who actually is responsible for written and creating the Quran ?

[SINNERSAVED]

24 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

I'm sorry but it is.

 

no proof ? that's what I thought ? please don't say things with out proving them , we are to prove if not, its all personal opinion, it confuses people,

so you have derailed this thread ?

[thereselittleflower]

1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said:

can you prove your accusation, ? or is this your opinion again, prove this , anyone can say anything about anything, so show me that this link is what you say it is, can you do that ?

Maybe you should do some research before you promote liars and scam artists.

May I recommend you look up  Cornerstone Archives, Issue #53

• [His] story has created tremendous controversy: the Christian Reformed Church, Zondervan Publishers, and the Southern Baptist Sunday School Board have banned it front their bookstores. 

  Is Alberto's story true? No! Our intensive investigation reveals his police record, his investment schemes, his bad check‑writing, his contradictory testimony, his fabricated educational record, and his reported family abuse.

  Alberto Rivera, also known as Alberto Romero, has a history of legal entanglements. He is currently Involved in a court action In Southern California, accused of fraud. According to Cesar Ramirez, he gave Alberto over $2,000 to Invest In some property in Huntington Park, California. The property was never purchased. When Mr. Ramirez asked for his money back, Alberto gave him a donation slip for $2,0001 Ramirez has now sued him to recover his money.

  In 1965, a warrant for his arrest was issued in Hoboken, New Jersey, for writing bad checks. He also left debts in excess of $3,000.

  In October, 1967, Alberto went to work at the Church of God of Prophecy headquarters In Tennessee. Alberto began collecting funds for a college in Tarrassa, Spain. When the Church of God of Prophecy wrote the college to see if he was authorized to collect funds on their behalf, the church received the following reply: the college had given him a letter to collect funds, but only for the month of July. The school later discovered [he had lied about who he was] They reported he left debts which he had drawn in the name of the parish of San Lorenzo, and that the Spanish police were seeking him for "authentic swindles and cheats." Finally, they said no funds he raised had ever reached the college.

  In a letter to the Department of Justice, Rev. Charles Hawkins of the Church of God of Prophecy stated Alberto's bank had contacted them because he had written a check to Delta Air Lines on a closed account. In 1969 two warrants were issued against him in DeLand and Ormond Beach, Florida. The first was for the theft of a Bank‑Americard. The criminal Investigation division of the Bank of America reports he charged over $2,000 on the credit card. The second warrant was for the .'unauthorized use of an automobile." Alberto abandoned the vehicle in Seattle, Washington. From there he moved to Southern California.

 

• ...

  DIPLOMA MILL DEGREES

  Alberto commands great respect from many with his alleged numerous degrees including an N.D., a D.D., a Th.D., a Ph.D., and a master's in psychology. However, he is ambiguous when asked where he received these degrees. Alberto attended a seminary in Costa Rica (the Seminario Biblio Latinamericano) with a friend from Las Palmas, but he did not graduate. That friend, Rev. Plutarco Bonilla (a respected Christian leader in Central America), said that Alberto never finished high school in Las Palmas and that he was in the seminary's program for non‑high school graduates. The school in a letter said they were forced to expel Alberto for his "continual lying and defiance of seminary authority," The known chronology of his life does not allow time for him to have achieved the academic status he claims. When Rev. Wishart pressed Alberto concerning his degrees, Alberto admitted receiving them from a diploma mill in Colorado. This ended their relationship. Pastor Rassmussen (Faith Baptist Church in Canoga Park, California) also asked Alberto to substantiate some of his claims by submitting to a lie detector test. Alberto said he would: three limes appointments were made for him, three times he failed to appear.

  Alberto's past family relationships have been described negatively by those who knew them. He met his first "wife" in Costa Rica while working with the Methodist church. Rev. Bonilla says that Alberto was living there with a woman in the late 1950s but they weren't legally married: Alberto said God ordained their marriage. Alberto later claimed in an employment form that he and Carmen Lydia Torres were married on November 25, 1963. Their son Juan was born in Hoboken, New Jersey, in September, 1964, where Alberto was working with the Christian Reformed Church. A supervisor at the time, Rev. Edson Lewis, said that Alberto physically abused both Carmen Lydia and Juan. Less than a year after his birth, in July, 1965, Juan died in El Paso, Texas, where his parents had fled, after they wrote bad checks in New Jersey.

  His marriage relationship to Carmen Lydia was further complicated as described in the letter by Rev. Charles Hawkins (Church of God of Prophecy In Tennessee) to the U.S. Department of Justice. The letter stated that Alberto and Carmen Lydia's wedding was scheduled in Tennessee in 1968, but that Carmen Lydia missed the wedding, staying in Puerto Rico instead.

  Alberto then went to Puerto Rico and returned to the States with a new son, Alberto. Carmen Lydia followed them a few months later. This is according to former associate and roommate Rev. Daniel Abrego, who added that Alberto had left Carmen Lydia in Mexico when he returned to Spain in 1966. It is difficult to determine the whereabouts of the child Alberto today, but Rev. Abrego claims he was placed in a welfare home in Tennessee. They didn't have a child with them when they went to Florida in 1969.

  Alberto and Carmen Lydia had still another son, Luis Marx, early in 1969. While they were in Florida, their hosts said Luis Marx was mistreated. What happened to Luis Marx is unknown, but when Alberto left Florida for Seattle with the car and credit card. they no longer had the child with them. What happened to Carmen Lydia after Seattle is also unknown, but Alberto remarried in 1977 to Nury Frias, a woman, from the Dominican Republic. Whether he was ever legally married to and/or divorced from the other woman is unknown. At any rate, it is extremely damaging to Rivera's credibility to discover that he had two children (Juan and Alberto) in America during the time he was supposed to be a celibate priest in Europe!

And there's more.     

 

 

 

[thereselittleflower]

9 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

no proof ? that's what I thought ? please don't say things with out proving them , we are to prove if not, its all personal opinion, it confuses people,

so you have derailed this thread ?

Maybe - just maybe you should go back and read the thread?

 

 

 

[SINNERSAVED]

1 minute ago, thereselittleflower said:

Maybe - just maybe you should go back and read the thread?

 

NICE

[thereselittleflower]

6 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said:

NICE

I guess this is the wrong thread.

Here 

 

 

 

 

[SINNERSAVED]

4 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Maybe you should do some research before you promote liars and scam artists.

May I recommend you look up  Cornerstone Archives, Issue #53

• [His] story has created tremendous controversy: the Christian Reformed Church, Zondervan Publishers, and the Southern Baptist Sunday School Board have banned it front their bookstores. 

  Is Alberto's story true? No! Our intensive investigation reveals his police record, his investment schemes, his bad check‑writing, his contradictory testimony, his fabricated educational record, and his reported family abuse.

  Alberto Rivera, also known as Alberto Romero, has a history of legal entanglements. He is currently Involved in a court action In Southern California, accused of fraud. According to Cesar Ramirez, he gave Alberto over $2,000 to Invest In some property in Huntington Park, California. The property was never purchased. When Mr. Ramirez asked for his money back, Alberto gave him a donation slip for $2,0001 Ramirez has now sued him to recover his money.

  In 1965, a warrant for his arrest was issued in Hoboken, New Jersey, for writing bad checks. He also left debts in excess of $3,000.

  In October, 1967, Alberto went to work at the Church of God of Prophecy headquarters In Tennessee. Alberto began collecting funds for a college in Tarrassa, Spain. When the Church of God of Prophecy wrote the college to see if he was authorized to collect funds on their behalf, the church received the following reply: the college had given him a letter to collect funds, but only for the month of July. The school later discovered [he had lied about who he was] They reported he left debts which he had drawn in the name of the parish of San Lorenzo, and that the Spanish police were seeking him for "authentic swindles and cheats." Finally, they said no funds he raised had ever reached the college.

  In a letter to the Department of Justice, Rev. Charles Hawkins of the Church of God of Prophecy stated Alberto's bank had contacted them because he had written a check to Delta Air Lines on a closed account. In 1969 two warrants were issued against him in DeLand and Ormond Beach, Florida. The first was for the theft of a Bank‑Americard. The criminal Investigation division of the Bank of America reports he charged over $2,000 on the credit card. The second warrant was for the .'unauthorized use of an automobile." Alberto abandoned the vehicle in Seattle, Washington. From there he moved to Southern California.

 

• ...

  DIPLOMA MILL DEGREES

  Alberto commands great respect from many with his alleged numerous degrees including an N.D., a D.D., a Th.D., a Ph.D., and a master's in psychology. However, he is ambiguous when asked where he received these degrees. Alberto attended a seminary in Costa Rica (the Seminario Biblio Latinamericano) with a friend from Las Palmas, but he did not graduate. That friend, Rev. Plutarco Bonilla (a respected Christian leader in Central America), said that Alberto never finished high school in Las Palmas and that he was in the seminary's program for non‑high school graduates. The school in a letter said they were forced to expel Alberto for his "continual lying and defiance of seminary authority," The known chronology of his life does not allow time for him to have achieved the academic status he claims. When Rev. Wishart pressed Alberto concerning his degrees, Alberto admitted receiving them from a diploma mill in Colorado. This ended their relationship. Pastor Rassmussen (Faith Baptist Church in Canoga Park, California) also asked Alberto to substantiate some of his claims by submitting to a lie detector test. Alberto said he would: three limes appointments were made for him, three times he failed to appear.

  Alberto's past family relationships have been described negatively by those who knew them. He met his first "wife" in Costa Rica while working with the Methodist church. Rev. Bonilla says that Alberto was living there with a woman in the late 1950s but they weren't legally married: Alberto said God ordained their marriage. Alberto later claimed in an employment form that he and Carmen Lydia Torres were married on November 25, 1963. Their son Juan was born in Hoboken, New Jersey, in September, 1964, where Alberto was working with the Christian Reformed Church. A supervisor at the time, Rev. Edson Lewis, said that Alberto physically abused both Carmen Lydia and Juan. Less than a year after his birth, in July, 1965, Juan died in El Paso, Texas, where his parents had fled, after they wrote bad checks in New Jersey.

  His marriage relationship to Carmen Lydia was further complicated as described in the letter by Rev. Charles Hawkins (Church of God of Prophecy In Tennessee) to the U.S. Department of Justice. The letter stated that Alberto and Carmen Lydia's wedding was scheduled in Tennessee in 1968, but that Carmen Lydia missed the wedding, staying in Puerto Rico instead.

  Alberto then went to Puerto Rico and returned to the States with a new son, Alberto. Carmen Lydia followed them a few months later. This is according to former associate and roommate Rev. Daniel Abrego, who added that Alberto had left Carmen Lydia in Mexico when he returned to Spain in 1966. It is difficult to determine the whereabouts of the child Alberto today, but Rev. Abrego claims he was placed in a welfare home in Tennessee. They didn't have a child with them when they went to Florida in 1969.

  Alberto and Carmen Lydia had still another son, Luis Marx, early in 1969. While they were in Florida, their hosts said Luis Marx was mistreated. What happened to Luis Marx is unknown, but when Alberto left Florida for Seattle with the car and credit card. they no longer had the child with them. What happened to Carmen Lydia after Seattle is also unknown, but Alberto remarried in 1977 to Nury Frias, a woman, from the Dominican Republic. Whether he was ever legally married to and/or divorced from the other woman is unknown. At any rate, it is extremely damaging to Rivera's credibility to discover that he had two children (Juan and Alberto) in America during the time he was supposed to be a celibate priest in Europe!

And there's more.     

http://web.archive.org/web/20051202084221/http://www.cornerstonemag.com/pages/show_page.asp?228

 

 

HEY MY SISTER . let me tell you of another story of a innocent man found guilty of blasphemy ?

 He was a simple man coming to the people, to tell them that God loves them ,and that we should see, how much this father in heaven loves us, that I will come to share the glory and holiness with you , for I know that you are separated by your sins ,and in need of a bridge back, =priest , and I will be that bridge, ( high priest,) ....for you  so that you may have life, and I will lay it down for you , when the teachers of the law ,the Pharisees will, lie and hate me, and tell the roman empire to find Him guilty and to crucify Him,

 and so they crucified the son of God , that was right in from of there faces, talking face to face , and they killed Him,

but He suffered a condemn mans verdict, and judgement , but He was not guilty at all, in fact He was not even sinful, He was spot less, and ready , to die and lay His life down, for you and for me , that we would seek God and be forgiven , and to tell others of the love that told us what love is about before He was killed,

so I hope this helps, for there is many accused and condemned to death and in prison, today,  for doing nothing at all,

do you think prison has only the guilty people behind bars , ? just a thought, blessings to you sister thereselittle flower

[thereselittleflower]

You're actually comparing a scam artist to Christ?    o.0     o.0     o.0  

[FresnoJoe]

The Scam Artist

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

And The Prince Of Peace

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

Bless HIS Holy Name

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Willa]

On 12/24/2015 at 10:37 AM, SINNERSAVED said:

do you know that this reminds me of how the Mormons also got started , from a dream that joseph smith had by a spirit , or something like that, is this how religions or groups are started, how do you place your faith in these type of events,

so how did the Christian belief start up , from he roman catholic, or another person that had a dream  ? really how did we get started then in what we believe?

John 15:26-27 NKJV   But when the Helper (Comforter) comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth Who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.  And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning.   1 John 1:1-2  That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concernting the Word of life---the life was manifested and wehave seen, and bear witness, and delare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us---.  2 Peter 1:16-18  For we did nott follow conningly devised fabeles when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His Majesty.  For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory:  This is My Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."  And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. 

It is believed that Matthew recorded his own book, the Mark recorded the words of Peter, that Luke interviewed the apostles and came up with a composit, and that John recorded his own.  Each did so by inspiration of the Holy Spirit who caused them to remember all that occurred and was spoken.

On 12/24/2015 at 1:04 PM, other one said:

I wasn't standing up for him, but just that the Angel came first then the plates.....

The temple worship of the Mormons is way too close to what goes on in the Masonic Temples to think it came from God. Joseph Smith Sr. was a master mason; I'd have to look up if Jr. was or not.

 

When they were in Missouri the mormons took over a Massonic Temple and, using the Scottish Rite, they stole the story and the rituals, I am told.  I do know that anyone can become a member of a Masonic order, christians, Jews, or any faith but for Mormons..  They had been kicked out of the organization and are blackballed. This was under the leadership of Joseph Smith Jr.  When I have asked Mormon missionaried about this, they have not denied it but just say that they don't claim to be the only ones who have the "truth".    Such deception!.  I have read portions of the secret books.  They sound very mystical and nonsensical for the most part.  But pharases stood out to me, such as that they should not reveal all to new members.  Only on the higher levels do they reveal the deeper secrets.   That is why young people and members who have not proceeded to other ranks do not think there is any evil in masonry.    There was a film called "The Godmakers" that was very informative.

[SINNERSAVED]

6 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

You're actually comparing a scam artist to Christ?    o.0     o.0     o.0  

 you have twisted another, derail another thread ?