Rapture

[Montana Marv]

56 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Last Daze beat me to it again. (now 2nd post back)

But as always, I gotta add something.

The whole period of Israel's sudden flight out of Egypt on Passover night, after Egypt's holy places had been defiled by their dead [= their abomination of desolation], was a type and shadow of the Church's latter day flight of Matt. 24:16 and Rev. 12:6, right after they see the AD in the Holy Place.

The whole period of Israel's trials in the wilderness up to their coming to Mount Sinai corresponds to great tribulation/trial of the Church, likewise in the wilderness.

YHWH's descent upon Mount Sinai in clouds, amidst quake and fire and thick darkness, all were types of Christ's coming in the clouds immediately following the great similar natural-world cataclysms of the 6th Seal: Matt. 24:29-30, Rev. 6:12f.

YHWH then called the elect of his people up onto the mountain into his Presence, just as Jesus will call his people up unto heavenly Mount Zion. Paul explicitly states this parallel in Heb. 12:18-28.

Now to the point: just days before YHWH descended upon Mount Sinai, "the people...washed their clothes." The fulfillment of this type is that which is reported in Rev. 7:14 : "These...washed their robes." The former was a type and shadow of the latter, and Last Daze has explained the latter well.

William

I see you are into replacement theology.

Matt 24:15-20 is for Israel to flee.  This is the time of Jacobs trouble.  This corresponds to Rev 12:13-16.  It is not the Church that flees.

Yes, and to wash your clothes (robes). One must be in the physical body to do that. For those who are in/like Christ are in no need to wash their garments.  They are already deemed clean.  They already have a glorified body.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

On 12/4/2015, 3:07:33, Montana Marv said:

I see you are into replacement theology.

False accusation, having nothing to do with what I teach. Replacement theology says that the Church replaced Israel as God's people. Nothing that I have taught says that. But you do not ever digest the full meaning what I write.

Matt 24:15-20 is for Israel to flee.  This is the time of Jacobs trouble.  This corresponds to Rev 12:13-16.  It is not the Church that flees.

Israel will flee and so will the Church. Satan and his minions hate both, and will  try to destroy both. This is abundantly evident in the world today, in case you haven't noticed.

Yes, and to wash your clothes (robes). One must be in the physical body to do that. For those who are in/like Christ are in no need to wash their garments.  They are already deemed clean.  They already have a glorified body.

Last Daze already explained this, but you didn't hear him. He wrote, "Yes, we were washed per the above verse.  Our robes, however, are our righteous acts, a distinct difference.  They are the result of our faith." See his post of 1:17 pm Fri.

The blood of Christ washed our souls from the consequences of sin. But our clothes, spiritually speaking, are our continuing works after salvation, which need continual cleansing through repentance, because "all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags."

 

[Montana Marv]

William

Here is a quote of yours from above:   The whole period of Israel's sudden flight out of Egypt on Passover night, after Egypt's holy places had been defiled by their dead [= their abomination of desolation], was a type and shadow of the Church's latter day flight of Matt. 24:16 and Rev. 12:6, right after they see the AD in the Holy Place. 

It was the first born who were killed that night along with the first born of the livestock.  I do not think that their holy places were defiled at midnight.  No one was in them.

Matt 24:16 is referring to Israel (Jews) that are to flee, Not the Church's flight.  The woman of Rev 12:6 is referring to Israel (Jews) who will be protected for 1,260 days (42 months or 3 1/2 years);  Not the Church's flight.  The holy place being referred to is the Temple in Jerusalem.  Those in Judea (Jews) who see this are to flee.

This is where I come up with replacement theology from you.

James 4:7 - Submit yourselves to the God.  Resist the devil and he will flee from you.  Come near to God and He will come near to you. 

Why should Christians/Believers fear death?  Satan may take/kill the physical body, but he cannot take ones soul.  So why run?

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[WilliamL]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

William

Here is a quote of yours from above:   The whole period of Israel's sudden flight out of Egypt on Passover night, after Egypt's holy places had been defiled by their dead [= their abomination of desolation], was a type and shadow of the Church's latter day flight of Matt. 24:16 and Rev. 12:6, right after they see the AD in the Holy Place. 

It was the first born who were killed that night along with the first born of the livestock.  I do not think that their holy places were defiled at midnight.  No one was in them.

Exodus 12:12 ‘For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD. ... 29 And it came to pass at midnight that the LORD struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of livestock.

The firstborn of Pharaoh was worshiped as the God Horus. The Apis bull-calf that the Egyptians worshiped was also a firstborn. Both were killed in their temple-palaces, thus defiling them.

Matt 24:16 is referring to Israel (Jews) that are to flee, Not the Church's flight.  The woman of Rev 12:6 is referring to Israel (Jews) who will be protected for 1,260 days (42 months or 3 1/2 years);  Not the Church's flight.  The holy place being referred to is the Temple in Jerusalem.  Those in Judea (Jews) who see this are to flee.

Matt. 24:15 "Therefore when you see the Abomination of Desolation...16 flee..." Jesus was speaking to those who believed in him; he was not speaking about unbelieving Jews. He was telling those who believe in his teachings -- that is, the Church -- to flee.

Luke 21:34 "...that Day...35 ...will come as a snare upon all those who dwell upon the face of the whole earth. [Not just Israeli Jews.] 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you [again, believers in Christ] may be accounted worthy to escape...

You have provided absolutely no scriptural evidence to support your claim that Matt. 24 and Rev. 12 refer solely to Jews.

This is where I come up with replacement theology from you.

James 4:7 - Submit yourselves to the God.  Resist the devil and he will flee from you.  Come near to God and He will come near to you. 

Why should Christians/Believers fear death?  Satan may take/kill the physical body, but he cannot take ones soul.  So why run?

Why should we flee at that time? Because Jesus told us to. If you choose not to follow his instruction in this, that is your choice. But if your teaching causes others in "that Day" to lose their lives unnecessarily, woe unto you.

When the Israelites likewise fled out of Egypt, even so their enemies killed those who straggled behind. Deut 25:17-19; Jasher 81:52f. During our latter-day flight at the beginning of the Great Tribulation, "unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved." People had better take heed to our Lord's warning about how bad things are going to get before his coming in the clouds for his elect.

 

 

[Ezra]

On 02/12/2015, 18:47:06, LMR said:

When does it say this rapture will take place.

The Rapture could take place at any time. The apostolic churches were taught to be ready for Christ coming for His saints at any time. Those who are Christ's should be ready at all times, since that is exactly what Scripture tells us to do:

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

[Montana Marv]

Wiliam

We as Believers are Worthy now.  Why would you want to escape a little tribulation.  While some are waiting for all this to transpire, I will be gone into the Fathers House.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

6 hours ago, Ezra said:

The Rapture could take place at any time. The apostolic churches were taught to be ready for Christ coming for His saints at any time. Those who are Christ's should be ready at all times, since that is exactly what Scripture tells us to do:

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Since you want to take passages out of their full context, how about this one?

Matt. 24:37 As the days of Noah were, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Now, was Noah warned beforehand? Yes he was, first long enough (many years) to build the ark, then seven days in advance of the event. So obviously this "proves," using your logic, that we will be warned at least 7 days in advance.

Besides Luke 21:36, which I quoted above, Paul tells us both in 1 Thes. 5:1-6, and also 2 Thes. 2:1-3, that the Church will see precursor events before "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." Daniel 11:45-12:3 likewise provides precursor events. Will the Lord provide us the exact day? Perhaps not. But your statement that "the rapture could take place at any time" is false, because some of the precursor events have not yet taken place. But they appear to be close.

[Last Daze]

12 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Since you want to take passages out of their full context, how about this one?

Matt. 24:37 As the days of Noah were, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Now, was Noah warned beforehand? Yes he was, first long enough (many years) to build the ark, then seven days in advance of the event. So obviously this "proves," using your logic, that we will be warned at least 7 days in advance.

Besides Luke 21:36, which I quoted above, Paul tells us both in 1 Thes. 5:1-6, and also 2 Thes. 2:1-3, that the Church will see precursor events before "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." Daniel 11:45-12:3 likewise provides precursor events. Will the Lord provide us the exact day? Perhaps not. But your statement that "the rapture could take place at any time" is false, because some of the precursor events have not yet taken place. But they appear to be close.

I agree.  "Not knowing the day or hour" is not the same as "can happen at any time".  The whole notion of imminence is struck down by 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.  It says essentially that the resurrection / rapture won't happen until after the apostasy and the revealing of the son of perdition.  It doesn't get much more straightforward than that.

I also think it's interesting that Jesus said "day or hour", not week, month or year or any longer span of time.  How is time measured?  Essentially the rotation and revolution of the earth in relation to the sun.  If you knew something was going to happen in 30 days but the way you measure days is changed, would that throw off your ability to track the day or hour of when that 30 days is completed?

• The fourth angel sounded, and a third of the sun and a third of the moon and a third of the stars were struck, so that a third of them would be darkened and the day would not shine for a third of it, and the night in the same way.  Revelation 8:12

Just a thought.

[n2thelight]

On Sunday, December 06, 2015 2:18:39, Ezra said:

The Rapture could take place at any time. The apostolic churches were taught to be ready for Christ coming for His saints at any time. Those who are Christ's should be ready at all times, since that is exactly what Scripture tells us to do:

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

Christ cannot return at anytime.He told us everything that will and must happen before He returns in Matt 24

Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

 

[Montana Marv]

Not knowing the day or hour;  Everyone goes with this same event on that day.  We were; as is the days of Noah, so shall it be with the coming of the Son of Man.  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. (Matt 24 33-39)  Happy days/times are here again.  This is happening now.  How happy will it be during the Seal, Trumpet and Bowl Judgments.  Not very.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv