Can anyone tell me how to cleanse the inside of the cup and the plate?

[thereselittleflower]

In regards to The Imitation of Christ:

For five hundred years, this gentle book, filled with the spirit of the love of God, has brought understanding and comfort to millions of readers in over fifty languages, and provided them with a source of heart-felt personal prayer. These meditations on the life and teachings of Jesus, written in times even more troubled and dangerous than our own, have become second only to the Bible as a guide and inspiration.

It is now available in a MODERN TRANSLATION that retains the flavor of the original English translation.

 

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kempis/imitation.html

 

It can be read online at that link from the ccel (a protestant site that collects christian writings from the Early Church Fathers, forward.

The chapters are short and very meaningful.  For instance, the 1st chapter:

The First Chapter

Imitating Christ and Despising All Vanities on Earth

HE WHO follows Me, walks not in darkness,” says the Lord (John 8:12). By these words of Christ we are advised to imitate His life and habits, if we wish to be truly enlightened and free from all blindness of heart. Let our chief effort, therefore, be to study the life of Jesus Christ.

The teaching of Christ is more excellent than all the advice of the saints, and he who has His spirit will find in it a hidden manna. Now, there are many who hear the Gospel often but care little for it because they have not the spirit of Christ. Yet whoever wishes to understand fully the words of Christ must try to pattern his whole life on that of Christ.

What good does it do to speak learnedly about 2the Trinity if, lacking humility, you displease the Trinity? Indeed it is not learning that makes a man holy and just, but a virtuous life makes him pleasing to God. I would rather feel contrition than know how to define it. For what would it profit us to know the whole Bible by heart and the principles of all the philosophers if we live without grace and the love of God? Vanity of vanities and all is vanity, except to love God and serve Him alone.

This is the greatest wisdom—to seek the kingdom of heaven through contempt of the world. It is vanity, therefore, to seek and trust in riches that perish. It is vanity also to court honor and to be puffed up with pride. It is vanity to follow the lusts of the body and to desire things for which severe punishment later must come. It is vanity to wish for long life and to care little about a well-spent life. It is vanity to be concerned with the present only and not to make provision for things to come. It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides.

Often recall the proverb: “The eye is not satisfied with seeing nor the ear filled with hearing.”1 Try, moreover, to turn your heart from the love of things visible and bring yourself to things invisible. For they who follow their own evil passions stain their consciences and lose the grace of God.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[enoob57]

The Imitation of Christ is rife with false teachings, such as the belief that we can attain perfection in this life, something the Bible never says.   

 

So Jesus gave us a false command?

Matthew 5:48

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect

 

 

Matthew 5:48 

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

So scripture tells us to be perfect and how to be perfect, but that's a lie?

James 1:4 

And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

 

1 John 2:5

But whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:

 

1 John 4:12 

No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

 

Philippians 2:14-15 

14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing, 15 That you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,

 

2 Corinthians 7:1 

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.

 

 

Matthew 19:21 

Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

 

 

Luke 6:40 

A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher

 

 

 

1 John 1:5-2:6
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
KJV

 

[KPaulG]

Thanks, Ethrayn. How's everything going right now?

 

God Bless you.

 

Your brother in Christ,

KPaulG.

I’ve been having some severe private struggles involving me and my God (that also affect my husband, unfortunately).  It’s difficult to get through my days, and I don’t really know what to do anymore (in this current downer of a mood).  It helps to read the posts in this thread a lot—-kind and bright hopeful things.

Amen, Eth.

 

God Bless you.

 

Your brother in Christ,

KPaulG.

[KPaulG]

We all go through this and our continual struggle is to allow our old man to die and to keep our eyes on God.   

So Ethrayn, you are not the only one.

 

I struggle too.

 

God Bless you.

 

Your brother in Christ,

KPaulG.

I appreciate your encouragement, KPaulG, and find it very helpful.  Thank you.

:)

I'm glad you find it very helpful.

 

God Bless you.

 

Your brother in Christ,

KPaulG.

[KPaulG]

Matthew 23:26

'Blind Pharisee! cleanse first the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside of them also may become clean.

Say the following scripture with me, Ethrayn.

Psalm 139:23-24New Living Translation (NLT)

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
    test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 Point out anything in me that offends you,
    and lead me along the path of everlasting life.

 

I did so.  A few years ago, I was afraid of doing this (praying to have my sins pointed out in me), because I felt like I would only see all sorts of morally bad actions that I wasn’t willing (at the time) or able to address.  Since then, I have become used to constantly seeing things I am doing wrong on a daily basis.  It’s humbling, but I’d rather be in that place.

 

He who is willing to be humble shall be exalted, and he who is willing to be first shall be humbled.

 

God Bless you.

 

Your brother in Christ,

KPaulG.

[KPaulG]

Hello Ethryan, I really think Shiloh gave some great advice, and believe me I really understand how you feel.  We all fail God so badly, it is hard to understand how God can even care about us, even Paul the great Apostle speaks of this in Romans 7:14-23 over and over again saying the good that he would do, he does not; and the evil that he would not do, he ends up doing.  So Paul cries out at the end of this chapter these words:  24)  O wretched man that i am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?    25)  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.  So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.   Romans 7:24-25

I have definitely had problems with this as of late.

My only advice for any believer is never hold a grudge, we may think we have a right too, but Jesus tells us to be forgiven we must forgive other also, Matthew 6:14-15   The Christian is not known by his / her sinlessness; but Jesus says we are know by our love one for another--John 13:34-35; love that only the Holy Spirit can produce see Romans 5:5 and I Peter 1:22

I have struggled with holding grudges, especially in the past, so at those times, I don’t think I am worthy of being forgiven (if I don’t do the same).  At times like those, I hope for God’s grace and mercy to pardon my sins.

Ask for His forgiveness and repent, Eth.

 

God Bless you.

 

Your brother in Christ,

KPaulG.

[Guest shiloh357]

The Imitation of Christ is rife with false teachings, such as the belief that we can attain perfection in this life, something the Bible never says.   

 

So Jesus gave us a false command?

Matthew 5:48

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect

 

 

Matthew 5:48 

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

So scripture tells us to be perfect and how to be perfect, but that's a lie?

James 1:4 

And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

 

1 John 2:5

But whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:

 

1 John 4:12 

No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

 

Philippians 2:14-15 

14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing, 15 That you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,

 

2 Corinthians 7:1 

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.

 

 

Matthew 19:21 

Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

 

 

Luke 6:40 

A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher

 

 

 

There is a world of difference between the word used for "perfect" in the Greek in Matt. 5:48 and the concept of sinless perfection.   There is NO commandment in the Bible for us to attain sinless perfection in this life.  We certainly cannot attain sinless perfection by the strength of our own efforts.   The sense given in this context is that we are reflect God's character in that we love what He loves and we hate what he hates.  We called to hold him up as our standard and we reflect His will.  It is not a commandment to attain sinless perfection.   If we could, by own actions, attain sinless perfection, then Jesus' sacrifice on the cross to pay for our sins was a pointless act.  It precisely because we cannot be perfect and sinless that we need a sinless Savior.

James 1:4 is the same thing. The idea is not that we never commit a sin.  That's crazy.  The idea is that we stay unspotted from the world, that we live according to God's expectations.   There is no guarantee that we won't sin in some way.  To argue that any passage about perfection is based on us perfecting ourselves is basically to trample the sacrifice of Jesus underfoot.  It is tantamount to saying that Jesus isn't enough.

I John 2:5, 4:12 isn't talking about the Christian being sinless or perfected. It is talking about the process having the love of God perfected in the believer.   This is an ongoing process.  It is part and parcel of the process of sanctification.  It nowhere states that there will be a point in this this life that we will arrive at a sinless, flawless, perfect state.   John is, in 2:5, referring to the Love of God for mankind perfected in those who receive "the word"  or "the message"  namely the Gospel.  The design of God's love is found in those who believe and obey the Gospel.  The love of God expressed through message of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus is "perfected" or accomplished when we accept that message.   That's not about us living sinlessly perfect. 

In I John 4:12 the idea here is again, the perfection of God's love, not the sinless perfection of the person.   The word for "perfected" in both 2:5 and 4:12 is teleioo and it refers to the accomplishment of a goal.  It comes from the word "telos"  which refers to the actual goal, itself.    Teleioo is referring to the ongoing to process. It is something that is happening over time, but has not been completed.  Nowhere in the Bible are we promised that any of the goals God has for us will be completed in THIS life.  We are certainly never promised that those goals will be attained by the strength of human effort.  It is a work of God on the human heart, because that is what God is looking at.   We reflect his character in that we love what he loves and we hate what he hates and that is being worked into us every day.   It is a goal that will ONLY be realized when we step into eternity.

Phil. 2: 14-15 isn't talking about sinless perfection either.  That is not what blameless means.    Blameless means that if all the world can hate us for is our faith in Jesus, then we are blameless.   It doesn't mean we have attained sinless perfection, but that the world cannot charge us with hypocrisy.  We are not living a life of sin contrary to our profession while condemning others of the same sin.  We are not cheating others in our job, we are not telling dirty jokes at the water cooler, while at the same time we have Bible on our desk.  We are blameless.

II Cor. 7:1 is also not dealing with sinless perfection. Neither is it claiming that we can cleanse ourselves from sin in the absolute sense.  If I could make myself sinless, what do I need with Jesus.    Or put it a different way....   What can I do for myself through my own efforts that Jesus didn't already do for my on the cross?   Am I so arrogant as to assume that I can add to the finished work of the Cross??

Paul's point is that we are cleanse our lifestyle from anything that would defile us outwardly. We are to cooperate with God who is working holiness inside us.  We are live in a way that is not contrary to the inner work of salvation.   Our lives should be arranged around living a holy life and to be unspotted by the world's system.

Matt. 19:21 uses the same word for perfection and carries the same sense as stated in Matt. 5:48 and James 1:4.  No need to repost the same information

Luke 6:40 - If this means that we are to be as sinless as Jesus, no one is in heaven at this time.  The word for the phrase, "fully trained"  is katartizo and refers to being complete, not sinlessly perfect.  Jesus point here needs to be seen in the light of what he said previously.   A student can never go beyond his teacher and should not expect to.   A blind teacher will have "blind" students. For that reason if a blind teacher leads his student in the wrong way, they will both fall into a ditch. It is an admonishment to choose your teachers wisely.  It is not a call to sinless perfection.

[Willa]

Remember, that as long as you have you thoughts on yourself, they are not on God and you cannot hear Him directing you to do what He would have you do.  It may be to clean the house or to serve your husband.  Whenever we act in obedience to the Word and His direction, He will bless us.  Find someone who is hurting worse than yourself and try to be a blessing to them.  Find an elderly friend who is confined to their house or to a nursing home.  

  Move past your past.  Life goes on.  Be a blessing.

[thereselittleflower]

The Imitation of Christ is rife with false teachings, such as the belief that we can attain perfection in this life, something the Bible never says.   

 

So Jesus gave us a false command?

Matthew 5:48

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect

 

 

Matthew 5:48 

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

So scripture tells us to be perfect and how to be perfect, but that's a lie?

James 1:4 

And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

 

1 John 2:5

But whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:

 

1 John 4:12 

No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

 

Philippians 2:14-15 

14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing, 15 That you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,

 

2 Corinthians 7:1 

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.

 

 

Matthew 19:21 

Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

 

 

Luke 6:40 

A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher

 

 

 

1 John 1:5-2:6
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
KJV

 

I think people misunderstand the perfection sought after in The Imitation of Christ if they think it is promoting absolute perfection which is impossible this side of heaven.   I've actually read the book and it doesn't promote absolute perfection.

If instead, people considered the perfection we are called to in scripture not attainable, then that would mean God gave us commands that are impossible.   God does not give us commands that are impossible.   With God ALL THINGS are POSSIBLE.

So if one tries to make it appear that it is impossible for us to reach the perfection we are called to in this life, one is to pitting oneself against the word of God itself.

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2015 by thereselittleflower

[thereselittleflower]

The Imitation of Christ is rife with false teachings, such as the belief that we can attain perfection in this life, something the Bible never says.   

 

So Jesus gave us a false command?

Matthew 5:48

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect

 

 

Matthew 5:48 

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

So scripture tells us to be perfect and how to be perfect, but that's a lie?

James 1:4 

And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

 

1 John 2:5

But whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:

 

1 John 4:12 

No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

 

Philippians 2:14-15 

14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing, 15 That you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,

 

2 Corinthians 7:1 

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.

 

 

Matthew 19:21 

Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

 

 

Luke 6:40 

A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher

 

 

 

There is a world of difference between the word used for "perfect" in the Greek in Matt. 5:48 and the concept of sinless perfection.  

Shiloh, The Imitation of Christ does not call for absolute sinless perfection.    I've read the book myself.   

This is what he says about perfection:

 Every perfection in this life has some imperfection mixed with it and
   no learning of ours is without some darkness. Humble knowledge of self
   is a surer path to God than the ardent pursuit of learning. Not that
   learning is to be considered evil, or knowledge, which is good in
   itself and so ordained by God; but a clean conscience and virtuous life
   ought always to be preferred. Many often err and accomplish little or
   nothing because they try to become learned rather than to live well.

3rd chapter

 

You are barking up the wrong tree here.  

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2015 by thereselittleflower