Creation and an Old Earth - One Possibility

[ARGOSY]

12 minutes ago, Kan said:

Yes, that's right, we are in a world that disagrees with views of the past. Happily in some areas, and not so in others. As you said, the past has been botched, even in favor of trying to prove the Bible right, and I guess that hasn't stopped with opposing views either. There are plenty of people who have had high positions in education and science fields who have evidence to dismiss commonly accepted views held by the respective communities. Like you said, it is interesting to know the truth. 

Personally I have never seen any reason to accept the opinions of so called science, mainly because they were very young at the time of creation.

I myself love science. They do not often go off track.  For example if one overlaps the great death of science with the great death of the bible , then it completely opens u the whole pre-flood world. You can get approximate air pressures, oxygen levels, dominant insects and plant life etc etc.  There is a lot that Christians are missing because of their refusal to see the overlap of the wisdom of science with the bible. 

 

I see full geological proof of the flood in science. but neither scientists nor creationists will believe me because of the huge gap in stances. But the evidence nevertheless exists.

[Kan]

57 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

I myself love science. They do not often go off track.  For example if one overlaps the great death of science with the great death of the bible , then it completely opens u the whole pre-flood world. You can get approximate air pressures, oxygen levels, dominant insects and plant life etc etc.  There is a lot that Christians are missing because of their refusal to see the overlap of the wisdom of science with the bible. 

I see full geological proof of the flood in science. but neither scientists nor creationists will believe me because of the huge gap in stances. But the evidence nevertheless exists.

There are a lot of ways that things do or don't add up logically, when we take revelation and science together. The real trouble is we are subject to error, in either sources of info. 

When I was first introduced to the subject of a gap theory etc, I rejected it and never tried to work it out. Because it disagrees with the basic completion of things in six days. That's why I was annoyed sometimes when I read about the pre existing waters etc. but in the end I am very happy with what I found out, and happy that I never ditched the original story.

I think your pondering will bring some interesting answers to all of us. It's embarrassing how long it takes me to get something. 

 

[ARGOSY]

18 minutes ago, Kan said:

There are a lot of ways that things do or don't add up logically, when we take revelation and science together. The real trouble is we are subject to error, in either sources of info. 

When I was first introduced to the subject of a gap theory etc, I rejected it and never tried to work it out. Because it disagrees with the basic completion of things in six days. That's why I was annoyed sometimes when I read about the pre existing waters etc. but in the end I am very happy with what I found out, and happy that I never ditched the original story.

I think your pondering will bring some interesting answers to all of us. It's embarrassing how long it takes me to get something. 

 

Is that my theory? A gap theory?  I thought that was when people think that dinos existed before creation week.  I believe biology was created during creation week, and all fossils are from the last ~6000 years or so.  I believe dinos are pre-flood/original reptiles that adapted rapidly to dry post-flood conditions.  You can actually trace the rapid adaptation of some of them (denied by creationists)

[Kan]

12 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

Is that my theory? A gap theory?  I thought that was when people think that dinos existed before creation week.  I believe biology was created during creation week, and all fossils are from the last ~6000 years or so.  I believe dinos are pre-flood/original reptiles that adapted rapidly to dry post-flood conditions.  You can actually trace the rapid adaptation of some of them (denied by creationists)

Gap theory, I know its not your theory, but you would have your own views on it for sure. I'm interested in original thought, I loath a man who has no mind of his own. 

The dinos are a bit of a puzzle to some, I don't see their existence as separate to the rest of the beasts of the field. Have not their fossils been found laid down with recognized animals of today's species? So I agree.

[other one]

I think we should keep in mind that the Bible is not written as a science book and we shouldn't read it as one.   It was written in respect to the cosmology of the day of those people it was written to.     It's telling them who created everything not really how.

Take everything written by scripture about creation from Genesis to Revelation and then describe the earth; you are going to get a round flat disk with a hard dome on it floating on water and the whole thing sitting on four big pillers for a foundation.

I know people who believe this for they take the Bible literally and are very serious about it.....    just as serious as those of you who think the world was made in six 24 hour days.   Because the Bible says so literally.   I don't think you can take one without taking both literally.

[Kan]

3 minutes ago, other one said:

I think we should keep in mind that the Bible is not written as a science book and we shouldn't read it as one.   It was written in respect to the cosmology of the day of those people it was written to.     It's telling them who created everything not really how.

Take everything written by scripture about creation from Genesis to Revelation and then describe the earth; you are going to get a round flat disk with a hard dome on it floating on water and the whole thing sitting on four big pillers for a foundation.

I know people who believe this for they take the Bible literally and are very serious about it.....    just as serious as those of you who think the world was made in six 24 hour days.   Because the Bible says so literally.   I don't think you can take one without taking both literally.

I disagree with you entirely, on this point. I have found the Bible to be a reliable text book for science, because, not only does it talk science, but it gives you the keys to all sciences.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom.

Yet the greatest science of all, is the science of the cross, the heart of God's character.

God made the universe, so it reflects His character, much more so than an artist in his work, and His character becomes the key to unlock mysteries. Every design in the universe is based on the principles of love - harmony, balance, purpose, order, freedom, boundaries, growth, variety, you name it.

[other one]

18 minutes ago, Kan said:

I disagree with you entirely, on this point. I have found the Bible to be a reliable text book for science, because, not only does it talk science, but it gives you the keys to all sciences.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom.

Yet the greatest science of all, is the science of the cross, the heart of God's character.

God made the universe, so it reflects His character, much more so than an artist in his work, and His character becomes the key to unlock mysteries. Every design in the universe is based on the principles of love - harmony, balance, purpose, order, freedom, boundaries, growth, variety, you name it.

For those of you who are not familiar with it, google       Michael Heiser - genesis creation   .   and watch the three part series about creation...    I mention him for he has a bucket full of degrees of which one is a doctorate in Hebrew language.

I  don't want to post the video's for they are kind of long and it would not be fair to ask the mods to set through it just for this discussion...   but it is a very interesting watch if you have about three and a half hours free.

[ARGOSY]

2 hours ago, Kan said:

Gap theory, I know its not your theory, but you would have your own views on it for sure. I'm interested in original thought, I loath a man who has no mind of his own. 

The dinos are a bit of a puzzle to some, I don't see their existence as separate to the rest of the beasts of the field. Have not their fossils been found laid down with recognized animals of today's species? So I agree.

Exactly. There is just a bit of overlap between them and early post-flood mankind. For example you can see them depicted in the Narmer Tablets.  And Sumerian seals etc  And more recently further evidence has surfaced.  But it can be debated, that many dinos were of amphibuous origin.  for example if you flood all continents right now, what would crawl up onto the land in great numbers?  Sea turtles, sea crocs, sea snakes etc. Because they have multiple eggs, and lacking any predators they could flourish. The turtles would have to adapt into tortoises and learn to move very rapidly, but a few generations of selective breeding would do that (without any need for mutations, just natural changes to  allele frequencies). Nature often shows these rapid changes. Just so happens the variety in amphibuous reptiles was far greater before the flood, and the variety and adaptation after the flood very rapid. Combined with a hot greenhouse climate and huge continental landmasses, huge sizes could be attained. (size having a direct relation to continental landmass)

 

So while previously amphibuous reptiles rapidly populate continents, mankind has just 8 people, slowly increasing in numbers every 20 years or so.  The two only came into contact across a small area of early civilisation, Egypt and Sumeria (and Indus valley?). Then around the same time all those advanced civilisations were wiped out, along with the dinosaurs and sudden climate change (ice age) throughout earth. So there are logical biblical reasons for only a small overlap between early man (very few in number) and the masses of dinosaurs. Please note that all the earliest cities had very high defensive walls.

 

[Kan]

8 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Exactly. There is just a bit of overlap between them and early post-flood mankind. For example you can see them depicted in the Narmer Tablets.  And Sumerian seals etc  And more recently further evidence has surfaced.  But it can be debated, that many dinos were of amphibuous origin.  for example if you flood all continents right now, what would crawl up onto the land in great numbers?  Sea turtles, sea crocs, sea snakes etc. Because they have multiple eggs, and lacking any predators they could flourish. The turtles would have to adapt into tortoises and learn to move very rapidly, but a few generations of selective breeding would do that (without any need for mutations, just natural changes to  allele frequencies). Nature often shows these rapid changes. Just so happens the variety in amphibuous reptiles was far greater before the flood, and the variety and adaptation after the flood very rapid. Combined with a hot greenhouse climate and huge continental landmasses, huge sizes could be attained. (size having a direct relation to continental landmass)

So while previously amphibuous reptiles rapidly populate continents, mankind has just 8 people, slowly increasing in numbers every 20 years or so.  The two only came into contact across a small area of early civilisation, Egypt and Sumeria (and Indus valley?). Then around the same time all those advanced civilisations were wiped out, along with the dinosaurs and sudden climate change (ice age) throughout earth. So there are logical biblical reasons for only a small overlap between early man (very few in number) and the masses of dinosaurs. Please note that all the earliest cities had very high defensive walls.

That could be said more often, as I don't hear it from creationists enough. The evidence in Australia strongly suggests that scenario, where larger animals once roamed until their food source became low, and they died out, leaving behind the smaller species.

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎15‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 6:01 AM, n2thelight said:

I gotcha and I already know,I just like the way you presented it....I know God destroyed the earth,and it was'nt Noah's flood,the first time He did...The entire planet became void and without form,because of His anger.....