Natural facts Vs Biblical truth

[LuftWaffle]

I'm afraid this thread is full of pious sounding falsities.

If God is Truth, then it's simply false to say that biblical truth is something different to the way the world is, and the Bible doesn't expect this of Christians. In fact just the opposite. Christ's physical resurrection is probably the biggest piece of evidence there is.

This whole anti-intellectualism and the notion that faith is believing without evidence or contrary to evidence isn't based on the bible but instead was popularised by the Romanticism movement in the early 1800s and unfortunately pervades Christianity to this day. The bible clearly command us to give reasons for our trust in God, and the Bible is full of instances where God showed great signs and wonders to demonstrate His power and authority.

The idea that there are separate truths, namely God's truth and natural truth makes the whole concept of truth meaningless and arbitrary. To say that God is truth would simply mean that what's true for God is true to Him only. This is nothing more than relativism.

All truth is God's truth!

Forgive me if my response is rather spirited, I don't mean to hurt people feelings, but it saddens me to see how many Christians have bought into this 19th century notion that's been hurting Chistianity for more than a century.

I say this because it's precisely for this reason that Christians think that they needn't bother giving any thought to their beliefs, good answers to non-believers who ask questions and not bothering to engage thoughtfully with the world in which they're supposed to be salt and light.

 

[FresnoJoe]

On 3/15/2016 at 2:49 AM, LuftWaffle said:

This whole anti-intellectualism and the notion that faith is believing without evidence or contrary to evidence isn't based on the bible

For The Want Of A Microscope, Germs Don't Exist

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.  Hebrews 11:1

And For The Want Of The Holy Spirit, The Bible Is Closed

For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. Isaiah 29:10-12

[Eha]

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 0:01 PM, Alan Hales said:

And faith in what the Bible says, will always overrule natural facts

natural facts show simply our condition. if we look on hurting, painful natural facts (sick, hungry and so on) faith doesnt not "overrule" those facts. it doesnt work that way.
shortly - if you are sick, hungry, too poor to pay yours appartment, what ever, in the Bible is described WHY it is so. Faith simply help us accept those rules and act right. 
physical world is simply reflection of spiritual world. 
spiritual rules affects our every day physical life.
faith is believe that is so , thats why it help us accept truth, act right and let Father fix that "natural fact"
healing, get money to pay, get food when hungry..
we call them " miracles" simply because we dont know well those rules.

very shortly that Father did reveal to me so far. 

[Eha]

On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 at 9:49 AM, LuftWaffle said:

This whole anti-intellectualism and the notion that faith is believing without evidence or contrary to evidence isn't based on the bible

yes
Father say - not just believe, but believe IN TRUTH. 

truth - something that HAVE proofs witnesses FACTS.

agree and glad that you seek truth not just with heart (Father NEVER teach that) but WITH MIND> logic.
+1 +1 +1 !!!

[existential mabel]

On 21/01/2016 at 10:01 AM, Alan Hales said:

The difference between natural facts and Biblical truths.

 

A natural fact is, “Information used as evidence”, for instance, a pain in a person’s body,

Is informing them that it’s evident that something is wrong. [And that is a natural fact].

But the Biblical truth says, by the stripes of Jesus we are healed, Jesus has taken our sicknesses,

Infirmities and pains. And faith in what the Bible says, will always overrule natural facts.

 

Once as I was scrolling through the TV channels, I saw Sherlock Holmes, and he said to Watson,

“We have been looking at the facts, we need to look at the truth”.

What are you looking at today, The natural facts, or the Biblical truths?.

hello Alan

Edited March 16, 2016 by existential mabel

[existential mabel]

On 16/02/2016 at 7:11 PM, Willa said:

There may be some error floating around Christian circles in this area.  There are "name it and claim it" people who say that in spite of the pain, people should claim that they are healed.  So once I did this because they told me my healing is done in heaven so I should confess it as though it were already done.  So I did this in spite of considerable neck pain which prevented me from moving my head.  As I walked home God started talking to my heart, telling me I had lied.  He told me that like a witness in a court, I could only testify to things I had seen, heard, felt, smelled etc.  So I repented of my sin as I walked.  Within a few hours the pain and stiffness had left me.  

A doctor cannot investigate symptoms unless he is informed of them.  If we go to the doctor and claim we are fine and nothing hurts but we have a broken bone and are experiencing muscle contractions and we hide the swelling, the bone won't be set and won't repair itself properly.  I can't imagine the Good Physician healing us if we lie to Him either.  Since one of the Hebrew names of God is the God Who heals, we should always acknowledge Him as the ultimate healer.  It is God Who created our bodies in a such a way that they can repair themeselves to a large extent most of the time.  But help from man is sometimes necessary so that they heal correctly.  Sometime God does miracles and repairs things that may take several surgeries, and even does it better.  But this is not always the case.  Our God is full of grace and tender mercies.

yes the

Quote

"name it and claim it" people who say that in spite of the pain, people should claim that they are healed.

they are the kind of people that drive people away imo. for me i felt an utter failure. so where do i go with that? well i tell you where i went with that i left the church because i felt such a failure and i refused to play the lets pretend that everything is fine game. so the only rational and integral choice i could make was a sharp exit.

thanks Willa for this post. its all about truth and that is hard when the church is insistent that everything and everyone has to be fine. all it ended up doing was robbing my peace and that was nearly 2 years ago now.

Edited March 16, 2016 by existential mabel

[existential mabel]

On 17/02/2016 at 10:14 PM, Vendtre said:

Why does it have to be a choice between the two?  God gave us the natural facts and a brain for a reason.  To ignore the natural facts is to ignore the creation of God.

interesting point vebdtre there needs to be balance in all things and why should this be any different? man and his incessant need to compartmentalise...   we work from  a backdrop of the natural. to what we can see to make sense of the biblical truth we cant see.

when i think about it Jesus had to use parables as man's mind is too dull to comprehend it. so i wonder if God gave us the natural as a kind of parable just a thought..

Edited March 16, 2016 by existential mabel

[existential mabel]

On 15/03/2016 at 7:49 AM, LuftWaffle said:

I'm afraid this thread is full of pious sounding falsities.

If God is Truth, then it's simply false to say that biblical truth is something different to the way the world is, and the Bible doesn't expect this of Christians. In fact just the opposite. Christ's physical resurrection is probably the biggest piece of evidence there is.

This whole anti-intellectualism and the notion that faith is believing without evidence or contrary to evidence isn't based on the bible but instead was popularised by the Romanticism movement in the early 1800s and unfortunately pervades Christianity to this day. The bible clearly command us to give reasons for our trust in God, and the Bible is full of instances where God showed great signs and wonders to demonstrate His power and authority.

The idea that there are separate truths, namely God's truth and natural truth makes the whole concept of truth meaningless and arbitrary. To say that God is truth would simply mean that what's true for God is true to Him only. This is nothing more than relativism.

All truth is God's truth!

Forgive me if my response is rather spirited, I don't mean to hurt people feelings, but it saddens me to see how many Christians have bought into this 19th century notion that's been hurting Chistianity for more than a century.

I say this because it's precisely for this reason that Christians think that they needn't bother giving any thought to their beliefs, good answers to non-believers who ask questions and not bothering to engage thoughtfully with the world in which they're supposed to be salt and light.

h

thanks Luftwaffle for your post. it is always good to go back to the source

Quote

The bible clearly command us to give reasons for our trust in God, and the Bible is full of instances where God showed great signs and wonders to demonstrate His power and authority.

this fills me with positivity and that is a rarity. so your post speaks to me at least..but i will need to check out what you say for myself...

Quote

I say this because it's precisely for this reason that Christians think that they needn't bother giving any thought to their beliefs, good answers to non-believers who ask questions and not bothering to engage thoughtfully with the world in which they're supposed to be salt and light.

 

your post is very thought provoking in a good way. and i am glad that you have used this opportunity to flag up these things. in the west, imo, we have the fat sheep syndrome too much information that is constant. that we are supposed to believe without testing the spirit it almost seems like and some day that sheep in gonna belch, burp http://emojipedia.org/emoji-one/2.1/sheep/

 

[Alan Hales]

29 minutes ago, existential mabel said:

yes the

they are the kind of people that drive people away imo. for me i felt an utter failure. so where do i go with that? well i tell you where i went with that i left the church because i felt such a failure and i refused to play the lets pretend that everything is fine game. so the only rational and integral choice i could make was a sharp exit.

thanks Willa for this post. its all about truth and that is hard when the church is insistent that everything and everyone has to be fine. all it ended up doing was robbing my peace and that was nearly 2 years ago now.

If God told you that you lied about confessing you are healed, The He told a lie in His word, [The Bible]. Because [1], Jesus said we would have what we say, Mk 11: 23.

[2] God said Jesus is the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Heb 3: 1.

One of Jesus present day Ministries, is to bring to pass whatever we say, [As long as it's in line with the Bible]. 

The Greek meaning for, "Confession", Is "Agreeing with God, [The Bible], and saying the same as God, And God said, By the stripes of Jesus we  WERE [past tense] healed. Jesus has TAKEN our sicknesses and infirmities, So we have to agree with what the Bible says, and confess it, Then Jesus will bring it to pass.

But we have to believe what we say, Mk 11: 24, Which means, we must believe that we have it, before we feel or see it.

God doesn't tell lies, So it wasn't God who told you that you lied, It was the devil trying to deceive you.

[Alan Hales]

40 minutes ago, existential mabel said:

yes the

they are the kind of people that drive people away imo. for me i felt an utter failure. so where do i go with that? well i tell you where i went with that i left the church because i felt such a failure and i refused to play the lets pretend that everything is fine game. so the only rational and integral choice i could make was a sharp exit.

thanks Willa for this post. its all about truth and that is hard when the church is insistent that everything and everyone has to be fine. all it ended up doing was robbing my peace and that was nearly 2 years ago now.

We don't deny sickness, That is a wrong thing to do, Even God doesn't deny problems, He told Jehoshaphat that he had a Great problem, 2 Chron 20: 15. But He also gave the answer to the problem.

And the answer to sickness, is, Isaiah 53: 3--5. Matt 8: 16--17. 1 Pet 2: 24.

So as we agree with God, and say the same things as what God says, AND BELIEVE IT, we shall be healed. I have both seen and experienced it for myself, as everyone who has been taught this truth, has been healed as they stood on God's word.

The word will work for those who work it AND BELIEVE IT.