Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 12 minutes ago, Butero said: He died for the sins of the world, but he saved the elect, not those who simply prayed a sinner's prayer. Let me show you something here. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor. 6:9-10 There are no exceptions for those who are saved. It is assumed that those who are saved don't do those things anymore according to the 11th verse in that passage. What happens if you begin having an affair? According to this scripture, you will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. What if you become a drunk? According to this, you won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the problem with your doctrine. There are scriptures that directly contradict it, even though there are scriptures you can point to that seem to defend it. Why would God die for the whole world, but not be willing to save the whole world?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 Okay people, I have watched this topic continue to go and go , and I think it has hit its wall, I think that we can also over think this out to the point ,that our reasoning ,becomes un reasonable , and we get taken off course onto another subject far ,far away, I am really thankful for all of you that has given your responses, and comments because it is really a great learning tool, and I do thank you all for that, but I want to keep it, to what we are getting out of this, I had ask if I would be wrong to oppose that osas ? and after looking at the responses, we do have two sides, that is obvious, so , can we say that ,God gives us free will, to make a choice that will give us salvation, or death depending on our choices ? and that God is in control and does know ,what our choices will be and he does know who is his ,and who will reject him but he allows for this to happen and by the sin we repent of or don't, makes the difference of the two choices, for it is a gift of grace, and not of our selves, for it is all about what jesus does for us, and I know that Gods states if my people would call upon me then they shall be saved, we have to acknowledge, romans says to confess ? God will save all that comes to him and calls on him and repents, but the one that does not ,he will not be saved, I think we have the knowledge and know of the unlightenment , that if we are truly his ,his sheep hears his voice, so I will say that its not god taking back anything from anyone , its more of having faith to believe and to live a life of faith that produces fruits, for if we rebell , or continue to sin ,then we never really was his, would that be a fair statement, for we are sealed, but it is when we have acknowledge and surrendered all of our selves to the mercy of God, and we then ,stop living for our selves , and now its for God, for we are to be doers of the word ,and not hearers, for those not following the commandments of God cannot be his followers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 Do YOU believe YOU will be saved ? Why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 4 minutes ago, Butero said: God is revealing the contrast between good and evil to his creation through the struggle that is taking place. In the end, it will be obvious that God's ways are best, and by the time we get to the new heaven and new earth, everything will be settled. What you are describing is a god that has no knowledge of the future. He just started things in motion, and they took him by surprise. He placed Adam and Eve in the garden, and was shocked they actually ate of the forbidden fruit. He created Lucifer and was taken aback when he and 1/3 of the angels rebelled. He had no idea Judas Iscariot would betray his son when Jesus called him. The prophets seem to know more about what is happening than god in your doctrine. Look at it like this. Someone writes a story, and they create good and bad characters. The bad characters didn't choose to be created bad, but we applaud when they are destroyed. We cheer when the good are rewarded, even though they didn't choose to be created good. God chooses to create some vessels of honor and some of dishonor. None of that true. I never said that God didn't know the future. There is a fundamental difference between knowing the future and what you're claiming namely that God is control of every action, and every movement, and is willing people to commit sin. Your logic would mean that a little 14 year old girl who got raped was simiply a victim of God's perfect will and that is completely repugnant to any genuine follower of Jesus. God is not writing a story and choosing who will rape who and who will molest a child and so on. Your theology is heretical, as it perverts the nature of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,379 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 Let's pray for our brother Logan tonight. I believe in the power of prayer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 5 minutes ago, Butero said: I don't know Shiloh, but he clearly doesn't save everyone. You aren't going to say that you believe all will be saved in the end are you? If not, answer your own question. What I am hearing from you is that God is that Jesus died for everyone, but only chose some to be saved. Why would he do that??? That is not what the Bible says. The problem is in your warped view of God's sovereignty and your assumptions that make God responsible for sin. I don't believe everyone will be saved, but I don't believe it is because God doesn't want to save everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 3 minutes ago, Butero said: Shiloh, I know exactly what my position means. It does fit the Biblical profile of a God who has the children of Israel wipe out every man woman and child in various cities in Canaan. It does fit the Biblical profile of a God that sends people to burn in the lake of fire forever because they don't accept his Son as their Savior, even if they live a moral lifestyle by our standards. God has many sides. There is the loving God we see in John 3:16, but there is much more to God than that. God's destruction of the Canaanites was an act of judgment. God doesn't send anyone to hell. They choose to go to hell when they reject Jesus. They consign themselves to destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just now, Butero said: If I died right now, yes. I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and am following him to the best of my ability. If I turn away from him down the road, no. That would mean I wasn't of the elect, but only thought I was. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10,11 What things is he speaking of? It isn't a sinner's prayer. Why wouldn't God tell if you if you are one of the elect? Why keep you in the dark about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Just now, Butero said: What is the difference in that and saying that a little 14 year old girl that wouldn't accept Jesus in church one night died and is spending eternity in hell? My scenario is far worse than yours, yet I would bet you believe it could be true. The difference is that a person rejects Jesus at their own peril. Your position is that the little girl is raped according to the sovereign will of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted December 10, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,834 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2015 Blessings S Saved Hey,one of my favorite people,,,,,,sorry,I've really not read most of the replies but because this topic has been addressed so many times & we've had numerous threads o the subject,however,I would like to make a little comment if that is okay ,,,,,, Quote The key is that no man has the assurance they can live like the devil and remain saved. We are told in scripture to make our calling and election sure. God knows who his children are, but we can be deceived, so there is truth in both sides of the debate. You can get saved and if you died then, go to heaven, or fall away, and if you died then go to hell. That much is true, so you don't have assurance you can sin without repentance and make it to heaven, but the elect, those the Father gave to his Son Jesus, will be saved. Problem is, only God knows for sure who the elect is. We can make our calling and election sure by continuing to walk with Christ, but if we do, that is because it was predestined of God. It is a bit complicated, but it reconciles all the scriptures, and it is the only thing that really makes sense. posted by Butero Yes indeed,does make a lot of sense,I agree Also,I don't think that so much of the Bible would be written to guide & direct Gods children ,those that are followers of Christ,the elect,"Saved",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Quote King James Bible Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Phil 2:12 Quote King James Bible Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16 Of course the Lord wants us to live right & His Word tells us how to go about that but I think we must guard our Salvation & not take it for granted as OSAS,,,,,,,I'm not sure if i am putting it together in the best words but I think the precious gift of Gods Grace does not mean you can live like a hellion because you believe you have the guaranteed Seal of Redemption on your spirit,,,,,,,,I don't believe anyone can "lose" thier Salvation like you can lose your car keys or anything else,,,,,as in "accidentally" I do believe Salvation can be "lost" by a knowing or willful action,I am not sure if whether a person was truly "Saved " in the first place has anything to do with it,,,,,,I am really unsure of these things,,,,,,,,,,IDK I once heard a very good sermon by Andrew Wommack on this subject,,,,,,He said it is not as simple as OSAS versus Losing Salvation but there is a "3rd Category" ,,,,,,,,,kind of a mixture of both ideas,,,it was pretty good & very interesting With love-in Christ,Kwik For myself,,,,,,,I treasure my Salvation as a very precious Gift that I must guard & never fail to remember it was given me by the Blood of Christ,,,,,,,,His Precious Blood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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