Dear friends in Christ....

[Guest astralis]

Like Holy Scripture tells me, I hope that I will go to heaven.

[angels4u]

Astralis, you know so much about the church history and the Bible is so clear about it, don't you think you can claim John 3:16 for your self and put your name in it?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that if Astralis believes in Him he shall not perish put have everlasting life..

Astralis this is a promise from God for you!!

Love in Christ, Angels

[Guest astralis]

Oh yes!  It's true and John 3:16 is a favorite verse for me, most Protestants and Catholics alike.  Yet, Christianity doesn't end there.

While numerous passages of Scripture state that faith is necessary for salvation, none say that faith alone saves. In fact, Scripture specifically denies that faith alone saves in James 2:24, while simultaneously pointing out the necessity of good works for salvation in several other passages, e.g., Eph 2:8-10, Jn 14:15, 1 Jn 5:1-3, Mt 25:31-46, Gal 6:2, etc.

You can't ignore scripture.

[Guest racer]

astralis,

Well I finally found your list of so-called other OT books not quoted in the NT.  Can't believe I have not been keeping up with this thread.  You astralis are just a tad less than honest in some of you claims, IMHO, so don't ask me to prove it.

Actually, the NT does reference parts of the Apocrypha.  Second, even if it didn't then why do you recognize Ruth, Esther, Obadiah, Ezra, Nahum, Judges, Nehemiah, Ecclesiastes and Canticles?  They are not quoted in the NT either.  Hardly "virtually every book of the OT".

Then show me where?  Please! See, I never said all NT books were referenced in the OT.  You, however, boast that Jesus and the Apostles taught from the Septuagint which included the Apocrypha.  So, I'm asking you where did Jesus and his apostles reference those books?  I say put-up-or-quit-saying-it.  

[Guest astralis]

Again, you act like they have to.  They don't or you can scrap your OT where other books are not mentioned in the NT.

This is as honest as it gets.

Hebrews 11:35 is an indisputable reference to 2 Maccabees 7, but many are not so clear as there may be only a single phrase that echoes one in a deuterocanonical book (and this may not be obvious in the translation, but only the original languages).

This is the same with New Testament references to the protocanonical books of the Old Testament. How many New Testament references there are to the Old Testament depends in large measure on what you are going to count as a reference.

As a result, many scholarly works simply give an enormous catalogue of all proposed references and leave it to the individual interpreter to decide whether a given reference is actual or not.

For an extensive list of references to the Deuterocanonicals in the NT go to this site and scroll down:  http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/deutero3.htm

[Guest racer]

astralis,

For one who loves to hold people accountable for their scholarship, you sure don't hold yourself to the same standards.

[Guest astralis]

I don't understand what you're talking about Racer.

[Guest racer]

People, I can not believe what you have let astralis get away with on this thread!

[Guest racer]

astralis,

See, I never said all NT books were referenced in the OT.

Okay, I'll attribute your inability to discern what others say to "selective comprehension."  If it doesn't support your beliefs, you it is simply beyond your comprehension.

I never said that Jesus and the apostles referencing OT texts was proof of their inspiration.  However, apparently amongst those who compiled the OT, the books in the Prot bible were agreed upon by all.  Right?  They're not in question.  However, you claim that Jesus and the apostles taught from the Apocrypha.  How else can you prove that, without showing us? ???

[Guest astralis]

Racer,