OldSchool2 Posted December 14, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted December 14, 2015 12 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Your point isn't lost on me. Your point is simply wrong and you don't know what you're talking about. Actually they did need to convert and were and went on mission trips to convert their fellow Jews. Paul converted. Peter converted. To say they didn't convert is stupid. Of course they converted.... Converted to what? Catholicism? And if Peter "converted" from Judaism, why were he and John still going to the temple (Acts 3:1)? Why did Paul continue to call himself a Jew from Tarsus in the first person, present indicative of "be"? Paul said: "I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia...." (Acts 21:39), not "I was a Jew...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 4 hours ago, inchrist said: You missing the point, this position is not an ONLY catholic position Who said was only a Catholic position. No matter who holds it, it a sinful position to hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 19 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said: Converted to what? Catholicism? And if Peter "converted" from Judaism, why were he and John still going to the temple (Acts 3:1)? Why did Paul continue to call himself a Jew from Tarsus in the first person, present indicative of "be"? Paul said: "I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia...." (Acts 21:39), not "I was a Jew...." Paul and all of the apostles remained ethnically/racially Jewish, but their faith was not in the law but in Christ. No, they didn't convert Catholicism. No one should convert Catholicism. They should be repenting of Catholicism not following Catholicism. The first apostles did go through a transitional period as they gradually left the temple, but they were converts, such as Paul. The Jewish religion of that day was not the biblical faith of the OT, but a perversion of it by the Pharisees and Sadducees. Judaism today, is a further perversion of the OT religion established by God. There is no way the Jewish nation, following the Judaism of Paul's day or today, could play a role in our in our salvation. And yes they need to be converted. It is an anti-Christ position to deny need of Jewish conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted December 14, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 14, 2015 On 12/11/2015, 12:34:48, gdemoss said: http://www.news.va/en/news/vatican-issues-new-document-on-christian-jewish-di That claims to contain the full document So you all mean like this? Over the past decades both the ‘dialogue ad extra’ and the ‘dialogue ad intra’ have led with increasing clarity to the awareness that Christians and Jews are irrevocably interdependent, and that the dialogue between the two is not a matter of choice but of duty as far as theology is concerned. Jews and Christians can enrich one another in mutual friendship. Without her Jewish roots the Church would be in danger of losing its soteriological anchoring in salvation history and would slide into an ultimately unhistorical Gnosis. Pope Francis states that “while it is true that certain Christian beliefs are unacceptable to Judaism, and that the Church cannot refrain from proclaiming Jesus as Lord and Messiah, there exists as well a rich complementarity which allows us to read the texts of the Hebrew Scriptures together and to help one another to mine the riches of God’s word. We can also share many ethical convictions and a common concern for justice and the development of peoples” (“Evangelii gaudium”, 249). The dialogue with Judaism is for Christians something quite special, since Christianity possesses Jewish roots which determine relations between the two in a unique way (cf. “Evangelii gaudium”, 247). In spite of the historical breach and the painful conflicts arising from it, the Church remains conscious of its enduring continuity with Israel. Judaism is not to be considered simply as another religion; the Jews are instead our “elder brothers” (Saint Pope John Paul II), our “fathers in faith” (Benedict XVI). Jesus was a Jew, was at home in the Jewish tradition of his time, and was decisively shaped by this religious milieu (cf. “Ecclesia in Medio Oriente”, 20). For an outside observer, the Conciliar Declaration “Nostra aetate” could give the impression that the text deals with the relations of the Catholic Church with all world religions in a relationship based on parity, but the history of its development and the text itself point in a different direction. The theory that there may be two different paths to salvation, the Jewish path without Christ and the path with the Christ, whom Christians believe is Jesus of Nazareth, would in fact endanger the foundations of Christian faith. And you all realize this document is not by Pope Francis? The Vatican’s Commission for Religious Relations with Jews 10 December 2015 Cardinal Kurt Koch President The Most Reverend Brian Farrell Vice-President The Reverend Norbert Hofmann, SDB Secretary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted December 14, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted December 14, 2015 18 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Paul and all of the apostles remained ethnically/racially Jewish, but their faith was not in the law but in Christ. No, they didn't convert Catholicism. No one should convert Catholicism. They should be repenting of Catholicism not following Catholicism. The first apostles did go through a transitional period as they gradually left the temple, but they were converts.... Converts to what? If they were already ethnically and racially Jewish and have put their faith in Jesus as the messiah -- in Greek, Christos: the anointed one, who is the fulfillment, not the abolishment, of the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17) -- when did they stop being Jewish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Righttruth Posted December 14, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 241 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/07/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 14, 2015 On 12/11/2015, 10:08:34, Ezra said: Coheir, If you have not studied the epistle to the Romans, now would be a good time to do so. In that epistle (which applies to the Church Age) God removes every distinction between Jew and Gentile under the preaching of the Gospel. All are sinners, and all need to be saved by grace through the blood of the Lamb of God. The Law DOES NOT save. It simply condemns to Hell. And no Jew can establish his righteousness through the works of the Law. To distort Scripture and to claim that Jews do not need to be saved through Christ, His blood, and His righteousness is rank heresy. Can you imagine how many souls will be in Hell because of this false teaching? Good warning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted December 14, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 7 hours ago, inchrist said: This clearly isnt just a catholic position now is it? John Hagee has a false teaching here, as does the Vatican. FALSE TEACHERS ARE TO BE EXPOSED. All those who believe the Bible reject these teachings. Please study the epistle to the Romans. At the present time Jews need Jesus, and after His Second Coming as the Deliverer of the Jews (Rom 11:26) they still need to be saved by grace and washed in His blood under the New Covenant. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (Rom 3:9,10) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 5 hours ago, OldSchool2 said: Converts to what? If they were already ethnically and racially Jewish and have put their faith in Jesus as the messiah -- in Greek, Christos: the anointed one, who is the fulfillment, not the abolishment, of the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17) -- when did they stop being Jewish? They converted at some point in their lives, either just after the resurrection of Jesus or, in Paul's case after his Damascus experience with Jesus. But they were converts to faith in Jesus. They didnt' convert to our modern brand of Christianity, but they did convert. That is a fact. Messianic Jews are converts, Just as Jews for Jesus, who absolutely oppose the Vatican's comments and are on the front line of converting Jews to the Christian faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 14, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,176 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,906 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 14, 2015 I've been waiting for George to give some insight into this since he is living it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted December 14, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted December 14, 2015 34 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: They converted at some point in their lives, either just after the resurrection of Jesus.... convert: to persuade, or induce to adopt a particular religion, faith or belief. Many Jews not only believed, but looked forward to their messiah, yet Peter expressed his faith in Jesus even before the Resurrection (Matthew 16:16). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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