.

  Isaiah 19:17   And the land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt, every one that maketh mention thereof shall be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the LORD of hosts, which he hath determined against it.
The Land of Judah - Truth.  Egypt (Babylon) will be very afraid.

  Isaiah 19:18   In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
Out of every five cities in Babylon, one will be completely destroyed, ....no more.

There are going to be fewer nations existing.

 

  Isaiah 19:19   In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.
 

  Isaiah 19:20   And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.
We are in Babylon now, but we do not dwell in her, however, Babylon still oppresses the believers. Don't worry, the Lord hears our prayers, he will come for us.  We will be delivered from this place.

  Isaiah 19:21   And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.
 

  Isaiah 19:22   And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
Babylon will be punished first, then healed when Christ returns.  Not just Israel, but the gentile nations also.

  Isaiah 19:23   In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
The kingdoms borders will go right up to Assyria and down to Egypt.

 

  Isaiah 19:24   In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
All will be working as one in Serving the Lord.  Israel's old enemies will be serving them now, in serving the Lord.

 

  Isaiah 19:25   Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

God is going to completely change things around.

[Bible2]

thereselittleflower said in post 14:

 

The wailing wall was not actually part of the temple itself, it was not a building . . .

 

Note that in Matthew 24:1-2, the original Greek word (oikodome: G3619) translated as "buildings" includes "structures" in general (Strong's Greek Dictionary), which would include the temple's Wailing Wall, and not just structures which English speakers would consider to be "buildings".

 

Similarly, in Matthew 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-3, and Luke 21:5-6, the original Greek word (hieron: G2411) translated as "temple", as it is also used in Matthew 12:6, Luke 22:52, Acts 3:2,10, Acts 4:1, and Acts 5:24, can include "the entire precincts" of the temple (Strong's Greek Dictionary), which would include the temple's Wailing Wall.

 

Also, the most common use of the Greek word "oikodome" (G3619) in the New Testament isn't to refer only to a "building" in the literal English sense of that word. In fact, nothing requires that the word is ever used in that limited way in the New Testament. For Matthew 24:1, Mark 13:1, and Mark 13:2 can be using the word in the sense of any literal "edifice" (part of studylight.org's definition of oikodome). And the Wailing Wall can be referred to even in English as an "edifice". For in English an "edifice" can be any "large or massive structure" (Webster's English Dictionary), just as Strong's Greek Dictionary says that oikodome (G3619) can refer to any "structure", not just to "buildings" in the literal English sense of that word.

 

Similarly, Romans 14:19, Romans 15:2, 1 Corinthians 14:3,5,12,26, 2 Corinthians 10:8, 2 Corinthians 12:19, 2 Corinthians 13:10, and Ephesians 4:12,16,29 use the same Greek word oikodome (G3619) to refer not to any "buildings" in the literal English sense of that word, but to how Christians should spiritually "edify" one another.

 

And 1 Corinthians 3:9 and Ephesians 2:21 refer only to a figurative building made up of all believers together. And 2 Corinthians 5:1 refers only to a figurative building related to the individual body of each individual believer.

 

So not once in the New Testament do we find an instance where the Greek word oikodome (G3619) must be referring only to "buildings" in the literal English sense of that word.

[thereselittleflower]

 

thereselittleflower said in post 14:

 

The wailing wall was not actually part of the temple itself, it was not a building . . .

 

Note that in Matthew 24:1-2, the original Greek word (oikodome: G3619) translated as "buildings" includes "structures" in general (Strong's Greek Dictionary), which would include the temple's Wailing Wall, and not just structures which English speakers would consider to be "buildings".

 

Similarly, in Matthew 24:1-2, Mark 13:1-3, and Luke 21:5-6, the original Greek word (hieron: G2411) translated as "temple", as it is also used in Matthew 12:6, Luke 22:52, Acts 3:2,10, Acts 4:1, and Acts 5:24, can include "the entire precincts" of the temple (Strong's Greek Dictionary), which would include the temple's Wailing Wall.

 

Also, the most common use of the Greek word "oikodome" (G3619) in the New Testament isn't to refer only to a "building" in the literal English sense of that word. In fact, nothing requires that the word is ever used in that limited way in the New Testament. For Matthew 24:1, Mark 13:1, and Mark 13:2 can be using the word in the sense of any literal "edifice" (part of studylight.org's definition of oikodome). And the Wailing Wall can be referred to even in English as an "edifice". For in English an "edifice" can be any "large or massive structure" (Webster's English Dictionary), just as Strong's Greek Dictionary says that oikodome (G3619) can refer to any "structure", not just to "buildings" in the literal English sense of that word.

 

Similarly, Romans 14:19, Romans 15:2, 1 Corinthians 14:3,5,12,26, 2 Corinthians 10:8, 2 Corinthians 12:19, 2 Corinthians 13:10, and Ephesians 4:12,16,29 use the same Greek word oikodome (G3619) to refer not to any "buildings" in the literal English sense of that word, but to how Christians should spiritually "edify" one another.

 

And 1 Corinthians 3:9 and Ephesians 2:21 refer only to a figurative building made up of all believers together. And 2 Corinthians 5:1 refers only to a figurative building related to the individual body of each individual believer.

 

So not once in the New Testament do we find an instance where the Greek word oikodome (G3619) must be referring only to "buildings" in the literal English sense of that word.

 

 

And there is nothing requiring that the wailing wall was included.   Even if it was, it was torn down  and what we see today is the wall rebuilt in two stages.

 

Additionally, it seems the wailing wall was not actually part of the temple mount itself

 

The Western Wall – or Wailing Wall - is a remnant of the ancient wall that surrounded the Jewish Temple's courtyard,  located in the Old City of Jerusalem at the foot of the western side of the Temple Mount.

 

It is one of the most sacred sites in Judaism outside of the Temple Mount itself.

 

According to the Tanakh, Solomon's Temple was built atop the Temple Mount in the 10th century BC and destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

The Second Temple was completed and dedicated in 516 BC.

It is believed that more than half the current wall, including a large below current  street level, was constructed around 19 BC by Herod the Great as he launched a massive expansion of the temple.

The remaining layers were added from the 7th century onwards.

It has been a site for Jewish prayer and pilgrimage for centuries, the earliest source mentioning Jewish attachment to the site dating from the 4th century.

 

Additionally, it was not constructed by Herod at all.   

 

 

The history of one of the world's holiest sites - sacred to both Jews and Muslims - is set to be rewritten, following a surprise discovery in a ritual bath beneath the complex. 

 

It proves that the Wall - supposedly built by Herod, the Jewish king who features prominently in the Gospels, was in fact built much later. 

 

Newly found coins underneath Jerusalem’s Western Wall could change the accepted belief about the construction of one of the world’s most sacred sites two millennia ago, Israeli archaeologists said Wednesday.

 

But archaeologists with the Israel Antiquities Authority now say diggers have found coins underneath the massive foundation stones of the compound’s Western Wall that were stamped by a Roman proconsul 20 years after Herod’s death. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2065254/Coins-Jerusalems-Western-Wall-hints-sacred-site-older-Herod.html

 

 

So it is OUTSIDE the temple mount itself, so not part of it, and was built later than the temple.

 

What happened with this wall had nothing to do with Jesus' prophecy.

 

 

[Bible2]

thereselittleflower said in post 21:

 

And there is nothing requiring that the wailing wall was included.   Even if it was, it was torn down  and what we see today is the wall rebuilt in two stages.

 

Note that this is contradicted later in your post, where you quote:

 

"It is believed that more than half the current wall, including a large below current street level, was constructed around 19 BC by Herod the Great..."

 

thereselittleflower said in post 21:

 

The remaining layers were added from the 7th century onwards.

 

What is the proof of that? And how does it even effect the non-fulfillment of "not one stone" for the lower layer?

 

thereselittleflower said in post 21:

 

Additionally, it was not constructed by Herod at all.

 

Again, note that this is contradicted by your own quote above.

 

thereselittleflower said in post 21:

 

But archaeologists with the Israel Antiquities Authority now say diggers have found coins underneath the massive foundation stones of the compound’s Western Wall that were stamped by a Roman proconsul 20 years after Herod’s death.

 

Part of a treasure buried long after the wall was built?

 

And the wall was still built before Jesus spoke Matthew 24?

 

thereselittleflower said in post 21:

 

So it is OUTSIDE the temple mount itself, so not part of it, and was built later than the temple.

 

What happened with this wall had nothing to do with Jesus' prophecy.

 

Note that it held up the Temple Mount by the time Jesus spoke Matthew 24, and so was part of temple's "entire precincts" (see post #20 above).

 

Similarly, Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring only to the single, 2nd temple building which stood in the center of the Temple Mount and which contained the holy place and the most holy place, but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

 

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).