SINNERSAVED Posted January 3, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2016 the Law of Moses which is the first five books , called the Torah, so when was the Torah put away and Grace of Yashua takes over, ? do we take one covenant and remove it and completely bring in another, and it wipes all from the first completely out ? I think this is a Big misunderstanding , and many are reading in too hard to make Grace more then it is , for do we even know , how many of the different Laws is talked about in acts alone, one is the , law of sin and death , and I believe I am saved by grace for my salvation, of sins and death , but all the rest still stands, how can anyone say we are covered by Grace , and yet remove the law, ? I know you will say we cannot live under the law for the punishments are with that, that is not what I am talking about , I am talking everything to be of the law of moses , and grace, to cover what it needs to cover, I think many are using it to justify every thing, what do you say ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted January 3, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 30 minutes ago, SINNERSAVED said: Grace the gift of salvation, through Jesus Christ the son of God, to atone for the sins of the world , for forgiveness of Sins, and to conquer the grave and sin and death once and for all, this is what grace does, it covers and forgives, and it overcomes death , so it was for the LAW of SIN and DEATH, for the law of moses, is not abolished, nor is it obsolete, or pushed away as non valid, it is still valid so who decides as believers how the law is put away and grace covers all. why would we want to put away the law, for now , by Gods mercy, the law of God which is the law from moses given to Him by God and called TORAH, is now written in the hearts and mines of the people that love and is filled with the holy spirit , so with that, we as individuals , are saved by grace, and are equippt with knowledge and wisdom to know Gods will, but it is up to the individual to word out His /Her belief and salvation with a righteous and just God, for if we are not in tuned with ,what we should do with our bodies and minds in service for the lord as servants, bond servants, then we need to read , and see what our responsibilities and duties are to be used as vessels for God, in this world of trials and tribulation, what gets me is that every one like Omegaman said , wants out of here , and not do any work for the kingdom, let someone else do it, if we are not the salt and the light and the hands and feet of Jesus , then who is going to be doing the work to save people and be with them as times come against us, we refuse to look at the believers before us, ........ they were set on fire, and tortured and feed to the lions for entertainment , and you now sit in your nice home in your big, chair ,watching football or drama fashions on your big screen T.V and drive your nice cars , and then say , god is good , and I am not going to do anything to help the kingdom , or lift a finger to the calling that is to be persecuted for righteousness , to be killed for your faith in Jesus , where is that fire in you all, and when do you get off the big chair, and go help someone, or share Jesus , we live like kings and queens and if the car don't start it is about God is teaching me a lesson today ? we are soft, and if we stay on this all you can eat , nothing to do with building and coming forth to help in lives being saved then stay on the chair, and say ,lord ,lord don't you remember me , I was sitting around watching football , but I went to church on sunday , and I did not do anything for you , but I am saved right ? thereselittleflower said.............................. The law is part of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant was made obsolete and passing away. The scriptures say the Old Covenant was: abrogated annulled cancelled deprived of its authority and power by God destroyed. How do I get to that understanding? By taking a hard look at what Paul said, looking at what words mean in the original as well as English I found this: Hbr 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Hbr 8:7 ¶ For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Hbr 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hbr 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. Hbr 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. obsolete, old and about to be abrogated, repealed, annulled, cancelled, abolished by authority Now that which decayeth obsolete, old and about to be abrogated, repealed, annulled, cancelled, abolished by authority and waxeth old failing from age, obselecent, being deprived its of force and authority by God [is] ready to vanish away. be destroyed I'll explain how I get this in the next post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINNERSAVED Posted January 3, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 6 Topic Count: 150 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,195 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 2,409 Days Won: 14 Joined: 07/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: I am well aware of these scripture you bring to light, and I thank you for that, but lets go to Hebrews 8:10 He will put His laws into their minds, and write them in their hearts, for the old was when He had to lead them by the hand, there was no Holy spirit , until the departure of Jesus into the heaven which then the Holy spirit was brought to man, and so we have what was not possible before for now we have Jesus , and this is now possible, but it does not say that the whole law is put away , it is only the law of sin and death which was made by the old and unable to be carried out today , for we have grace, so we have grace yes . and we still have the law of moses ..yes so there is nothing new under the sky, many want to use this to say the law is removed, but it is not, ' just like all the other debates and the opposite views we see it is one person reading scripture ne way as it is to them , and another reading scripture as it is intended, so we have all these different interpretations, so we go back to scripture to interpret scripture, and do not take it out of context, and read it through , not just taking pieces of it, it all of this we need to keep in mind, this, Jesus Yashua said, I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill, and until heaven and eart passes away , not one jot or tittle shall be added or taken away , so we are firm that Yashua is not here to rewrite law, not here to desolve it , but He is here to really magnify it , and place it in our hearts and mind , where it was once written for the people to see, , we only have to think and share our love from our hearts, this is a now mind over matter as you could say where it was a hands on or flesh made ordinance, it is now a spiritual law ,placed in our hearts and mine, and we that are filled , draw to this, and follow and obey its grab on us , we are the light and the salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 3, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,193 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,918 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted January 3, 2016 John 5:15-18 15 The man went away, and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well. 16 And for this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." NASB When Jesus was accused of working on the sabbath, he simply admitted that yes he was.... no excuses or talking about good work and bad work, just admitted to working on the sabbath. So if the old Covenant laws are valid, we are all going to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted January 3, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2016 5 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said: Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: I am well aware of these scripture you bring to light, and I thank you for that, but lets go to Hebrews 8:10 He will put His laws into their minds, and write them in their hearts, for the old was when He had to lead them by the hand, there was no Holy spirit , until the departure of Jesus into the heaven which then the Holy spirit was brought to man, and so we have what was not possible before for now we have Jesus , and this is now possible, but it does not say that the whole law is put away , it is only the law of sin and death which was made by the old and unable to be carried out today , for we have grace, so we have grace yes . and we still have the law of moses ..yes so there is nothing new under the sky, many want to use this to say the law is removed, but it is not, ' just like all the other debates and the opposite views we see it is one person reading scripture ne way as it is to them , and another reading scripture as it is intended, so we have all these different interpretations, so we go back to scripture to interpret scripture, and do not take it out of context, and read it through , not just taking pieces of it, it all of this we need to keep in mind, this, Jesus Yashua said, I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill, and until heaven and eart passes away , not one jot or tittle shall be added or taken away , so we are firm that Yashua is not here to rewrite law, not here to desolve it , but He is here to really magnify it , and place it in our hearts and mind , where it was once written for the people to see, , we only have to think and share our love from our hearts, this is a now mind over matter as you could say where it was a hands on or flesh made ordinance, it is now a spiritual law ,placed in our hearts and mine, and we that are filled , draw to this, and follow and obey its grab on us , we are the light and the salt. He said not one jot nor tittle would pass away until all (the law) was fulfilled. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled all the law. The condition for it passing away was met. Then Paul tells us it indeed was passing away. From the thread you took my post above and replied to I went into that verse looking at the key words in the original language and there it is so clear there is no room for debate about what Paul said. And it matches exactly what Jesus said about not one jot or tittle would pass away till all the law was fulfilled- and He fulfilled all the law. Jesus gave the condition, He met the condition, and Paul announced its final end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 3, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,193 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,918 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted January 3, 2016 amen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted January 3, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2016 14 hours ago, SINNERSAVED said: the Law of Moses which is the first five books , called the Torah, so when was the Torah put away and Grace of Yashua takes over, ? do we take one covenant and remove it and completely bring in another, and it wipes all from the first completely out ? I think this is a Big misunderstanding , and many are reading in too hard to make Grace more then it is , for do we even know , how many of the different Laws is talked about in acts alone, one is the , law of sin and death , and I believe I am saved by grace for my salvation, of sins and death , but all the rest still stands, how can anyone say we are covered by Grace , and yet remove the law, ? I know you will say we cannot live under the law for the punishments are with that, that is not what I am talking about , I am talking everything to be of the law of moses , and grace, to cover what it needs to cover, I think many are using it to justify every thing, what do you say ? The law of Moses is a part of a covenant. It is not so much the violation and an individual law, but break one law in the Mosaic covenant, then a person has violated the covenant. The covenant includes a court of judges who determine the punishment based on the Mosaic law. Take away the judges which are a part of the Mosaic covenant, and take away the punishment prescribed by the Mosaic law, and instead substitute what Jesus did, the Mosaic covenant is then changed. But, it is against the Mosaic law to add to it, or take anything away from it. So, what you are proposing is a violation of the Mosaic law and covenant. Deut 4:1 “Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you may live and go in and take possession of the land which the Lord, the God of your fathers, is giving you. 2 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Jesus died to establish and offer a New Covenant, so that one did not violate the Mosaic covenant by altering it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 3, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,193 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,918 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted January 3, 2016 Who said , Grace covers all of the law of Moses ? Me,,,,, I did.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted January 3, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, other one said: Who said , Grace covers all of the law of Moses ? Me,,,,, I did.... I think God said it first Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; This word "ordinances" is interesting: δόγμα dógma, dog'-mah; from the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):—decree, ordinance. the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1378&t=KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 3, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,193 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,918 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted January 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said: I think God said it first Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; This word "ordinances" is interesting: δόγμα dógma, dog'-mah; from the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):—decree, ordinance. the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1378&t=KJV he didn't say who said it first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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