other one Posted December 24, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,117 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,851 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2015 We make a big to do about the 72 virgins, but they do it to skip the grave more than that. Just think about laying in the grave and experiencing your body going through the decaying process... Another reason to memorize the Koran, so you can recite it to yourself over the years in the grave. Want to get some idea of it then go lay on the ground somewhere with your eyes covered and simply lay there not moving for the whole day Seeing nothing and not being able to move but experiencing the things around you..... then comes the worms and bacteria and you get to experience the destruction of your body.... thinking in those frames of mind can make you go looking for a good Jihad going on somewhere.. the 72 virgins is just a pleasant add on to make it exciting..... 1 minute ago, Ezra said: Probably pretending to be Gabriel (Jibril). He can transform himself into "an angel of light" when it suits. From the Quranic Arabic Corpus - Ontology of Quranic Concepts Jibreel (جبريل) is the angel of revelation (also known as Gabriel) who recited the Quran to the prophet Muhammad. while that is certainly possible, he doesn't usually bring himself down to the level of dealing with people personally; but being really important he may well have done so. Not that it would really matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted December 24, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 6 minutes ago, Ezra said: Probably pretending to be Gabriel (Jibril). He can transform himself into "an angel of light" when it suits. From the Quranic Arabic Corpus - Ontology of Quranic Concepts Jibreel (جبريل) is the angel of revelation (also known as Gabriel) who recited the Quran to the prophet Muhammad. do you know that this reminds me of how the Mormons also got started , from a dream that joseph smith had by a spirit , or something like that, is this how religions or groups are started, how do you place your faith in these type of events, so how did the Christian belief start up , from he roman catholic, or another person that had a dream ? really how did we get started then in what we believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 21 minutes ago, Ezra said: Probably pretending to be Gabriel (Jibril). He can transform himself into "an angel of light" when it suits. From the Quranic Arabic Corpus - Ontology of Quranic Concepts Jibreel (جبريل) is the angel of revelation (also known as Gabriel) who recited the Quran to the prophet Muhammad. Ever noticed how many false religions always start with an angel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted December 24, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2015 51 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Ever noticed how many false religions always start with an angel? Exactly. Joseph Smith received is "revelations" in the way. And who's to say that the apparitions of Mary seen in different parts of the world are simply deceiving angels (or even Satan taking a woman's form)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 12 minutes ago, Ezra said: Exactly. Joseph Smith received is "revelations" in the way. And who's to say that the apparitions of Mary seen in different parts of the world are simply deceiving angels (or even Satan taking a woman's form)? That is exactly what those apparitions are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 24, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,117 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,851 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2015 1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said: do you know that this reminds me of how the Mormons also got started , from a dream that joseph smith had by a spirit , or something like that, is this how religions or groups are started, how do you place your faith in these type of events, so how did the Christian belief start up , from he roman catholic, or another person that had a dream ? really how did we get started then in what we believe? People who were there in person wrote about it and it was codified into a book so we could read their experiences is where my Christian Beliefs come from...... and many of those people stood behind what they wrote and were saying even though it cost them their lives. I think one would have to be serously involved in the spiritual realm to really understand how Mormonism and Islam began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted December 24, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2015 1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said: do you know that this reminds me of how the Mormons also got started , from a dream that joseph smith had by a spirit , or something like that, is this how religions or groups are started, how do you place your faith in these type of events, so how did the Christian belief start up , from he roman catholic, or another person that had a dream ? really how did we get started then in what we believe? Actually it wasn't a dream - Joseph Smith claimed he found the golden tablets in a forest - and the the Angel Moroni came to him. Very similar. He actually confessed to someone that he made it all up . He and his father were con men. It started with conning his own family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 24, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,117 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,851 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2015 I was told when we looked into joining that church that Moroni showed him were the tablets were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted December 24, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2015 17 minutes ago, other one said: I was told when we looked into joining that church that Moroni showed him were the tablets were. One of the benefits to going to an older university is the library - and the books one finds. I had a friend in college who was considering the mormon church - I dug deep into writings current with with Joseph Smith. One book was a collection of letters written by those who knew him. They included sworn statements regarding his character, behavior, etc. One was from a doctor of high repute who swore under oath that Jospeh Smith had come to him laughing at how gullible his family was. He told this doctor that he had been walking in the forest one day and came to a place where there was a sandy bank along a river with the sun shining on it. The sand was so white he found it beautiful and scooped some up in his cloak and carried it back home. When he walked into his house his family was sat down at dinner and they did the usual in greeting, treated him with derision, mocked him, etc. They asked him what was in his cloak. He had a sudden idea - based on tales floating around that there were ancient golden tablets hidden. This fanciful idea had captured the imaginations of fortune hunters, etc. He said he had found the golden tablets. They believed him and asked him to show them the tablets. He said no - if they saw them, they would die, and took the sand back to his room and locked it away in a trunk. He was laughing at how he had duped them, bragging about it to his doctor. He and his father were well known to be con men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 24, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,117 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,851 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2015 3 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said: One of the benefits to going to an older university is the library - and the books one finds. I had a friend in college who was considering the mormon church - I dug deep into writings current with with Joseph Smith. One book was a collection of letters written by those who knew him. They included sworn statements regarding his character, behavior, etc. One was from a doctor of high repute who swore under oath that Jospeh Smith had come to him laughing at how gullible his family was. He told this doctor that he had been walking in the forest one day and came to a place where there was a sandy bank along a river with the sun shining on it. The sand was so white he found it beautiful and scooped some up in his cloak and carried it back home. When he walked into his house his family was sat down at dinner and they did the usual in greeting, treated him with derision, mocked him, etc. They asked him what was in his cloak. He had a sudden idea - based on tales floating around that there were ancient golden tablets hidden. This fanciful idea had captured the imaginations of fortune hunters, etc. He said he had found the golden tablets. They believed him and asked him to show them the tablets. He said no - if they saw them, they would die, and took the sand back to his room and locked it away in a trunk. He was laughing at how he had duped them, bragging about it to his doctor. He and his father were well known to be con men. I wasn't standing up for him, but just that the Angel came first then the plates..... The temple worship of the Mormons is way too close to what goes on in the Masonic Temples to think it came from God. Joseph Smith Sr. was a master mason; I'd have to look up if Jr. was or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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