WHY is the Body of Christ `caught up?`

[Marilyn C]

Hi Rev2015,

 

Very good thoughts there bro. Now you did the `WHY,` in relation to Israel & the world, which I believe is correct. Now can you also think WHY, in relation to what Christ is doing with His Body? 

 

Marilyn.

[Bible2]

Rev2015 said in post 11:

 

There is no reason for believers to remain on the earth . . .

 

Note that the reason why the righteous church in all nations will have to remain on the earth during the future tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6) could be the same as the reason why righteous Job had to go through his suffering at the hands of Satan (Job chapters 1-2), and the reason why, for example, the righteous church of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) had to suffer and die in a 1st century persecution (Revelation 2:10).

 

Job should be looked to by obedient Christians as an example of patient endurance through suffering (James 5:11). Just as God allowed Satan to bring suffering to righteous Job (Job chapters 1-2), so God sometimes allows Satan to bring suffering to obedient Christians (Revelation 2:10). And during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Satan will be allowed to unleash his wrath against obedient Christians in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

 

By the power of Satan working against Job (Job 1:12), he first suffered the loss of his wealth and servants from murderous robbers (Job 1:14,15,17) and a natural disaster (Job 1:16), and suffered the death of all his children in a natural disaster (Job 1:18-19). Then, again by the power of Satan working against him (Job 2:6), Job suffered the loss of his health (Job 2:7). But he remained patient through all of his loss and suffering, never cursing God because of it (Job 2:9-10, Job 1:20-22), but wholly trusting in God through it all (Job 13:15).

 

Because of this, God greatly rewarded Job after his suffering was over, giving him twice as much wealth as he had before (Job 42:10,12, Job 1:3) and the same number of children as he had before (Job 42:13, Job 1:2), and giving him a very long life (Job 42:16), so that he lived to see his grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren (Job 42:16). While he was still suffering, Job mistakenly thought his suffering was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11), when in fact God had no wrath against him, for he was righteous in God's eyes (Job 1:1,8, Job 2:3). Instead, Job was suffering from the hand of Satan (Job 1:12, Job 2:7). Similarly, during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the suffering of obedient Christians won't be God's wrath against them, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:9,17, cf. Revelation 2:10).

 

God allowed Satan to bring loss and suffering to Job in order to prove that Job didn't love God just because God had made him wealthy and secure (Job 1:9-12) and healthy (Job 2:4-6), but that Job would continue to love and trust God even if all his wealth, family, and health were stripped away from him. Indeed, Job would have continued to love God even if God had killed him (Job 13:15). This is the kind of love for God that Christians will need to have during the future tribulation. They will need to continue to love God even when he allows Satan (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") to make war against Biblical Christians and physically overcome them in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13), stripping away all their wealth and family and leading them away to be beheaded (Revelation 20:4-6). Christians must so love God and so trust him that they have no fear of suffering or death (Revelation 2:10, Hebrews 2:15), knowing that even death will only bring their still-conscious souls into the presence of Jesus in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43). 

 

Christians mustn't love their mortal lives to where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep from getting killed (Mark 8:35-38, John 12:25, Revelation 12:11), just as Christians mustn't love their families to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their families from starving or getting killed (Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26). And Christians mustn't love their wealth to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their wealth from being taken away (Matthew 6:24; 1 Timothy 6:9-10). Jesus Christ requires Christians to forsake everything, even their own lives, for his sake (Luke 14:33, Luke 9:23, Matthew 10:38-39), just as he forsook everything, even his own life, for their sake (Philippians 2:6-8; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 1 Corinthians 15:3).

 

"Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy" (1 Peter 4:12-13).

 

Rev2015 said in post 11:

 

Paul meant for his words to be a comfort . . .

 

The comfort in 1 Thessalonians 4:18 is the comfort that the dead in Christ aren't lost, but their souls will come back from heaven with Jesus at his 2nd coming, and their physical bodies will be resurrected at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

Similarly, the comfort in 1 Thessalonians 5:11 applies to those in Christ no matter whether they live or die (1 Thessalonians 5:10-11).

 

Christians going through any tribulation are comforted by God even while they are going through that tribulation (2 Corinthians 1:3-7; 1 Peter 4:12-13). So Christians will be comforted by God even as they go through the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). They will be waiting for Jesus' 2nd coming and the rapture, which will occur immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

Revelation 14:12-13 is the same idea as 1 Thessalonians 5:10-11, meaning obedient believers can have the Spirit's comfort at any time (John 14:15-17), in any tribulation (2 Corinthians 1:4-7), no matter whether they live or die.

[Rev2015]

Hi Rev2015,

 

Very good thoughts there bro. Now you did the `WHY,` in relation to Israel & the world, which I believe is correct. Now can you also think WHY, in relation to what Christ is doing with His Body? 

 

Marilyn.

 

Hello Marilyn,

 

Well in my humbled un-dogmatic opinion, Christ is coming for his bride, this being anyone who ever believed in Him as Messiah or Christ. He first resurrects those who have died in Messiah/Christ then he raptures those of us alive who have accepted him as Lord and Savior. Again he is coming for His bride, those from the beginning of creation till the last trump, they are His, sealed as His property untouchable by The death. I can't believe that a groom would want His bride to go through the period of time known as the covenant with many. These 7 years will be the worst in history especially the last 3 ½ years as described by Christ in Matthew 24. Placing myself as a groom. If I could rescue my bride from a period of time as horrible as those 7 years will be, I’d do it in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, with a loud trumpet blast to let her know that I was here to take her way from what is to come. I surly, if I truly loved her, wouldn’t say, I’ll guess I’ll just wait and let her go through those troubled times, let her suffer with the lost, let her bare the tribulation of those days. In my thinking, what woman would want a groom like that. No, I don’t believe it to be so. Christ loves His bride, and I believe he is soon to come for us. I believe it will be on a future feast of trumpets.

[Last Daze]

Whatever purpose you arrive at must be in harmony with the details provided in scripture.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Rev2015,

 

That was so touching. You have a good caring heart that wants to protect. And that is what I also think that Christ, the Head of the Body feels for His Body. Thus when the `Head` of the Body comes close, we are drawn up by His love, which is the strongest power there is. We are caught up & even gravity cannot hold us down.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

After Rev2015 talked about the Lord`s great love for the believers, I thought can anyone show from God`s word WHY Christ comes for the Body at that particular moment?

 

Marilyn.

[Bible2]

Regarding why the church is "caught up" post-trib, see post #3 above.  (See also post #4 above, regarding why the mistaken pre-trib idea is dangerous.)

[Marilyn C]

There has been some interesting answers to the question of WHY the Body of Christ is `caught up.` Thank you to those who have taken the time to think & reply. Now I will write one of my answers which is from the Thessalonians verses. I will do it in a sequence.

 

1. THE FATHER`S THRONE.

 

Presently we know that Jesus is seated on His Father`s throne.

 

`He...sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.` (Heb. 1: 3)

Then at the predetermined time by the Father a door will be opened in heaven & God`s voice like a trumpet blast bids us welcome. `Come up here.` (Rev. 4: 1) I believe that John is representative of what will happen to the Body of Christ.

 

2. JESUS DESCENDS.

 

Jesus will then vacate His position on the Father`s throne & descend from heaven, to the clouds, with a shout, the voice of the archangel & the trumpet of God.

 

`For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, & with the trumpet of God.` (1 Thess. 4: 16)

 

3. WE ARE CHANGED.

 

The dead in Christ whose spirits come with Jesus from heaven will then connect with their earthly bodies in the graves & rise first to ground level in their new resurrected bodies.

 

`..God will bring with Him (Jesus) those who sleep in Jesus. .....And the dead in Christ will rise first.` (1 Thess. 14 & 16)

 

Then those alive in the Body of Christ will be changed also.

 

`...we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.....for this corruptible must put on incorruption, & this mortal must put on immortality.` (1 Cor. 15: 51 – 53)

 

4. THE ROYAL ESCORT TO JESUS` OWN THRONE.

 

We will then be caught up together with the resurrected dead to the clouds where we will meet with the Lord & escort Him back to the third heaven but this time to His own throne.

 

`Then we who are alive & remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.` (1 Thess. 4: 17)

To meet- Gk. `apantesis,` this word is used in connection to escorting a person to their destination.

 

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on My throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

 

Marilyn.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

Hi Last Daze,

 

I see you post got `lost,` in the recent glitch. However I thought I would still repost my reply.

I can see your reasoning, but had you thought of the following -

1. `They are Christ`s at His coming.` (1 Cor. 15: 23)

You said that `Consequently, it must be known who all belongs to Christ before He returns.` Do you mean that the world needs to know, or the believers need to know who belongs? The only one that needs to know is the Lord.

`”The Lord knows those who are His,” (2 Tim. 2: 19)

The Lord, the Head of the Body knows who are His & they are the ones whom He will `catch up,` to Himself. As believers are `set` in the Body by the Holy Spirit, then the Body will be intact, in the Holy Spirit & become physically joined to the Head at the `catching up.`

There will be a testing of faith during the reign of the anti-Christ & false prophet, but who those `saints` are, is another topic.


2. The Body of Christ.

Now you say that `The `why` is inextricably linked to the `when.` It`s when the full number of those who are Christ`s have been determined .....`

Glad you link the `why` & the `when.` However God`s motive, His will always comes first. Thus it would be the `when` is inextricably linked to the `why.` The `why,` comes first.

So you say that there is a `number ....determined.` God`s word tells me that –

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.` (John3: 16)

Thus we see that `WHOEVER,` believes, is not a (pre)determined number. God knows because of His omniscience (all knowing) but He does not have a `number` that needs to be reached & thus the Body will be `caught up.` Having a `determined number` would make God partial, whereas all are able to come & believe. Sadly many choose not to.

I do want to bring out some other points from your comments but will let you reply, if you want to, thus far.

Marilyn.
 

Edited August 13, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Bible2]

Marilyn C said in post 20:

 

There will be a testing of faith during the reign of the anti-Christ & false prophet, but who those `saints` are, is another topic.

 

Note that it is germane to the topic insofar as, under the post-trib view, those "saints" in the tribulation are "the Body of Christ" in the thread's title.

 

That is, note that Jesus spoke specifically of his "church" (Matthew 16:18, Matthew 18:17) before he spoke Matthew 24. And Matthew 24 refers to the future tribulation, by which time the church will have existed for some 2,000 years. The saints who will be in the tribulation will be the church, for they will be believers in Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 7:9,14, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6). Those in the church who will be in the tribulation could include most of the believers alive today (whether Jewish or Gentile), for there will be no pre-tribulation rapture (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Matthew 24:29-31).

 

Also, Matthew 24 was addressed privately only to believers (Matthew 24:3,4,9), and in Jesus' mind all believers of all times are one (John 17:20-21, Ephesians 4:4-6). The entire book of Revelation was likewise addressed only to believers (Revelation 1:1-4, Revelation 22:16). Just as the (mistaken) pre-tribulation rapture view admits that, for example, John 14, Matthew 24's parallel chapter of Luke 21, and Matthew 28 can apply to those in the church today (e.g. Luke 21:36, John 14:3, Matthew 28:18-19), so the pre-tribulation rapture view should be able to admit that Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 can apply to those in the church today.

 

Matthew 24:9-13 refers to the future killing of Christians, whether genetic Jews or Gentiles, those who will be hated and killed for the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9) in every nation during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Matthew 24:9-13 shows that not all Christians will continue to love Jesus during that time, but some Christians' love for him will grow cold because of their unrepentant sin (Matthew 24:12; 1 Timothy 4:1-2; 2 Timothy 4:3-4), and/or because they will become offended (Matthew 24:10) that he is letting them and their little ones suffer in the tribulation (Matthew 13:21, Isaiah 8:21-22; 1 Peter 4:12-13). Only those Christians who continue to love Jesus to the end will be ultimately saved (Matthew 24:13, Matthew 10:37-39).