And Science Says Our Gap Theory Is Bad...

[SavedOnebyGrace]

On Monday, December 14, 2015 at 2:13 AM, gdemoss said:

Exo 20:11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo 31:17It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

The whole creation including lucifer was made in six days.  The gap theory/principle/ideology or whatever you want to call it is false.

Show me in Genesis on what Creation day Lucifer was created?

[HAZARD]

3 hours ago, Bonky said:

So God created a perfect spirit being who was perfectly perfect until the day he wasn't perfect anymore.  I think someone is being a bit liberal with the use of the word "perfect". 

Lucifer had free will just as we have and he sinned and he convinced one third of Gods angels to turn against God with him.

 Do you believe God created imperfect sinning angels? If so you accuse God of being the author of sin, sickness and disease.

Ezekiel

 13, Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
    14, Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15, Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
    16, By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
    17, Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
    18, Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
    19, All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

 

According to Isa. 14:12-14; Ezek. 28:11-17; Luke 10:18; 2 Peter 3:4-8; Jer.4:23-26; and other passages, Satan known then as Lucifer, had a kingdom on the Earth long before the six days of Gen.1:3; 2:25 and the creation of Adam. These passages reveal that he, through pride, fell and led an invasion of Heaven and was defeated. At that time the Earth was cursed, and all life was destroyed by the first flood, as in Gen. 1:2.

 

How long Lucifer ruled the Earth in perfect harmony with the kingdom of God is not revealed, but it was for a long period, for it took a long time to work up such a rebellion as he did. he caused one third of Gods own angels to rebel, as well as all his earthly subjects.

He regained dominion over the Earth in Adams day and usurped Adams dominion by causing the fall of man and by being the stronger of two sets of rebels after Adam did sin. Adam submitted to Lucifer who got the upper hand of all human rebels because he had the power of sin and death.

Jesus fortunately for mankind has made it possible for us to be free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[HAZARD]

3 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Show me in Genesis on what Creation day Lucifer was created?

He cannot, because they were created long before God laid the foundations of the Earth.

Job 38:  4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
    5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
    6, Whereupon are the foundations  thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

    7, When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD shouted for joy?

These sons of God were the angels for man had not yet been created and even had sons of their own, when God laid the foundations of the Earth. Angels were created and lived with God in Heaven before God originally created the Earth long before the six days of God having to restore the Earth back to a habitable state for man after Lucifers rebellion and the destruction of it.

[Bonky]

If God knew in advance that Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels would rebel then I'd say he has some culpability in allowing sin to enter into the equation [reality].   I'm not sure how anyone would suggest otherwise. 

What I find truly mind boggling is how any creature could exist in heaven and be tempted to turn away and go the other direction.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

8 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

He cannot, because they were created long before God laid the foundations of the Earth.

Job 38:  4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
    5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
    6, Whereupon are the foundations  thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
    7, When the morning stars sang together, and all the SONS OF GOD shouted for joy?

These sons of God were the angels for man had not yet been created and even had sons of their own, when God laid the foundations of the Earth. Angels were created and lived with God in Heaven before God originally created the Earth long before the six days of God having to restore the Earth back to a habitable state for man after Lucifers rebellion and the destruction of it.

Exactly.

[HAZARD]

5 minutes ago, Bonky said:

If God knew in advance that Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels would rebel then I'd say he has some culpability in allowing sin to enter into the equation [reality].   I'm not sure how anyone would suggest otherwise. 

What I find truly mind boggling is how any creature could exist in heaven and be tempted to turn away and go the other direction.

Thing is, and what most people do not understand, or even refuse to believe is this. God does not know what FREE MORAL AGENTS, BOTH ANGELS OR HUMANS will choose to do and then carry out their choice until they actually do it.

For example; When did God know Abraham would be obedient to the fullest?

 Gen 22:12, And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him:  FOR NOW I KNOW now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God knew Abraham would be obedient to the full when Abraham was about to sacrifice his son, not before, and it was then God could give Abraham all the promised blessings.

if God knew what was going on in Sodom, which was reported to Him, why did h not say, "O'h I know," rather than saying; 

  Gen 18:21, "I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know."

(AND IF NOT, I WILL KNOW.)

God has no culpability what so ever. A free moral agent is not a free moral agent if one is controlled at to what one can say or do1

God's omnipotence regarding His knowledge includes His entire Plan for mankind from beginning to end, which He knows from beginning to end, and He will change His plans to ensure His plan is fulfilled from beginning to end. If men and or angels decide to go against His plan He will change His plan, choose another and even send His beloved Son to die for mankind to guarantee His plan will be fulfilled. And during this entire fulfilment of His plan, men and angels will be allowed to freely choose which way they will go.

[HAZARD]

"What I find truly mind boggling is how any creature could exist in heaven and be tempted to turn away and go the other direction."

God forces no one to obey Him. 

Men can and  must freely choose to love and obey God to receive all of His promised blessings. If they choose to obey the will reap all the promised blessings, if they choose to disobey, to rebel, to sin, they will reap the promised curses.

God created hell for the devil, his angels and his rebel followers.

When its all done and dusted men will be able to look into Hell for ever and see those there suffering in eternal flames if they want to see. It will be a good reminder of where one will end up if one chooses to fall. Hell will be an eternal monument.

It is plainly stated in Isiah 66:22-24, where the prophet predicts that all natural men on the New earth will be able to look into Hell upon men who have FREELY CHOSEN to sin and rebel against God. Revelation 14:9-11 also proves that men will be tormented in the presence of God and His faithful angels forever. These are literal passages and should be understood just as they are read.

 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Thing is, and what most people do not understand, or even refuse to believe is this. God does not know what FREE MORAL AGENTS, BOTH ANGELS OR HUMANS will choose to do and then carry out their choice until they actually do it.

For example; When did God know Abraham would be obedient to the fullest?

 Gen 22:12, And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him:  FOR NOW I KNOW now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God knew Abraham would be obedient to the full when Abraham was about to sacrifice his son, not before, and it was then God could give Abraham all the promised blessings.

if God knew what was going on in Sodom, which was reported to Him, why did h not say, "O'h I know," rather than saying;

  Gen 18:21, "I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know."

(AND IF NOT, I WILL KNOW.)

God has no culpability what so ever. A free moral agent is not a free moral agent if one is controlled at to what one can say or do1

God's omnipotence regarding His knowledge includes His entire Plan for mankind from beginning to end, which He knows from beginning to end, and He will change His plans to ensure His plan is fulfilled from beginning to end. If men and or angels decide to go against His plan He will change His plan, choose another and even send His beloved Son to die for mankind to guarantee His plan will be fulfilled. And during this entire fulfilment of His plan, men and angels will be allowed to freely choose which way they will go.

This is where you and I will disagree.  God created time but is not limited by it.  God knows the future and what will happen as many, many scriptures illustrate.  If you limit God within time, prophesy becomes educated guess-work.

[hmbld]

13 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

This is where you and I will disagree.  God created time but is not limited by it.  God knows the future and what will happen as many, many scriptures illustrate.  If you limit God within time, prophesy becomes educated guess-work.

Agreed, how can God be limited by His own creation?  God exists outside of time.

[HAZARD]

Hi Saved, you wrote,

"This is where you and I will disagree.  God created time but is not limited by it.  God knows the future and what will happen as many, many scriptures illustrate.  If you limit God within time, prophesy becomes educated guess-work."

.

Don't get me wrong. I am not limiting God in any way.

God is an eternal being and has been in existence throughout the eternal past. By the eternal past, we mean the dateless past before the creation of time, AS WE KNOW IT, since the six days of Gen. 1:3-2; 25.

The eternal future is the continuation of time as we know it since the six days of Gen 1:3-2;25, after the Millennium, when God will finally be all-in-all as before the rebellion was started in the universe by Lucifer, and later Adam.

 Revelation 1:8, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Eternity is made up of time and time shall not cease. before God created our immediate heavens, our galaxy, stars, sun, moon and the Earth, God, a creator, has worked throughout eternity past creating untold billions of vast galaxies, hundreds of millions of light years across and deep.

It is interesting to note that astronomers have discovered planets about 150,000,000 light years from the Earth. This is about 14,690,062,800,000,000,000 miles from the Earth, or a distance light can travel in 150,000,000 years at a speed of 186,000 miles per second. Astronomers also say there are other universes even beyond this one. They say about 6,000,000,000 stars have been discovered and they are all suns to other planets. If this is true then the universe is beyond human conception.

 

It is hard to conceive that God has existed from all eternity past as a lazy being, not doing anything until a few millennium ago, when He finally decided to do something.

 

It is easier to conceive that God has been making things in all the eternal past. Jesus Himself said;

 

 John 5:17, "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."

And they will continue to work through eternity future, and we will be included in their work!