The Battle of Gog and Magog

[Sister]

William
 

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If "Edom is the 'spiritual land,' " that is, a spiritual people who are slain in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, then after that destruction that valley will become uninhabitable forever after. Which is utter nonsense. Hear what the Word says:

Isaiah 34:5 “For My sword shall be bathed in heaven;
Indeed it shall come down on Edom,
And on the people of My curse, for judgment.

6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood,
It is made overflowing with fatness,
With the blood of lambs and goats,
With the fat of the kidneys of rams.
For the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah,
And a great slaughter in the land of Edom.

7 ...Their land shall be soaked with blood,
And their dust saturated with fatness.” ...

9 Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.

10 It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever and ever.

 

Go a bit further up the chapter

Isaiah 34:1   Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

 Isaiah 34:2   For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

  Isaiah 34:3   Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
 

[Sister]

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So according to your teaching, Sister, the Valley of Hinnom, which runs directly west to south of the City of David, will become "uninhabitable forever" after the Lord's battle for Jerusalem. From that date ever after, the city will be polluted with brimstone and burning tar.

William

Yes. Not the city but the Valley which is outside Jerusalem..  It will never be inhabited because all the slain will rot there as a reminder of what happens when you fight against the Lord.  Do you not believe the scriptures?

  Isaiah 34:9   And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.

 Isaiah 34:10   It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
 

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Or, this land is the place of the real ancient land of Edom, in the south of Jordan and northwest of Saudi Arabia, the same Edom spoken of as a land in Daniel 11:41. Which land sits upon a branch of the Great Rift Valley, a very active seismic fault line, where earthquakes have been common. Where brimstone and asphalt have historically risen from the earth during earthquakes. And are so prophesied to do so again; so much so that this land will finally become completely uninhabitable.

 

Where will the armies gather against the Lord according to Revelation?  In Israel or Edom?  Would they gather at Megiddo to fight at Edom?  Come on William, be reasonable.

 

 

[Montana Marv]

13 minutes ago, Sister said:

Montana Marv

Are you going to reject all those verses I gave you previously?

Nebuchadnezzar was forgiven in the end.  Yes God brings up and kingdoms and he brings them down.  But when these kingdoms or kings are committing abominations and exalting themselves against the Most High, Satan is there with them.  Nebuchadnezzar was very proud at one stage and God punished him for seven years, until he was humbled.

Sister

You have rejected all my Scriptures which I gave.

I have to reject all your interpretations of the verses.  You just said that Satan was the real king of Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar), now you say he was forgiven at the end.  Which is it.  Satan or Nebuchadnezzar.  And I said that king Neby was given dominion, power, might and glory.  Show me where Satan has been given glory by the Lord God Almighty.  And the Glory of the Lord filled the Temple.  The heavens declare the Glories of God.  Yet glory was given to king Neby, not Satan.

So does Satan cast out Satan.  In Daniel, King Neby wanted to execute all his magicians, enchanters, and astrologers.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

30 minutes ago, Sister said:

Yes. Not the city but the Valley which is outside Jerusalem..  It will never be inhabited because all the slain will rot there as a reminder of what happens when you fight against the Lord.  Do you not believe the scriptures?

  Isaiah 34:9   And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.

 Isaiah 34:10   It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

If you cannot see that such air pollution would make the rest of Jerusalem uninhabitable for ever after -- that is, throughout the Millennium -- then no more need be said. You believe that Jerusalem and the Lord's Temple therein is going to be one stinky place. Brimstone is sulfur: ever smelled it burn?

30 minutes ago, Sister said:

Where will the armies gather against the Lord according to Revelation?  In Israel or Edom?  Would they gather at Megiddo to fight at Edom?  Come on William, be reasonable.

You have so narrowed your understanding so as to not be able to see that there will be many battles before that final battle of the Lord against the nations of the Beast. One of those battles will be in "the land of Edom."  There will be others besides that one, before the final battles in the area of Megiddo/Jezreel and the one at Jerusalem.

When the Lord descends to fight that final battle against the nations of the Beast, his garments have already been stained/soaked in blood. Rev. 19:13 That blood comes from a prior battle.

 

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

Satan has never been in charge. 

Yet,  in Ephesians, maybe Galatians, Revelation,

satan is in charge of most people on earth. ((actually, everyone, except the Redeemed by the BLOOD)).

[WilliamL]

49 minutes ago, Sister said:

Go a bit further up the chapter

Isaiah 34:1   Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

 Isaiah 34:2   For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

  Isaiah 34:3   Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

Verse 2 is an inaccurate translation; a more accurate reading is: he hath utterly consecrated, devoted, dedicated them for destruction: Hiphil Perfect of charam, he hath given: Qal Perfect of nathan them for slaughter.

This verse is telling what the Lord intends to carry out in the End Times, speaking in general terms. Verses 1-3 are preamble and general; verse 4 is a specific prophecy about the cataclysms of the 6th Seal (Rev. 6:12-14 = Matt. 24:29); verses 5-17 are a specific prophecy about Edom. Such shifts of focus are very common in Isaiah and other prophecies about the End Times. No one prophecy is able to include all of the vast information needed to describe all of the events of the End Times: every prophecy focuses on some events while ignoring others.

[Montana Marv]

William

Sister is mixing up the Hinnom valley with Isa 34:9,10.  Which are two distinct and different settings.  Isa 34:9,10 is a judgment against Edom, yet this is after the redeemed of Israel are back in Jerusalem after the Second Coming.  Out of one of their many hiding and protected spots.  For Petra is there in Edom, adjacent to the Dead Sea.  The Hinnom valley are filled with homes now.  And so shall many people live there during the Mill.  Another one of Sisters not knowing geography.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Sister]

Montana Marv and William

I'll leave you with this to work out;

 Zechariah 11:3   There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Yet,  in Ephesians, maybe Galatians, Revelation,

satan is in charge of most people on earth. ((actually, everyone, except the Redeemed by the BLOOD)).

Not really

Satan focuses his attention on the redeemed in Christ, because they are the Redeemed.  Really it is the individual who decides who to follow, Satan does not make this decision for someone.  If Satan is in control of all, no one would follow Christ.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Esther4:14]

On 3/6/2016 at 7:10 AM, Montana Marv said:

Sister

 Another false statement or claim of yours.  Satan has never been in charge.  Look at Daniel 2:37, 38 - You, O king (Nebuchadnezzar) are the king of kings.  The God of Heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory.   In your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air.  Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all.  You are that head of gold.

Dan 4:2 - It is my pleasure to tell you about the miraculous signs and wonders that the Most High God has performed for me.

Satan does not give credit to God the Most High, he takes credit for himself.

So Sister your words are not true, if fact they are opposite to what the true Scriptures say.  Your words are a fraud.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

On 3/6/2016 at 9:44 AM, Sister said:

Montana Marv and William

I'll leave you with this to work out;

 Zechariah 11:3   There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.

Hi Sister,

It will never cease to amaze me that people think that being rude to someone increases their credibility somehow.  Personally, I cannot fathom why it was necessary to say "your words are a fraud," in the above quote at all.  Completely unnecessary.  It would seem reasonable that if you truly believe you have proven a case with scripture, there is no need to add the clear statements that express personal frustration with another person that have nothing to do with the subject.   I can clearly see a frustration that has nothing to do with the subject matter at all, and obviously would expect it to be denied rather than hear any repentance as most people like this usually do-because they have such a great argument.  People who think other people need to be rebuked for their rudeness are just taking things too personally, which is really not a scriptural case for demonstrating that a person is not capable of discerning unloving attitudes towards other believers and is only taking something too personally. 

I think Marv is being rude to you and I would challenge someone to assert that this is false according to scripture.  Where does it say in scripture that I am taking something too personally and that it is okay to speak this way to people if they are wrong?  We are obviously talking about prophecy here.  Does this mean that people choose to discuss prophecy because they know nothing about love?  I think this is often why people choose to discuss prophecy because they are uncomfortable with the basic command of Christ to love their neighbor.  If you can't speak in love, you are not qualified to discuss prophecy. 

I actually think you make a great point about Satan being in charge, which I was already somewhat familiar with from some of your posts, and was thinking about when I read through Revelation again the other day.  I clearly can see a connection to Esau in chapter 13 that I had never noticed before.  The dragon described in Revelation 13 is Satan according to Revelation 12:9. 

In Revelation 13:2 we can see that the dragon (Satan) gives his power, authority, throne to the beast the way Esau gave up his birthright; and they worship the dragon (Satan) because of this (Revelation 13:4).  They say, "who is like the beast; who is able to make war with it?" (Revelation 13:4) because of the power he is given, which is the same thing they said about King Herod in Acts 12:22. 

However, what is most significant about the connection made between these various characters from history and their relationship with the Devil is what the Bible says about Pharaoh.  "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt," (Exodus 7:3).  The Bible tells us that Pharaoh's heart was hardened.  This describes the dragon as having a hardened heart like Pharaoh.  This is why he exchanges he gives his birthright to the beast, so to speak. 

Then, we can see that when the fifth cherub pours out the bowl on the throne and kingdom of the beast and when sores make them miserable, they still refuse to repent because their hearts are hardened like the dragon, which they follow (Revelation 16:10-11).

However, it might be going a tad to far to say that Satan is truly in control of former and future kings because of what scripture says he gives up in exchange for this illusion of control over creation.  Someone who has to give up a throne and power and authority that were given to him to be in control, is not really in control to begin with. 

However, on the other hand, the book of Revelation concludes by telling us that there will be no more Herod's, or Pharaohs, or Nebuchadnezzar's when the dragon is bound for a thousand years, "that he should not still lead astray the nations,"(Revelation 20:2-3).  Where there is no dragon, there is no Pharaoh, suggesting that you do make a good point overall, in my opinion. 

Bless you in your pursuit of truth.