The New Jerusalem - `AS a bride adorned for her husband.`

[Ezra]

Hi MorningGlory,

Where do you get the `absolute & cannot be spiritualised` from?

Marilyn.

Obviously MG got that from Scripture.  John says that an angel was given a "golden reed" (a golden measuring rod) "to measure the city" (Rev 21:15).  That cannot be spiritualized. The furlong (Greek stadion) was a Greek measure adopted by the Jews. It was 600 Greek feet, 625 Roman feet, and 606 + 3/4 English feet (according to Unger's Bible Dictionary).

[Montana Marv]

Ezra

Now put your square on a round object.  It will not fit.  The gates/entrance then would need to be on the bottom, not the sides.

If one embeds the cube into the earth (round object), then some of the gates are lost.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Who says that the cube of the New Jerusalem will be embedded on the earth? The New Jerusalem will hover over the earth, whereas the earth will be renewed altogether. The "heavenly city" always remains a heavenly city, and replaces the sun for light (Rev 21:23,24). There is much that has not been revealed regarding the communication between the New Jerusalem and the New Earth, but the one does not replace or displace the other.

Ezra

Unless men are hovering above the earth, then the New Jerusalem is also hovering. But if men will still reside on this earth, then the New Jerusalem resides on this earth.   Rev 21:3 - Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.  They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 

According to 2 Samuel 7:16 - The house and kingdom of David will endure forever before me, your throne will be established forever.  Now if Davids throne was here on earth and was to be established forever.  This is an earthly throne King David had.  Then the New Jerusalem must be/reside on this earth to fulfill this prophecy. 
For eternity..

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

[MorningGlory]

Hi MorningGlory,

Where do you get the `absolute & cannot be spiritualised` from?

Marilyn.

Obviously MG got that from Scripture.  John says that an angel was given a "golden reed" (a golden measuring rod) "to measure the city" (Rev 21:15).  That cannot be spiritualized. The furlong (Greek stadion) was a Greek measure adopted by the Jews. It was 600 Greek feet, 625 Roman feet, and 606 + 3/4 English feet (according to Unger's Bible Dictionary).

I was going to answer that, Ezra, but you did such a good job.....I don't need to! 

[Marilyn C]

 

Hi MorningGlory,

Where do you get the `absolute & cannot be spiritualised` from?

Marilyn.

Obviously MG got that from Scripture.  John says that an angel was given a "golden reed" (a golden measuring rod) "to measure the city" (Rev 21:15).  That cannot be spiritualized. The furlong (Greek stadion) was a Greek measure adopted by the Jews. It was 600 Greek feet, 625 Roman feet, and 606 + 3/4 English feet (according to Unger's Bible Dictionary).

I was going to answer that, Ezra, but you did such a good job.....I don't need to! 

Hi MorningGlory & Ezra,

So are you telling me that your great hope, your eternal home is in a gigantic box like object, smaller than the earth, with enormous walls that keep out the `baddies?` Really! Well then, if that is all that`s needed to keep out those that defile, etc then the Lord Jesus didn`t need to die. It seems you think the walls etc will do that job of protection. 

Also makes you wonder as to why God went to all the trouble of making the nations, Israel & the Body of Christ, when He could have put humans in this gigantic box earlier, to sort out the `goodies & the baddies.`

I do jest, but I hope you get my point as to how ridiculous (to me) it is to think of this great `city` as a box (or pyramid) with actual physical walls when it all points to Christ, His great sacrifice & those He has made to govern there.

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ezra]

 

Unless men are hovering above the earth, then the New Jerusalem is also hovering. But if men will still reside on this earth, then the New Jerusalem resides on this earth.   Rev 21:3 - Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.  They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 

Marv,

The first thing to remember is that the New Jerusalem is the eternal abode of God,  the Lamb, and the Holy Spirit. At the same time it is the eternal home of the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body).  At the present this New Jerusalem is in Heaven (Heb 12:22-24), and Scripture shows it as DESCENDING ("coming down from God out of Heaven", Rev 21:2), not "descending to the earth" (big difference). Scripture also shows that the New Earth receives its light from God, and this comes from the New Jerusalem.  That is why it stands to reason that it will be a heavenly body hovering (or orbiting, makes no difference) over the earth .

As to the Scripture you have quoted, please refer to Ezekiel and all the OT prophets. Redeemed and restored Israel will be eternally on earth, and God's dwelling place will indeed be with redeemed men on earth in the Temple at Jerusalem (God is omnipresent).  There will also be redeemed nations surrounding Israel on earth. So God will have a redeemed earth within the Kingdom of God, and God will also have all the saints in the New Jerusalem as a part of that Kingdom. The saints will also rule on earth.

[Ezra]

Hi MorningGlory & Ezra,

So are you telling me that your great hope, your eternal home is in a gigantic box like object, smaller than the earth, with enormous walls that keep out the `baddies?` Really! Well then, if that is all that`s needed to keep out those that defile, etc then the Lord Jesus didn`t need to die. It seems you think the walls etc will do that job of protection.

Marilyn,

That would be a very inadequate and carnal understanding of the New Jerusalem and the finished work of Christ. The primary purpose of the New Jerusalem is to provide God with an eternal dwelling place, where God and the Lamb are themselves the Temple (Rev 21:21).  The secondary purpose of the New Jerusalem is to provide eternal mansions for all the saints (Jn 14:1-3). The walls are certainly said to keep out everything which defiles, but at the same time everything and everyone that defiles will be banished to outer darkness within the Lake of Fire (Rev 21:8). So your understanding of this gigantic multidimensional cubic city (as well as how God deals with the existence of sin and evil) should be adjusted accordingly.

Also makes you wonder as to why God went to all the trouble of making the nations, Israel & the Body of Christ, when He could have put humans in this gigantic box earlier, to sort out the `goodies & the baddies.`

More inadequate understanding. When you study Ezekiel and all the OT prophets, you will discover that redeemed and restored Israel as well as redeemed nations will indeed inhabit the earth, both during the Millennium and for all eternity when there is a New Earth. That does not preclude the existence or purpose of the New Jerusalem.  But if you wish to mock God's design for the New Jerusalem and call it a "gigantic box" then keep on mocking.  Just remember that the Holy of Holies in the Tabernacle as well as in the Temple was also a cube, and that is where God condescended to visit Israel. While the Holy of Holies was 15 x 15 x15 feet, the New Jerusalem is 1,500 x 1,500 x 1,500 miles (the size of a continent).  There will be nothing as beautiful as the New Jerusalem, and we don't even know the half of it.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn. 

Hi MorningGlory,

Where do you get the `absolute & cannot be spiritualised` from?

 

Marilyn.

Well, the measurements are too specific, and the dimensions of this city were penned in an Holy-Spirit-inspired document. Thus, it IS absolute, and it cannot be just “spiritualized” (or “spiritualised”) away, as “representative” of something else. Thus, MorningGlory is correct.

[MorningGlory]

 

Hi MorningGlory,

Where do you get the `absolute & cannot be spiritualised` from?

Marilyn.

Obviously MG got that from Scripture.  John says that an angel was given a "golden reed" (a golden measuring rod) "to measure the city" (Rev 21:15).  That cannot be spiritualized. The furlong (Greek stadion) was a Greek measure adopted by the Jews. It was 600 Greek feet, 625 Roman feet, and 606 + 3/4 English feet (according to Unger's Bible Dictionary).

I was going to answer that, Ezra, but you did such a good job.....I don't need to! 

Hi MorningGlory & Ezra,

So are you telling me that your great hope, your eternal home is in a gigantic box like object, smaller than the earth, with enormous walls that keep out the `baddies?` Really! Well then, if that is all that`s needed to keep out those that defile, etc then the Lord Jesus didn`t need to die. It seems you think the walls etc will do that job of protection. 

Also makes you wonder as to why God went to all the trouble of making the nations, Israel & the Body of Christ, when He could have put humans in this gigantic box earlier, to sort out the `goodies & the baddies.`

I do jest, but I hope you get my point as to how ridiculous (to me) it is to think of this great `city` as a box (or pyramid) with actual physical walls when it all points to Christ, His great sacrifice & those He has made to govern there.

Marilyn.

 

 

There are certain things that have to be read as literal; why measure and document actual dimensions if the whole thing is just a symbol of something else?  That makes no sense and it's not the way the Bible is written.  What is literal is made clear and what is allegorical is easily understood.  For instance, none of us believe an actual beast with ten heads is going to rise out of the sea; we know the beast symbolizes something else.  It really IS that simple.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn (again), 

 

...

Hi MorningGlory & Ezra,

So are you telling me that your great hope, your eternal home is in a gigantic box like object, smaller than the earth, with enormous walls that keep out the `baddies?` Really! Well then, if that is all that`s needed to keep out those that defile, etc then the Lord Jesus didn`t need to die. It seems you think the walls etc will do that job of protection. 

Also makes you wonder as to why God went to all the trouble of making the nations, Israel & the Body of Christ, when He could have put humans in this gigantic box earlier, to sort out the `goodies & the baddies.`

I do jest, but I hope you get my point as to how ridiculous (to me) it is to think of this great `city` as a box (or pyramid) with actual physical walls when it all points to Christ, His great sacrifice & those He has made to govern there.

Marilyn.

Wow. To attack brothers and sisters is not like you.

The SCRIPTURES (specifically Revelation 21 and 22) do indeed call our eternal home a “gigantic box-like (or rather, pyramid-like) object, smaller than the earth, with enormous walls.” It’s not to “keep out the baddies,” but to keep in the atmosphere with an over-all height greater than 272 times higher than Mount Everest! LET THAT SINK INTO YOUR MIND!

Have you considered how large the earth is? It is so big that we perceive the surface of this globe as a flat surface! The New Earth will be just as huge, and yet, areas of the earth that are currently unlivable shall be re-made as habitable. As I said before, the New Jerusalem is God’s House/Tent and the New Earth is His backyard!

God did NOT make “the nations, Israel & the Body of Christ.” He created the MAN! Both the nations and Israel (ALL of the saints, the especially singled-out members of that family, both natural and wild branches, who were the heirs of God’s promises to Avraham) are the FAMILY of that MAN! That’s the importance of it all. God made creatures that could LOVE Him back. Some would choose not to do so, but those who chose to love Him were made members of HIS family.

Through the family of the original Man (“Adam”), God formed the body of His Son, the "second Adam,” and then remade it in His Resurrection! Yeshua`s physical body was made into a “spirit-ual” body; that is, a physical body much stronger than a mere “natural” (a “soul-ual”) body.

So, if the body of the Messiah Yeshua` was and is physical, so should the earth, both now and in the future after the Fire, be physical. At this point, consider this passage:

Romans 8:18-30
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory (brightness) which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation (intense-anticipation) of the creature (created-being) waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
KJV

So, He COULDN’T have put everyone "in this gigantic box earlier” to "sort them out!” That’s NOT HIS WAY!

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retro & MorningGlory & Ezra,

No I did not attack my brothers & sisters, Retro. Sorry if you felt or thought that. Challenge, yes. Try to give a reality check, yes, but attack, never. See how I started -`So are you telling me....` I was inquiring & also in a `jesting` way, showing how thinking that the literal measurements of the city would look like, with great enormous walls. (And for what purpose?)

To think that this city is measured literally & with great walls, is an earthly concept & we know that this city was made in heaven. Also to think that the finale of God`s great purpose is an earthly type city, does not fit in with `eye has not seen...etc` Christ is God`s ultimate purpose & it is all through Him that anything will be made or function. Thus it is to Christ that we look for the meaning of this city.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.